support thread for those of us having to 'co-parent' with a narc or very difficult exh

[besshope]

Step this way...
May I start of with a great big ROAR of frustration at having spent many years having to co-parent with someone who (after he left me for OW) has gone out of his way to make my life as difficult as possible. I know there are many of us, so here's a space to share frustrations, tips and experiences.

debbs yet another familiar story, even down to the wording. It's like they've got a handbook. So sorry you have to deal with that.

Any ideas on how to deal with ex encouraging DC to be naughty? It's becoming more and more noticeable after contact. I've seen this done with other DC in the family too, which disgusts me. My DC too young really to understand what's happening but said things that show it's a deliberate move by him.

I've not said a word to him, if I let on it's working he'll just turn it up. But how to deal with it with DC? If I say well dad's wrong to tell you to do that then I'm criticising him, but the behaviour is bad enough that I can't just ignore it. I always try to be civil towards him and talk about him positively but sweet Mary Jane he's a twat.

Debbs why no maintenance? Get that one sorted asap, CMS tomorrow!

Sorry that should have said Has anyone got any ideas...

Sorry for awful typing in general, am a teensy bit worn out from dealing with above and having to be face to face with that pathetic excuse for a man today.

greencarbluecar depends on the ages of the dcs but I'd say something along the lines of that's not okay here, or these are the rules in our house. If you criticise their dad they may tell him and then he'll know you're bothered by it (and do more of it) like you say. But at the same time you can't accept the behaviour. If you look up parallel parenting you might find some tips.
Basically treat it like two separate sets of rules in the two households

bess thank you, off to google parallel parenting . Very good point about him hearing about it if I criticise him, I hadn't thought of that but it would spur him on and play right up to his poor victim fantasy. I'm not sure if he doesn't see who is really most affected by this kind of thing, or just doesn't care.

And thanks for starting this thread, it's awful that so many of us are dealing with this but I've found it comforting to be able to communicate with people who get it

thanks greencarbluecar I agree it's good to know there are others who get it or are in or been through similar situations.
If he's like my ex then it mainly revolves around him, so he would think he was most affected by any given situation. Not worth your effort trying to figure it out, just look after yourself and reduce stress for yourself where possible (and that is sometimes very hard/impossible)

So lawyer sent ex an email 3 nearly 4 weeks ago about maintenance and how I will be moving back to the family home...... gave him 14 days to reply until I contact csa and he done any work to the home before moving. Fast forward to yesterday contact csa they sent him a letter I got an angry phone call from his dad. How do you expect him to pay maintenance when he is paying the mortgage in the house. (Now the email stated as of the 1st of October I would pay all the bills for the house and he would only pay maintenance. But I'm the bad guy here as he is in nearly 5k debt. It's not from providing for his kids he hasn't even bought them a bloody nappy since he left!!
Then his mum yesterday gives me the whole he is in so much debt I'm taken a loan out to clear it etc etc. Like I am putting their darling son out for having to pay maintenance. I just feel like I'm hitting my head off a brick wall with them all why do I need to know he is in debt? He's not spent a penny on his way kids

I tell DD that although daddy allows her to do such-and-such, I do not allow her. When she was younger my ex would encourage her to punch him then acted surprised when I needed to get help for her increasingly violent behaviour... Urgh.

Greencarblue - I've had to do similar to Besshope. My kids are preteens but are allowed to get away with all sorts at their dads. They get a gentle reminder if they start playing up (usually my DS when he's asked to hand his phone over!) that they're back with me now and it's my house and my rules. It is hard for them sometimes, especially when they've been away for longer than a weekend ( I love the child free time but hate the two/three days it takes them to settle back in) but I'm consistent with it and they do settle quickly after EOW contact x

Thanks all, bess you've got it absolutely right that it's all about him (makes sense, everything else is!) and switching myself off from trying to understand it is what I need to do. I was doing quite well with that, but then he pulls another stunt and it sets me back. chloe that's good to hear, there's always a difficult period on return (much younger DC) and I do worry about how hard it must be but I have to hope that it'll improve with time.

Natsku that's one of the things he's doing, among other antisocial behaviours he's encouraging, doubtless in a 'play' context. It's just appalling, guess it comes back to what someone (sorry, on phone and can't remember who!) upthread said about them hating us more than they love their DC.

But I'm not going to waste my energy trying to work it out! Onwards and upwards

Im another one 2 years down the line coming up to final hearing - just been ditched by sols - they kept telling me they got this but at the same time I'm highly suspicious - my situation complicated - X manipulating all the way - he's well respected in profession I'm the crazy wife - goaded me in early days then turned tables and accused me of harassment -twice - now get why he uses direct access barrister so can edit information in his favour- I am continually playing catch up. Has just flouted contact arrangements again to suit himself and when I contact his solicitor she no longer acts on this and I am to sort it out with him direct. I'm pretty sure she will be acting again when I want to take the kids on holiday. Kids are caught in the middle ( teens) I do not believe in saying nothing otherwise I'm setting them up for thinking his behaviour is " Normal" I didn't know my marriage ( 20 years) was abusive until I filed for divorce. He had affair left for OW but I had to trust him he would sort things out. Kids are suffering I fear for their long term mental health - dshas been referred to pcamhs but refused to attend X says I'm labelling kids. It's a f@@king nightmare -RL do not understand -they say try this try that -it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference as there is no compromise. I wish I could say it will all end at 16 but it won't because he wants to control college etc but does nothing until I do and then objects to whatever I do. This behaviour really needs to be out in the open it destroys kids, judges, legal need to catch on Someone asked why they are like this - goes back to childhood - spoiled by mother bullied by father in my case -grow up ineffective but too scared to sort themselves out & deal with issues -much easier to blame everyone else. Well done for starting this thread. Keep strong ladies. Know this is all down to them and that you are dealing with the impossible. X

