Daughter returning to abusive ex. Advice please!

[punchintheguts]

24 yrs ago my dd married a narcissistic abuser.dd was first attacked on honeymoon, and went downhill from there.
*he refused to work, my dd was breadwinner.
*he had numerous affairs which he threw in her face, even one with a family member. he completely isolated dd, only "allowing" her to mix with his parents.
*he tormented me for money.
*dd arrived crying, saying her said he would kill her if she left him, which was what she wanted to do, just 4 years into the marriage.

• then he told me in person he would kill dd if she ever left him. *he deleted phone messages/emails/texts from me, isolating her further. *She lost her legal career due to his financial abuse. *I made a 4 page statement to the domestic violence unit, but when they contacted dd, she said she was "okay"(then proceeded to become angry with me for reporting it) *then they emigrated abroad, him on a work visa as dd was in the middle of a bankruptcy" *his "work" lasted just one week, my dd was reduced to being an illegal cleaner to get by to support the "family" home and children. *he eventually threw dd out by the throat (her ds tried to protect her but took a beating himself)and moved his new GF in. *dd rang me in desperation, I immediately went to support her, paid the deposit for a home for her and the children.(needless to say he paid not one penny in support/maintenance) *eventually dd managed to establish a successful business and support herself and the children. *we secured her house with locks and chains on doors as he was still threatening her for money and turning up with new gf.. *eventually it all became to much for dd, and she took the children, left her house and came back to the uk, and "hid" in a rented house where she thought she would be safe. *he would constantly ring me threatening to kill dd, but my GD heard him, contacted him on facebook to "leave nan alone ".he laughed at her, told her in writing he would come to her place of work and give her a good hiding, and to mind her own business. *he found her in the rented house, attacked her sibling who was trying to support her. *eventually she returned back abroad , and life carried on. he followed her, but was eventually deported back to the uk, and there was peace for dd. *he financially abused a widow he found on a dating site, she found my number on his phone and rang me in a terrified state. *he then managed to convince his ex gf to marry him and went back to the country, and the abuse began for my dd. *my dd/me and the children lived in fear of his next move, but dd did her best, supported the family home and children. *eventually dd met a lovely divorced man, who adores her. he is the totally opposite of her monstrous abusive ex. *I had a police marker on my home, I was terrified he would turn up and cause turmoil. *through the middle of this I suffered a stroke, the constant worry and fear of what would happen next. *he has a son by his first marriage who is virtually nc with him. his father died recently, his dm is elderly, basically he is alone now. *his dsis in nc, she suffered for years at his hands. *he has a gf of 3 years. why am I explaining what He is doing?

I was so happy last night .She told me she was returning to the uk after all the years away

I am in my mid 70's now, and miss her and the grandchildren so much.
Then she dropped the bombshell.
SHE IS COMING BACK TO THE UK, TO BE WITH THE EX HUSBAND TO LIVE TOGETHER AS A FAMILY.
I felt my stomach in the old familiar churning.
I told her she is going back in the lions den.
A leopard doesn't change it's spots.
Why, after the years of misery, fear, and turmoil?
She "explained" that even though her partner, who would "do anything for her", the adult children won't have the same relationship with him as they would with their real(abusive dangerous) father.
I tried to remind her about the cunning/manipulative devious violent verbal and physical events over the last two decades, but her reply was
"He Has Changed Mum".
I said even though he tried to destroy our relationship he never managed to completely break it, but be sure I don't ever want any contact with him again.
She said it will be lovely to have Christmas's together as a family.
I replied "count me out" I can't go through the disastrous events again.
She replied, if it all starts up again she will leave straightaway.

Am I wrong?
Forgive and forget?
I can't do that.
advice please.

Asking someone else to forward them is still getting involved.

Just tell these people your D has made her decision, please you do not want to hear anything and do not want to get involved.

They can then do what they want with any proof.

OP your thread is heartbreaking. You sound like a lovely mum

Just to reinforce what othershe have said, your daughter is actually an enabler in this situation and is hooked on the drama of this man. You have no choice but to walk away.

Controversial view but she's also turning towards being an abuser given how she has no regard for her family's wellbeing or emotional health. The way she is trying to bully you is truly horrible. Your daughter isn't the person you thought she was. That's an unpleasant truth to face but you have to accept you cannot change her, just protect yourself and your family now.

She's getting nasty and manipulative because you as the new victim have learnt to say no. She's learnt how to play this game ftom her ex and is now trying to abuse you.

Stay firm and maintain your boundaries. You're setting a good example to the rest of the family on how to break the cycle of abuse.

There is no point sending 'proof' to your dd.

She knows exactly what he is like, SHE knows he will ruin her this time as he has before. SHE knows he will abuse her as he has before.

There is nothing you or anyone else can do or say to change her mind. SHE is completely controlled by him and will give up everything to be with him.

SHE will put him above and before her children, her family and friends. SHE will only come crawling back beginning for forgiveness when he has either hurt her or taken all her money.

The best you can do is ask people not to contact you or tell you about your DD as you can not go through the hurt again at your age.

