I am sure I did the right thing - but marriage might be over

[rememberthetime]

Our teenage daughter suffers with a mental health condition and has been seeing a specialised therapist. part of her problem is that she cannot sleep outside of our home as it causes her huge anxiety tot he point she will be in hysterics for most of the night. Tonight H and I were due to take our older child to London and stay over and had arranged to leave younger DD with her Nan. We had assumed she was better (due to the therapy) and we hoped it would be a chance for her to prove how she ahs improved. She had a complete meltdown last night and literally begged me not to make her go. She was hugely upset and distressed and I just knew it wasn't right to do this to her for the sake of a night in a hotel.

I told DH I couldn't go and that he would have to go alone. I didn't feel it fair to palce the burden of a mentally unwell child on my MIL and that we could make things worse. he didn't take it well.

We are doing counselling for our marriage and had agreed to trying to "co-parent" effectively. Part of this has been agreeing to how we would deal with things. We had agreed to sending DH to her nans and he has stuck to that. he thinks I have given in and let myself down because my own "stuff" about my childhood influenced my decision.

he uses a lot of psychobabble when he talks to me and I end up feeling wrong and misguided. But in this case i think I did the right thing. She is not ready yet and I just couldn't put his needs ahead of hers. She is a child and he is an adult. But he cannot forgive me and is not speaking to me. He wants me to "think about what I have done" and the how huge it is in how it has set back out process of healing our marriage.

For background - he is a recovering controller. I am usually scared to go against what he wants, but felt strong enough to do what i thought best in this case. Even though i have placed myself in the position of blame.

I have asked the question on the mental health board about if I did the right thing for my daughter and i am sure i did. I can't put her through that and i am supposed to protect her. But is my DH right to be angry at me? Do I deserve to be treated badly by him because i put her first and destroyed our "co-parenting" deal.

There was no way he would have allowed her to do anything other than what we had planned. I have never seen him change his mind on anything once he has decided a course of action.

So I am home alone tonight and he has gone by himself. We have another counselling session later in the week and I expect to be accused of all sorts.

So pleased for you and your dd.

He is almost certainly telling you about the dating to upset you and get a reaction. Ignore, ignore ignore.

OP, you have been amazing. Good on you. You have shown your daughter the love for her, the respect for yourself, and the courage you have.....you have sent the best possible message. Who cares what her your ex thinks....or who he dates. Any woman getting involved with him is in for a hellish time that thankfully you have escaped. I would just tell your DD there is no rush in terms of her relationship with him, give it time and in the future she can resume contact if she wishes. I am so impressed and in awe, you really have done so well. Onwards and upwards from now.

V glad you are out of there and set up well in your new place with DD.

Your ex sounds very controlling and abusive: and the couple's counsellor useless for abusive relationships.

Suggest you minimise contact with ex H. Pointless arguing with him over his choices now: he will want you to react. I would also tell your DD, in a factual way, that he is reportedly "dating", to stop that being something he seeks to control you over.

He sounds like a totally self absorbed narcissist - he wants to 'learn about himself and grow'?! Nah. He wants to talk about his self absorbed ass to anyone who will listen, better if they are a professional and he can imagine that they're condoning him, speaking to him at his 'higher functioning' level!. He's 'lovely' at times' which makes you 'think you've imagined it' - that's quality controlling from him, just keeping you on an that ever so slightly uneven keel of being controlled by him!

Christ almighty, the very reason gran couldn't come over instead of your DD having to go and stay with her, is because he's such a control freak he'd prefer her to possibly become upset instead of 'suffering' a dog staying in his home for one flippin' evening!

And I wonder, how much of the 'we must go away overnight darling' was orchestrated by him to get your DD to man up and him to express his desire to control you and make you choose him over her (I'm so glad you epically 'failed' at this test - ha ha, sod him!)?

I don't believe you can ever win with someone like this I really don't. You could talk until you're got no breath but I seriously wonder if you'd ever make genuine progress.

And at the end of the day, if his attitude and demeanour is contributing to your DDs anxiety, honestly, is it worth it? For those limited times when he is ok/nice?

Oooh, darn it, you've sort things - you are awesome! Let me backtrack and read further!! Wow!

Well done op, I've just read from start to finish.