Evening all, just thought I'd share my latest blood pressure rising tale with you.

My daughter starts senior school this week. It so happens that the day she begins, the night before is that on which my dc sleep over with their dad. This started a few weeks ago and has been fine. He drops them home early the next morning.

I mentioned to my dd a few days ago that obviously this week she would see her dad but not stay the night. She told him this today, and on arriving home told me that dad had said she would be staying the night with him. I explained that it wasn't about what either he or I wanted, but what was best for her. She got very upset, saying could I text him because he would be angry and she didn't therefore want to tell him.

I explained that I had stopped texting because he was aggressive towards me, but that of course I would do so and she wasn't to worry about it anymore. We later had another chat where I explained why she needed to be home that night. She understood and agreed. I said that none of her friends would be having a sleepover, anywhere, before starting their new school.

So now I have to text. I will make it clear that I am doing so on her behalf and because she is afraid of his angry reaction. His anger/temper has been an issue with him for a long time. I will get a nasty, spiteful text in reply. The irony is I had been contemplating how we could best share her first day. As usual he's ruined any idea of co-operation.

My dd and I are having a special day out tomorrow to mark the start of her new school. I will not send the text until it is over as I know it will spoil my day. I am feeling very calm because I have now accepted that I will never be able to co-parent with him. As the pp said, we are dealing with the impossible. I can't spend the rest of my life allowing these events to upset me. I just have to deal with them in whatever way best suits my children.

Hello everyone, I hope you have had a good day. I'd like to say Hi and ask if anyone is currently living with the narc? I am for various reasons xx.

Question:

How did you cope with the 'death' of the fictional character you had lived so much?

I have to admit I'm finding it extremely hard.

Frog: do you mean the character you had "loved" so much ?

Yes, flipping autocorrect

Not living with the narc in my life, Beel, thank the sweet Lord. Honestly, escape if you can, even if it means gnawing your own leg off.

Frog, it took me a while and a lot of self-reproach. I read somewhere or other that whether or not this "character" was real, your feelings were still real, so there was something genuine and true in amongst the whole mess.

ExH is currently messing with dd(8)'s head by not replying to any of her phone messages. It's been days now. She's speculating that maybe he lost his phone or maybe's he's been hurt or kidnapped or something, but I've just had a snoop on Facebook and he's still posting to friends (responding to their admiring comments about photos of him and dd, ironically enough). Neither dd nor I know if he will turn up for contact on Saturday.

As far as I'm concerned, I don't particularly mind if he disappears from the face of the earth, but it's a headfuck for dd. I can only guess the motivation is some or all of the following:

a) Trying to bring dd into line by an indirect threat of withdrawing from her;
b) He bought her a phone (without consulting me, obviously) but no credit, and he might have decided to take calls from her phone only, not mine. He hasn't actually told either of us that, but is punishing her for not reading his mind, a favourite trick of his. I get a grand total of £6 per week from him through the CSA, and he'd be delighted to make me spend it all on phone credit;
c) Trying to build up evidence for a future claim in court that I'm blocking access. He did this once before - didn't turn up to contact or answer any phone calls/texts. I did think something might have happened to him so asked the police to do a welfare check, which he then claimed in court was police harassment and me making false allegations to the police about him.

And I resent that he's colonising my mental space by me even thinking about this. I don't care, but I hate seeing dd anxious and crying.

Biblio - that's really low, we can stomach their behaviour but when they hurt our children it's a whole other level. When you'd give your life for your child in a heartbeat it's unimaginable that a father can be so cruel. Some people say "Oh, they'll see what he's like when they're older". I don't find this a comfort. So, they get to lose their dad from their everyday life AND find out later he can be a real git ?!

My ex is good with regular contact and maintenance, so I'm hugely lucky in those respects. My main difficulty is that he point blank refuses to co-operate with me as a parent. This leads into Frogs question about how you cope with the death of the fictional character you had loved so much.

It's been over a year now and I still don't know if this side of him is actually really him. Alternatively, whether the real him is the one I knew but he is now so bitter and twisted because I ended things. I do believe he really loved me, but then if he did how could he have done the things that caused me to ask him to leave ? I want to think the real him is the one I knew, but then I miss "him" and feel so sorry for him. But alternatively I need to feel he was a different person really, else what does that mean about me, why would he be so cruel ?

