I am sure I did the right thing - but marriage might be over

[rememberthetime]

Our teenage daughter suffers with a mental health condition and has been seeing a specialised therapist. part of her problem is that she cannot sleep outside of our home as it causes her huge anxiety tot he point she will be in hysterics for most of the night. Tonight H and I were due to take our older child to London and stay over and had arranged to leave younger DD with her Nan. We had assumed she was better (due to the therapy) and we hoped it would be a chance for her to prove how she ahs improved. She had a complete meltdown last night and literally begged me not to make her go. She was hugely upset and distressed and I just knew it wasn't right to do this to her for the sake of a night in a hotel.

I told DH I couldn't go and that he would have to go alone. I didn't feel it fair to palce the burden of a mentally unwell child on my MIL and that we could make things worse. he didn't take it well.

We are doing counselling for our marriage and had agreed to trying to "co-parent" effectively. Part of this has been agreeing to how we would deal with things. We had agreed to sending DH to her nans and he has stuck to that. he thinks I have given in and let myself down because my own "stuff" about my childhood influenced my decision.

he uses a lot of psychobabble when he talks to me and I end up feeling wrong and misguided. But in this case i think I did the right thing. She is not ready yet and I just couldn't put his needs ahead of hers. She is a child and he is an adult. But he cannot forgive me and is not speaking to me. He wants me to "think about what I have done" and the how huge it is in how it has set back out process of healing our marriage.

For background - he is a recovering controller. I am usually scared to go against what he wants, but felt strong enough to do what i thought best in this case. Even though i have placed myself in the position of blame.

I have asked the question on the mental health board about if I did the right thing for my daughter and i am sure i did. I can't put her through that and i am supposed to protect her. But is my DH right to be angry at me? Do I deserve to be treated badly by him because i put her first and destroyed our "co-parenting" deal.

There was no way he would have allowed her to do anything other than what we had planned. I have never seen him change his mind on anything once he has decided a course of action.

So I am home alone tonight and he has gone by himself. We have another counselling session later in the week and I expect to be accused of all sorts.

DH loves it. He thrives on it. he says he loves to learn new things about himself and constantly improve.
And is he learning new things about himself and improving? Or does he say all that but actually just look for justification for his actions? A narcissist can love counselling because it's an hour to talk about how fascinating they are and their thought processes. They're still a narcissist at the end of it. The need it fulfils is nothing to do with growing and improving.
You said you've read all the books. Did that include 'Should I stay or should I go?' because imo that's probably the best Lundy book for the stage you are at.

it isn't a case of tough love - it doesn't work like that.

This, totally. I have a DS with some anxiety issues. Yes, if he can be persuaded to conquer them, such as going on a school overnight trip, it gives him more confidence and helps him. BUT that doesn't mean putting pressure on him is helpful. Gentle encouragement and respect for how he feels has helped the most, along with giving him CBT-type tools to manage it (from CAMHS sessions).

Interestingly I have also had a very difficult ex (PA, dishonest, negative) from whom I am now separating. His behaviour has certainly contributed to my own anxiety and I think it has had an effect on DS too. You never know where you are with him and everything is a battle.

In this situation, IMO, your H would have been reasonable to feel disappointed, but as an adult should have made reassuring DD a priority. he could easily have said "don't worry, DS and I will have a fab time, and we'll keep working on this when you're ready. Make sure you do something nice too while we're away." But he's putting his own feelings first and acting out and making people suffer - so familiar to me.

It does sound like you need to end it.

You did the right thing. You were flexible and responsive to your daughter's genuine needs. I'm only surprised your DH can't see that. Would he rather have his daughter spend the night in a state of distress?

I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking elodie was giving bloody terrible advice

In a way I understand what elodie was saying. it is true that i dwell on the things because of my anxieties. That may make me misread things. But my counsellor taught me to trust my body and my instincts. If I feel ill with anxiety there is a reason - always.

DH is still being kind and understanding. Which i am finding confusing. Just part of the cycle - or maybe he thought while he was away about the situation and realised I was reasonable and did the right thing.

I am interested to see what the counsellors says to us about this tomorrow.

Yes, I have read Lundy...twice, plus the other LUndy books. I am a mine of information but also clueless!