Just a thought though, why do you think your Dd will regret not having a relationship with her dad, my dad sounds a bloody twin of your ex, he was (probably still is) vile, I could see the real him long before my mum could. He left when j was 18 as he'd completely lost control of me and my brother was finally starting to follow the same path. We were jointly protecting mum from him. I haven't seen him in 17 years, I refused to name him on my marriage certificate and my dd (who's 3) will never know him. I have absolutely no regrets at all.

Well done OP. I have an anxious DD and I would have done exactly what you did in the first post, but also I have always trusted my judgement on what is fine to push and when not to. You leaving will affect the rest of her life (in a good way!) and she will always remember how you have prioritised her. Stay strong!

The way you described him in the early part of this thread made me feel quite ill.
SO glad you've got away from him, and look how your dd is blossoming now. And I bet you are too. Him telling you he's dating again is another attempt at controlling you - this time he wants to sabotage your recovery. Don't let him.

for you and dd

Ratbag - I think the reason I want my DD to have a relationship with him is because my Dad was also controlling and i stopped seeing him (except for when I had to) after she left. But as an adult, when my children were born I was able to see him in a gentler light. I realised he was a product of the times, of his upbringing and that his treatment of my mother was because he didn't know better.
I tried to be kind to him as I grew older - but we didn't have that early relationship to fall back on. Our relationship was always strained. It made me sad because there was much about him I wished I had known or talked to him about. I never really had the chance.
I don't want my DD to feel that way about her Dad. I want her to have a safe relationship with him that is on her terms. but i might just be imagining something that could never happen. I hope that he eventually realises that if he accepts her as she is, he might just get her back. I am a bit delusional - aren't I?

I decided today that it is time to be adult. it is time to build my life with him not in it - but to maintain a reasonable relationship with him that is built around the needs of the kids. I am fed up with letting his actions control me - even when I am not with him. All it does is put him back in that superior place.

I have left, I have built up my work and increased my income, I have furnished our home, I have been there for my daughter and my son(as much as I can), I have (nearly) got a car, I have survived losing my self confidence, losing my friends, losing my family and losing my 30's and i won't lose the rest of my life to his need to parent me.

I can do this on my own - in fact I already am.

You're not delusional at all, see the best in every situation, maybe.

Whilst I understand your thoughts regarding your own father, you ex isn't like that. He's had councelling, you've pointed out how he can build his relationship with his daughter, hell, she's even pointed it out to him, he chooses to ignore this, regardless of any outcome. They are unlikely to ever have the relationship you wished for with your own father, that's ok you know, I'd stop pushing it, if it develops then fine, but if not, accept that sometimes the damage is too great even if someone accepts they are in the wrong (which your ex will never do)
One question, why are you jointly taking her to her session? Rather than just you?

And yes, you can do this on your own. You're bloody amazing.

Hello rememberthetime! I remember this thread from when you first posted and I am so pleased things are going so well for you and your daughter.

Hope you can maintain a good relationship with your son and that he doesn't feel he has to take sides. Your ex is a cockwomble but I'm sure you are cool with the fact that DS's relationship with him is different from your relationship with him.

Are DS and DD in regular contact? (Or in as much contact as any teenager can be arsed to be in with their sibling regardless of whether they're living together?)

I love the fact that your DD spends more time outside her bedroom now. Her "safe space" has expanded! You did that!

As for Ex dating, pffft. It's an ego boost, a way to pass time and a way to try to hurt you. So win, win, win as far as the cockwomble is concerned. Sure, it's not much of a hobby but it's all that loser has.

You, on the other hand, sound awesome.

Thank you all!

Rat - we are taking her together because I haven't got a car yet and the therapist lives 45 min drive away and i can't there by public transport. She refuses to travel there with him alone - so I am going to support her so he doesn't end up saying something arsey to her.

One time when we travelled back from one of these sessions - he said "so when are you going to start eating with us then?" She insisted that she wasn't ready yet. he just kept pushing for a time or a date and it ended with her in tears.

As soon as i feel ready to drive on the motorway I will take her. But i believe he will fight that as he wants to control this process.

DD and DS really don't talk at all either. he saw her as being the problem in the family and she feels that he hates her. I think he is influenced by the Ex. What he saw was a teenager who appeared stroppy, who refused to interact with anyone, who was openly rude to her father. All things that he would never do and would never have got away with. I am doing my best to bring them together - but it really is tricky. I have explained to them both that each are a product of the issues we had in our house and each of them dealt with it in their own ways. I told them I want them to support each other - but at the moment there are not enough opportunities to do that. it is a bit sad - but I hope they reconnect as they get a bit older.