Ultimately I think I'll just have to accept that I'll never know. He sent me a random text a few weeks back, asking what exactly had he done to make me not want him in my life anymore ? I thought my heart would break. The fact he doesn't know is baffling and unnerving, as though I was living with another person all those years. If he really doesn't, then it's heart breaking for him, and I can't see how he'll ever get over it.

Hi all. Can I join you please?

I am currently NC with the ex's narc parents (who live abroad currently).

I have been facilitating contact between ex and my DS for about two months. He's on his best behaviour at the moment, but is pushing for things to speed up when I don't think we're there yet. My solicitor is going to contact him re the arrangements, so I am expecting the backlash this Sunday at contact.

I have also found out that his current partner's family are heavily involved in drug cultivation and supply. So I will have to tackle that issue too - joy! Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Frog, in answer to your question about the fictional character, I think I got to a stage where I genuinely despised him because of his behaviour. It was then a further four - five months before I ended the relationship (due to constant suicide threats). By that point I had truly had enough of his bullshit. And another six months of harassment ensued until I contacted the police and went NC with him. I think I just lost all respect for him once his true self started to show, and overtime I ended up hating everything about him, to be blunt.

Are you struggling to get over the relationship? I think it's normal to grieve for what could have been/what we thought we had. It's very cathartic to write down a timeline of key events. It really made me realise what a shitbag he was.

Thanks for the sympathy, nice. I just don't know what to say to dd. I can reassure her that he's not dead/kidnapped (ha!), but all I can say that I don't know why he's not answering her and I don't think it's very nice, unless there's some reason we don't know about. It acknowledges how she's feeling, but it doesn't help much with the horrible feeling in the pit of her stomach she talks about.

Minnie, of course join in ("welcome" seems wrong, somehow...) Yikes to the drug side of things. Is he likely to understand why it's better to keep the dcs well away from that? Will he take it on board if you mention that it could create issues when legal arrangements are being made regarding child contact?

just need to vent - i am so sick and tired of having to deal with all this shit - have tried to reopen negotiations so that the kids can start their final year at school without the court case in mid october but I should know better by now - why on earth would he do something that is in the kids interests when it is not in his own. do i put my money where my mouth is and walk away now saving me two days in court or do i see it through - x is refusing to allow me to take kids abroad without his permission as DS has a school trip - not compulsory but has told me i will have to apply to court - ironically ive read he needs my permission re the school trip which he booked without discussing with me first. One day this shit will end - i have to keep telling myself!

Biblio - I wish I knew the answer as to what to say. My latest dilemma is that my dd (11) has told me that "dad gets angry and upset" if she passes a message from me that he doesn't like.

She knew that me texting him had become very difficult because he either ignores me or is very sharp and nasty in response. She saw some texts between us on his phone a while ago and said I've seen you've been arguing. She hadn't seen them all so misunderstood what had happened. They weren't abusive or personal so I sat her down and showed her the whole conversation. I explained this was why I avoided contacting him.

I have since written to him saying let's draw a line under the past, no grudges held on my side etc. Let's try and communicate better in the future so as not to involve the children. His response ? Absolutely nothing, not a word.

I speak positively of him, but now when push comes to shove I will say why I can't communicate with him. I have been as honest as I can with them about the situation, all the time trying to stress it's about me and him, not them. I will not however lie for him anymore. I acknowledged what my daughter said about him getting angry, and said I will go back to texting him when necessary.

I texted him twice this morning about our dd. I didn't have to, it was out of kindness about a situation I knew he would be feeling similar to me about. His response ? You've guessed it - nothing.

Maybe you should tell your dd that her dad may not be responding because he is cross/sad/upset about the whole situation, but not with her ? Perhaps she would feel slightly better knowing that he's safe and well but just not getting in contact at the moment. I know this opens a whole can of worms - will she be cross with you, will she question herself. Sometimes the not knowing is worse than the truth, but only you know your dd.

Backtothe80s _ vent away. Will the court case at least resolve a few issues ?

final hearing so yes - my stress levels are through the roof - im trying to battle on with no legal representation at the moment and i keep asking myself why am i doing this to myself

Thanks nice, and sorry your dd has this situation. I like the idea of emphasising to dd that it's not about her.

back - sorry about the court stuff.

Backto - you sound amazing, no legal representation ?! If you've come this far can you stomach another 8 weeks (I think you said October?). Could you think "he's doing this to me" instead, but look how bloody amazing you are, and fairly soon it will all have been worth it ?

Biblio - I'm a bit of a stuck record on this to my kids, about how it's about me and dad and not them. I have also emphasised however when I feel dad is making it all about him, and not them. When he's made an unreasonable request I will tell them that I've said no, it's not in their best interests, only daddy's. If they have to one day draw the conclusion that dad is sometimes selfish so be it. It's not what I want them to think, but I will still put them first.

The irony is I'm very flexible, and my free half hour solicitor was surprised that he had so much contact, she said "you're very good". He of course thinks I'm a wicked witch. When I pointed out to him once, after much provocation, that he had far more access than a court would award he said "Are you threatening me?" I think he'd love a day (or 2) in court, it would polish his victim halo