Definitely do not pass the information on from the 3rd wife. If she has an agenda let her play it out.

Your dd will not thank you for the info. She will ignore it/manipulate it/revise it herself. Whatever she does with it, she will shoot the messenger and do exactly what she already intended upon doing.

Of course part of you wants to warn her. But what would you be telling her she doesn't already know ? And actually, she's already doing a similar thing to her current partner. It's a swamp you can avoid sinking into.

Be strong, you know it's for the best - YOUR best.

Hope you are ok OP, this is so very hard for you. I agree with the above posters, don't pass on the info, you are in a no win situation, because she is under this man's spell, and it could rebound horribly, pushing them even closer together. Your DD does not want the truth. You need to focus on staying strong for yourself and the rest of your family. Take care.

Perhaps write this thread in a letter form to your daughter :-/

thank you all for taking the time to respond.

I have finally blocked my dd's emails, she is hell bent on following back again down this destructive path.

my ds said via email dd is "upset" but that is all about all.
The facts are the facts, continuous torment and fear for over 20 years..
it is her choice there is nothing left for me to do.

it is truly heart breaking for me, not that I have lost her, but the knowledge that she is being pulled back into the spiral of abuse.

without a doubt once he has used and abused her , he will throw her away when the next victim is found.(complete patterns from the past)

I have told her all this in writing, and face to face, but it is similar to a cult, there is no space in her brain to see what he is doing.

I can truly do no more.
it's been a glorious day here, I met with a dear friend and we had a pub lunch on the beach.
then it all came flooding back, only 2 more days and she will be in the uk,

what a mess, but I won't let them get to me ever again.
it's finally over.

Stay strong, you're doing well.

There's currently a support thread for daughters with difficult mothers. I have been following your thread from the start, and am struck by the thought that you are the sort of mother lots of posters on there long for. You have nothing to reproach yourself for, as you say, you can truly do no more.

One of the most difficult things I have found about being a mother is that you can't make decisions for your children once they reach adulthood. You can advise, beg, plead,demand but when push comes to shove, it is their decision to make even when you know it's a bad one. Your decision to make is to not endure any of this madness, and make it very clear to your grandchildren that you can't support her through this but are very much there for them and that they too can make the decision not to be involved in her choices.
You can always keep the door open but only on the condition that she sees sense. Bless you, I can't even begin to imagine how you are feeling but you have to put yourself first in this. Lead the family by example, and show your grandchildren to be strong. Good luck xx

I don't think I've ever been more touched by a thread on MN.

OP you sound bloody amazing, you have prompted me to call my own mum and have a cry with her about the bullshit we deal with from my ex. It's really a wake up call about how much turmoil my mum has been through on my behalf.

I would never ever be with my ex again, I knew that before reading your thread but by golly you have reinforced that with a vengeance.

I hope that you can find the peace that you so obviously deserve op, that the pain coming through from your posts can ease knowing that you've done all you can. I wish you the very best. Thank you for sharing your feelings, it really has had a huge impact on me.

at least my thread has reinforced your decision nyron.

i'm glad my pain has helped someone.

the ripples that surround poor decisions can truly last for years.
it is devastating.

I was hoping against hope that this morning I would have received an email from dd, saying she realises it is the worst decision of her life (genuinely) and will not get on that plane tomorrow.

once dd is on that plane, all support/sympathy and worry by family is finished, she will truly be alone.
we have suffered so much over the years that as we are getting older, we are completely mentally and physically exhausted.

my angst is not for me at all.

dd believes she can finance the Canadian house/university fees etc, by running her business from the uk, but with the time difference it won't be long that the business begins to fail then she won't even have the income to run any house let alone support herself.

my ds won't be there to support the business, it will go downhill very quickly.

once the financing drops, the x will move on for sure and she will be stranded again, with nothing.

penniless and homeless, exactly the same as she was years ago, once the x threw her out.
it is truly history repeating itself.

it's watching dd falling into the guaranteed abuse again.

but it is not to be.

she is desperate to return to the uk, but in her mind she must keep the house in Canada running as the two sons live in it.

she won't be able financially to support 2 houses at the same time, one here, one in Canada.

the elder one, beginning a 4 year university course in September.

she is afraid that if she doesn't make the move back now, into the clutches of the x, she will miss her chance, " I am the wrong side of 50 mum" she said a few months ago.

in her mind, the only option is return to the narcissistic abusive x.

I pleaded with her to wait at least another year, to manage her possible return independently, but x is calling her, she thinks/believes it's her only option.

It says an awful lot about what a selfish cow your DD is as she has a lovely bloke now but clearly dismisses him as not good enough.

God, that's unbelievable :( I really want to hug you after going through all this terrible series of events

It seems to me that this excuse of a man has a certain power over your daughter, and brainwashes her, putting words in her mouth against you. It scares me how some people can be so cruel, real monsters with no conscience at all. And the way they can turn a normal human being into an empty shell of their former self.

You have been a great mother, I can only imagine how horrible it must be to feel so helpless in that situation. I really hope your daughter comes to her senses someday. But after years and years of being abused she seems to have lost her self esteem her self concept and her logic completely.

