I am sure I did the right thing - but marriage might be over

[rememberthetime]

Our teenage daughter suffers with a mental health condition and has been seeing a specialised therapist. part of her problem is that she cannot sleep outside of our home as it causes her huge anxiety tot he point she will be in hysterics for most of the night. Tonight H and I were due to take our older child to London and stay over and had arranged to leave younger DD with her Nan. We had assumed she was better (due to the therapy) and we hoped it would be a chance for her to prove how she ahs improved. She had a complete meltdown last night and literally begged me not to make her go. She was hugely upset and distressed and I just knew it wasn't right to do this to her for the sake of a night in a hotel.

I told DH I couldn't go and that he would have to go alone. I didn't feel it fair to palce the burden of a mentally unwell child on my MIL and that we could make things worse. he didn't take it well.

We are doing counselling for our marriage and had agreed to trying to "co-parent" effectively. Part of this has been agreeing to how we would deal with things. We had agreed to sending DH to her nans and he has stuck to that. he thinks I have given in and let myself down because my own "stuff" about my childhood influenced my decision.

he uses a lot of psychobabble when he talks to me and I end up feeling wrong and misguided. But in this case i think I did the right thing. She is not ready yet and I just couldn't put his needs ahead of hers. She is a child and he is an adult. But he cannot forgive me and is not speaking to me. He wants me to "think about what I have done" and the how huge it is in how it has set back out process of healing our marriage.

For background - he is a recovering controller. I am usually scared to go against what he wants, but felt strong enough to do what i thought best in this case. Even though i have placed myself in the position of blame.

I have asked the question on the mental health board about if I did the right thing for my daughter and i am sure i did. I can't put her through that and i am supposed to protect her. But is my DH right to be angry at me? Do I deserve to be treated badly by him because i put her first and destroyed our "co-parenting" deal.

There was no way he would have allowed her to do anything other than what we had planned. I have never seen him change his mind on anything once he has decided a course of action.

So I am home alone tonight and he has gone by himself. We have another counselling session later in the week and I expect to be accused of all sorts.

The bottom line is that he sounds like a thoroughly unpleasant man. Your DD aside, is being married to him giving you any happiness at all?

Weirdly, yes there is some happiness. It is the typical abuse cycle. There are periods of time when he is amazing - truly amazing. Someone I can totally rely on, who is there for me, supportive, great with the kids and would do anything for anyone. Then there is a slow switch and a sneaking feeling. My anxiety levels rise and I recognise that something is coming. I often become quite confrontational during these periods because that feels better somehow. But then of course the inevitable argument becomes my fault. Then he forgives me for my "issues" and resolves to help me get better and he feels like he has a purpose again and he is all happy.
I should write a book on emotional abuse. he is textbook - but subtle, very subtle.
But when he is good, he is so so good.

I left my controller almost 3 years ago. I'm a different person now and it's amazing. Turns out I'm not "mental" or a "nutter" or "fucked up in the head", but he really liked me to think that. Leaving might have a positive result for all of you. My ds was almost 4 when we left and wouldn't use a potty or toilet. A few weeks later he asked to wear underpants and never had an accident since. The stress of living in such a horrible atmosphere was damaging him and making him anxious.

Just read your last post. Don't let him have contact with the counsellor it isn't in your dds best interest. It sounds like it would be in everyone's best interest for you to leave him from what you have posted. I hope you are ok x

As gently as I can say this...are you sure that catering to your daughter's fears and anxieties is still a good idea when she is a teenager already? Most of the young adults I knew, with and without comorbid psych conditions, did better when their anxiety breakdowns were met with firm boundaries and a gentle insistence that they do the thing that made them anxious, as long as all precautions were taken for their safety.

The people I know who have done the worst with their psych conditions, the people I know who've never learned to manage, were the ones whose parents bowed to their anxieties and treated those anxieties like they were real, valid worries instead of something to work past.

I agree that you did the right thing in putting your child first. I agree that your husband is still trying to control you, and is now trying to control your daughter.

I do not like the sound of any of this at all.

I wonder if your daughter's anxiety issues have sprung from your husband trying to control everything. The description you give of how your husband insists you have to communicate is chilling. He is abusing you.

I hope you're having counselling alone, and not with him. If you're having joint counselling, he could well be using those sessions to abuse you further.

I would distance myself from him as quickly as I could. Keep yourself safe.

As gently as I can say this...are you sure that catering to your daughter's fears and anxieties is still a good idea when she is a teenager already? Most of the young adults I knew, with and without comorbid psych conditions, did better when their anxiety breakdowns were met with firm boundaries and a gentle insistence that they do the thing that made them anxious, as long as all precautions were taken for their safety.