This was never what I wanted for my family.

:( it sounds like your Ds was the the golden child and she was the scapegoat. It was the same in our house, again I get on with my brother but I will never be close.

You've done an amazing thing for your daughter, walking away, she will grow so much now. I hope in time you can take her to her therapist alone, I go for my own councelling now and that down time afterwards is vital. You're doing amazingly well. KOKO

Could you find a new therapist for DD? Or find alternative transport asap? Travelling there with her father will be counterproductive.

Her father should have no say in her decisions about her treatment or transport given the circumstances.

I found a few refresher lessons to help me with motorway driving really helpful.

Unfortunately the therapist is the only one in the country that specialises in a particular type of treatment. We are very lucky because she is offering to treat our daughter free of charge as she is being used as an example for her studies.
But yes, the plan is to practise my driving as soon as my car arrives...hopefully it won't take too long before I am confident enough.

I will be putting some ground rules in place with regards my Ex and what he says to her. He will accuse me of controlling him - but at the very least I should try. if he starts up I will cut him dead. She doesn't have to put up with that any more. Neither do I.

If the therapist is aware of the situation - that DD wishes to have no contact with her father but he is driving her (and you) to sessions she might agree temporary measures, eg sessions by phone or skype, until you have the car and can get DD there independently.

He will accuse me of controlling him

Meh! Who cares? He's not in charge of you anymore!

I think your sad experiences with your father could be affecting you in encouraging DD about her relationship with her father, which is something she's old enough to decide about for herself, perhaps with help from her therapist or books about dysfunctional families! It also sounds like you're excusing/minimising your father's abusive behaviour.

Dozer - you are not wrong. She is old enough to make her own choices. I just wish she didn't have to and that he was a better father.

For me - my Dad had Victorian parents. He was nearly 50 when I was born - so he was 2 generations away from mine. he was the age of a grandparent. it may not be an excuse, but I think being able to understand the challenges of his childhood, the times he grew up in and the inability for him to understand the changes in feminism and how that all put him in difficult position makes me a better person. In the end I feel no bitterness towards him and that is a good thing. I don't want to carry that sadness around with me.

I don't want my daughter to either. I want her to forgive and move on because bitterness can ruin your life.

We had a big conversation yesterday and she can't understand why I left him yet want her to see him. I get that. But it isn't that cut and dried.

Forgiveness is for her to decide on, in her own time, though. She might change her feelings towards him over time, or might not.

It's too soon to expect her to be able to have this amount of wisdom, OP. She needs to heal first, and feel safe. If she doesn't feel strong enough to have a relationship with him, then that's ok. When she is a bit stronger, settled and has built up some resilience, she can rebuild her relationships.

If you think of the emotional jug image, at the moment as soon as she gets anything good in there he sucks it all off. She needs time to find out who she is and let her jug slowly refill, before having to cope with his destructive ways.

PKL - thank you. that makes lots of sense. At the moment she is certain she will never let him back into her life. As you say, it is still early and we both have plenty of rebuilding to do.

We are both seeing him tomorrow. I am asking her to at least say hello. Nothing more. She has set up a divert on her phone so his texts go to me so she doesn't have to see them. I don't know if that is a good idea or not.

It's great that she doesn't have to see them, not so good that you do. I think I would let her block them. If he knows through you that she is ok, then that is all he needs. He is putting his desire to control her above her well being. You are doing really well to engage with him at all. He should feel privileged that you entertain dealing with him. He has blamed every little dissatisfaction in his life on you and DD, because you are 'not good enough'. If you are strong and wise and mature enough to communicate with him at all then he should feel very lucky.

All too true. I don't mind getting his texts. I can't think of much he will say that i am not already aware of. He just keeps texting her that he loves her and misses her. But there is subtext...always subtext.

On another note. I pick up my car on friday afternoon. I am totally frightened of driving. Aside from the test drive (which was in a car park...) i haven't driven in a year. But I see this as the final hurdle. if i can get this level of independence my life could change totally. Even more than it has already.

At the ripe old age of 40-something I got my drivers license and now I have a car. Sometimes I don't recognise myself.

My next step is to get a job that truly shows off my talents. Being self employed is great, but I want to work with people and not feel so alone at home. Plus a decent salary would be good as i have to have something to pay off the car...