That's because you're still listening to him. He is undoing all the good work you've done getting individual counselling and reading Lundy Bancroft.

For example: "Do I deserve to be treated badly by him" (in your first post). No of course you don't. Any counsellor or indeed any sensible would tell you that. I suspect you're asking the question because he is telling you deserve it - and has been for years and years.

I think it's very sad. You've always put your abusive husband first and your children second You have finally done the right thing and put your daughter first for once, and now you're questioning yourself

any sensible person

*I think his main issue is with me. I admit totally that i was very upset at seeing DD so upset and I was so torn. I knew i literally had to choose between making him very angry and making her very very sad/ill/distressed. I chose her and had to tell him that. I didn't involve him in that choice I just announced it whilst in a state about my own emotions.

His first response was to try and make me see sense and the error in what i was doing. I made a unilateral decision and went against what we agreed. he can't understand why I would do that. he sees it as an affront to him. he said he feels sorry for me because i can't see how my behaviour is affected by my own issues and emotions.*

Keep rereading that. It tells you that this won't change. He can't change.

When it comes to pleasing him or looking after your daughter, he expects to win. That's the first red flag. He expects you to make the decision that you think he'd make, not make the decision for yourself - that's two. He expects the weight of his disappointment to ensure that you fear disappointing him and won't do so - that's three. He tried to change your mind when you did make a decision - that's four. Five - he believes he's absolutely right, your opinion has no say.

And let's not forget that this wasn't a trivial decision. You were deciding whether to go to a hotel with your husband and daughter, and cause intolerable pain to your daughter, or let your husband go to the hotel alone and look after your daughter. He diminished that into a popularity contest. He wants to go; so you should go, whether or not that harms your daughter. She's not important because she's your daughter and he has no respect for you. He wants her to fall into line in the exact same way he expects you too. His opinions will rule, he will always get his own way.

Your motivation to leave, now, should be that he is trying to force this on your daughter. And even if your daughter resists her father trying to control her, she's then statistically a lot more likely to end up with a controlling husband. She will stay because she will weaken, over time, and she will love the man she's with, and she will normalise this unconsciously.

You shouldn't be doing counselling with him; he's the type that will twist things to make the counsellor see a different perspective. A twisted perspective. The advice they give will be wrong because they aren't advising on reality.

Please get away from him. He's not even hiding his control of you anymore, he's so secure in it. He believes you'd never leave.

"I already feel enough guilt about what the kids had to put up with when they were very young (I don't think he feels guilt about it at all - not that he has ever said) and I felt i had to protect my daughter this time."

What did he do to them?
You can't forgive him and move on unless he acknowledges what he did and apologises for it. He won't be "in recovery" if he doesn't do that. Have you ever brought it up in couple's counselling?

Emma - he was very controlling. The children had rules they had to stick to. Bed time, internet use, showing us their homework, getting jobs done on time, getting themselves ready in the morning, being tidy...the list goes on. But worst of all was he would shout at me in front of them about what i had done wrong. I spent every day ensuring they were sticking to the rules so I wouldn't get in trouble. I had a list of my own rules too.

The thing is that these rules could be construed as simple discipline - but there was no room for compromise. Any deviation from a rule was met with punishment. But he would say he was just being firm and consistent. But I saw the fear in the kids when they realised they hadn't been able to stick to a rule.

I had a bad night last night. I went into a bit of a panic after H questioned me about money. I am self employed and my income varies. I can't always meet my commitments as well as i would like (but I always do - just sometimes by the skin of my teeth).

I told him I would rather not talk about stuff like that at night as it makes it impossible for me to sleep. I start to dwell on it and worry. he said I can't tell him when he can talk to me. That it is trying to control him. So of course my sleep was ruined. I spent the night stressing an worrying and crying. Now I feel awful and can't concentrate on my work - so can't earn. it is a vicious cycle.

I feel like my body is getting to the point it might give up. Constant shortness of breath, heart beating wildly, light headed, sick feeling, constant trips to the loo. I am catastrophising everything. it isn't good.

Counsellor said she would give me some techniques to slow down my thinking.

Also i am hearing back from a job interview today. In an effort to get a regular income i am hopefully going to be working full time rather than freelancing. I think that will help.