You've done everything in your power. Even though parents will always worry sick for their kids, it's time to take a step back and take care of yourself. At least in this unlucky situation you have a blessing in the form of your two loving granddaughters and that's a treasure.

I am beginning to severely doubt myself.

I have just received an email from dd.

she says she is coming back to the uk tomorrow as planned.
that I should forgive and forget the historic prolonged abuse of the past.

the x has changed.

that I am filled with hate and am causing her unnecessary dramas and acute distress.

that she didn't keep anything "secret" over the last few months when she was making plans with the x, as "it was a private matter and none of my business"

yet until I was told the truth it was never mentioned she was even in touch with him.(in fact she had asked me to supply approximate running costs for property in the uk which she led me to presume it was for her & present partner).

that she is doing this for her dc, so hopefully they will decide to follow her back to the uk and they will have a "family home" with both parents.

she can't see why we can't meet up, go shopping/meals out and girly things together.
very difficult with such a massive elephant in the room.

dd says I am negative , miserable and I should approach life on a more positive note.

considering that throughout the abusive marriage of many years I never spent one birthday/Christmas etc with either dd or gc's she now says I am their only grandparent and need to act like one.

it was a long lecture on how I should behave, and accept she is going back to the x, and leave everything in the past, it is now that's important.

so that told me again.

Oh Punch, what made you decide to unblock emails from your daughter, or am I misunderstanding how the blocking works ?

No contact was to save you from the kind of hurt that your dd's latest email is causing you. Having followed your thread there was nothing in the latest email that came as a surprise. Of course you are the problem, you're not playing ball to allow her to live out her sick fantasy. This you already knew she would say.

You say once she's penniless the ex will leave her again. Perhaps that will therefore be no bad thing then. She'll be broke but he'll be gone. But you know what, her drama. Do not doubt yourself.

To be frank, if you keep in contact as her punching bag, nobody can help you.

Sorry if that sounds harsh but it's true. The whole point was to keep drama and pain OUT of your life. But if you willingly open the door to it then it is YOUR choice.

I thought you had blocked her? If her messages are still coming through you need to change your email address or set it up so that her emails are returned to her.

She has refused to accept your decision and is now accusing you of all the nasty things she is.

You cannot argue with her.

NC is NC.

You have to stop reading and ignore.

It is hard, only you can enforce this. Your DD will run rough shed as she has already told you over every feeling and emotion you have.

Your choice to unblock mails.
Your choice to read mails.
Your choice to react to mails.

Sooo, what did you expect?! Honestly, what exactly did you expect to happen?

Read through your own thread again. Read the pain and upset you've been through. Read the insight that you cannot go through it again. Read the way you wanted to change to take care of yourself. To stop doing this again.

The only thing you can change is your behaviour.

You are behaving the same and expecting a different result. And there's a well know descriptor for that type of behaviour isn't there?

It's hard to change the roles we play on life. Have you thought about counselling to help you move forwards?

OP, this is exactly what I, and others said she would do. She's re-written history, she's deluded, she's pushing you, because you are not conforming. It is predictable. Please, please, stick to no contact. She can only play mind games with you, if you join in. Block her, ignore, and repeat. You are torturing yourself by re-engaging. She's deluded, you need to once and for all step back.

Block block block

Don't do this to yourself, punch. Really, don't.

It's not going to help you one bit to listen to her silly tirades, and then feel awful. Because that's all that will happen. Nothing's going to change. Why keep doing it?

I know she's your daughter, but she's deluded. It's hurting you. Let her talk to the air.

The important part of "no contact" is the "contact".

You don't remove the fact of the person's existence. You don't wipe out your history with them, the memories. What you remove is a future where you hear their words, see their expressions, are subject to their opinions/anger/frustrations. It's like a memory gradually fading. You are able to live each day without them intruding into your consciousness. You have to learn to have no contact in your head, which follows no actual contact.

It's hard, it takes time. But if you come to this point it's better than having the person in your life. It's not about being harsh, or ballsy, or not giving a shit, it's self-preservation. It's saying I know my worth and I'm worth more than this situation would suggest.

If you knew me Punch you'd be amazed that I'd taken this decision in my life. My n c people are not immediate family, and my situation is far less extreme than yours. It has however saved my sanity, my dignity, my self-esteem and confidence.

I read this thread feeling awful for you, and thinking No Contact, you need to look after yourself.
Then you're telling us what her email said, what exw3 said and you're getting involved again. If you blocked her, how did you get an email?
This is a horrific tale of abuse and downright nastiness that has left scars on your whole family. Going over and over who said what is going to make you ill again. This is your life, stop letting DD dictate to you, bully you and use you.
If you are struggling now with no contact, how bad is it going to be when she's with him? Might I suggest you speak to your doctor and tell them the impact this is having on your health and quality of life? I suspect you may have PTSD-understandably so. Counselling for you would help you get all this stress out and sort it in your head.
DD has chosen her path in life, now its up to you to choose yours. You can ask for advice again and again but as you know, you can only help someone who wants to be helped.
I wish you all the best and one golden nugget of advice: Let it go.
Take care of yourself