My DD talked yesterday about things she would like to do in the holidays. it was positive as she wants to get out of the house. The only thing is that i don't have the time or the money. But i will try to do something with her as often as i can.

Thank you all for helping me see things straight. In a way taking my head out of the sand is making it worse. i feel more stressed than ever - but things get worse before they get better...don't they?

"things get worse before they get better...don't they?"

Well, it depends. If you stay with him, they won't ever get better. If you leave, they might feel worse to begin with but they will definitely get better.

He sounds horrific by the way. And financially abusive as well as everything else.

Applying for the job is a really positive step - fingers crossed you get it!

Your description of your husband is chilling and it's clear you've got his number.

OP, based on your last post and how he obviously makes you feel, I think you should seriously consider leaving the odious man.

You had a list of rules OP? 😯

It's one thing setting reasonable (if they indeed were) rules for your children. Adults do not get to give other adults a list of rules. Unless they are employing them I suppose!

He still sounds very controlling and, well, unpleasant to me.

I don't think the Freedom programme will work when you are still in the midst of the relationship.

Please carefully plan and get out. Don't allow psychoanalysis tone new abuse.

To be clear there was no physical list of rules. Just a mental list that i adhered to. That is no longer the case. There are no rules for anyone - but the weight of expectation for me is still there. I feel i have to live to the new rule of being the perfect communicator and use the tools of counselling correctly at all times. it is exhausting.

I don't know about anyone else who lives in a controlling relationship - but I feel like my H uses people as projects. To be moulded and worked into something new and better (in his eyes). I am constantly told that my worldview is skewed and that i need to work on myself. yet he insists that he would never try to change me. But by telling someone they are not right you are implying they are wrong.

My husband is very clever and can turn anything around to be a judgement on my ability to communicate properly. the thing is that I am very clever too and very capable - yet I am sucked in every time.

The shared counselling is in an effort to see if we should stay together - so he is aware I am not happy. But i still cannot take that final step. I have lots of things standing in my way - not least the money issue.

Still waiting to hear back on the job. I am in the final 2...

This is chilling 'remember', it is a horrible way to live.
Just reading your posts make me anxious and sad and i am a stranger on the internet. No wonder you and your dd suffer from anxiety.
A poster earlier wrote that perhaps your dd is worried about you being away alone with your h. I nodded when i read that post and now after reading your last post it makes even more sense perhaps?

Is the Grandma who was going to look after dd his mother or your mother? Does she know about your relationship and could you and dd live there for few days to clear your head? Or do you have siblings or a good friend?
I think you should go away for few days x

"I have lots of things standing in my way - not least the money issue."

Please read this:
You can afford to leave (PDF)

You might also find it useful to talk to Citizens Advice about the benefits and child maintenance you would be entitled to in the event of a split. And you'd be entitled to at least 50% of the marital assets - anything that is owned by yourself or your husband individually or in joint names.

things get worse before they get better...don't they?

Yes. Things will briefly get worse when you leave this nasty little creature, but then you will have a life.

Ok just received a couple of "helpful" links to articles I might find interesting regarding our counselling. When I pointed out this was not allowing me to be an adult and was very parental of him he shut me down immediately. Said it was me being childish and not understanding that he was just sharing his thoughts with me. Not telling me what to do.

I didn't have to read the links apparently unless i wanted to. When I asked why he sent them he told me the conversation was not going well and he wasn't going to continue.

Now he is ignoring me and even shouted at me from the garden about how I need to consider why he would send me links to read if he thought I would take it badly. Huh?

Browsing rentals...

Not going to be able to reply much this weekend. But will be back on monday.

Did anyone watch that mediation programme. The man and woman who could not be int he same room...he is like him. he comes across as plausible but then does stuff like send helpful articles and emails. he just doesn't get that it is condescending - yet impossible to complain about because he is just sharing his thoughts. And he has a vested interest - so it is OK.

Oh God, just get rid of him. He doesn't sound worth all the stress and hassle at all.

It's clear proof that he is using the couple's counselling to assert his superiority and control over you.

Don't let him. Stop the counselling. Get counselling for yourself instead, if you think it would help you.

You dont need permission to leave him. It doesnt need to be 'bad enough'. You can just leave.