The people I know who have done the worst with their psych conditions, the people I know who've never learned to manage, were the ones whose parents bowed to their anxieties and treated those anxieties like they were real, valid worries instead of something to work past.

This is true: but setting those firm boundaries and treating them with gentle insistence cannot be done when one parent is being bullying and controlling. It only works when there is consistency and compassion. So in this case, I think it's a question of damage limitation, and the OP making her child feel as safe as she can under the circumstances. Remove the bullying control from the equation, provide loving stability, and the anxiety might well disappear on its own.

Is part of your daughters anxiety about not wanting to actually leave you alone with your dh, which comes out as not wanting to sleep elsewhere? Her email to him is very telling about quite how poisonous his behaviour is and how traumatic she finds her fathers behaviour.
I gently suggest you chuck him out and get as much support from your local DV service for both you and your DD as you can.
You need to know that this is not a normal way for a man to treat his wife, you also need to know that there is no such thing as a recovering controller. He is showing his cards over and over and he is the manipulative one.

He is not a recovering controller.

He is a controller.

Couples counselling isn't recommended when one party is abusive toward the other, and he is abusive.

I suspect your DDs MH might improve a little if you were to leave him. Yours certainly would.

Yours is not a happy or healthy family dynamic - but you know that already.
You said you had to choose between his anger and your DD's distress, but I would suggest you need to put yourself at the top of the pyramid here. What is/was your decision, based on your judgement of the situation at the time and your opinion as to what is/was best for everyone concerned.

The outcome would have been the same, I'm sure - but the difference is that it was a choice that YOU made, not you being torn between 2 people.

Not sure if I'm expressing this well enough, but the point I'm trying to make is that although you are amazingly self-aware of what is happening and of how destructive your H's controlling behaviour is, a part of you is still 'allowing' him to judge you in every situation.

A big lightbulb moment for me was I realised my H's judgement about me, my feelings and behaviour, meant fuck all!

" a recovering controller"?!!
There is no such thing! Or if there is, it's extremely rare. Has he called the Respect helpline? Is he doing the Freedom Programme for men? No?! Didn't think so...

It's not surprising that your daughter has extreme anxiety, given that she lives with an emotionally abusive father.

Please stop the couple's counselling. It's not recommended for abusive relationships. As you have seen he's just using it against you.

Have you ever read "Why does he do that?" by Lundy Bancroft? Ever called Women's Aid? Ever considered doing the Freedom Programme?

OP, I've read all of your posts on this thread and your family dynamics sound exhausting.
There has to come a time when the psychoanalysis stops and everyone in the family is allowed to just 'be'.
There seems to be a lot going on and I'm curious to hear your husband's side. Although I know that's not possible!
When you said this - '...but perhaps I value my relationship with my daughter more than I should and I let her get away with too much?'
It got me thinking that the control battle/ jealousy is between your husband and daughter here. Your DD wouldn't let you leave her and you have subsequently backed out of an arrangement you had made with your husband.
You are well and truly caught in the middle.

Just to add... I understand your DD's situation but there seems to be a game of tug and war driving a big wedge between you and your husband. Did you explain to him that you would go away together another time? He obviously doesn't think you should have 'given in to her' so what was the compromise?

Finally, it might be an idea to look past both of your REACTIONS to the situation (Him accusing you of pandering to your DD, dropping out of arrangements & You accusing him of being controlling.)

Ask your husband how your actions have made him FEEL and you tell him how you FEEL.

For example, does he feel Let down? Second best? Undermined? Sad? Anxious? Angry?Disappointed? Get him to explain.

Explain to him how YOU feel. e.g : anxious?, torn between two people?, pressured?, concerned for DD?, frightened?, confused?

Talk to each other about your differing perspectives and appreciate what each other is feeling without accusing.

I think if you & the DC were living on your own both you & your DD would see your anxiety levels drop.

For the mental health of you all please LTB as soon as you can.

Gosh - lots of opinions here. Thank you.

Feelings play a big role in our communication - we are taught to talk about feelings alot. But I don't really think my feelings are taken seriously, because they are put down to being disordered thinking.

I agree my H would have been feeling all of those things and i do acknowledge them..

There is definitely a push/pull between my DD, myself and my husband. it is a dynamic that isn't working and do feel very much caught in the middle. But edging towards my daughters wellbeing. As that just makes sense to me.

As it happens, my H has arrived home and been perfectly nice to me. Makes me wonder if it was all in my head. Did i imagine the silence and the recriminations before he left? It was a little frosty this morning and we didn't talk about it but we did chat about his night and how it went.

Apparently our son told DH that he was so happy to have two parents who support him so much. So he felt OK about the whole thing, it seems.

Yes, I have read all the books and even done the online freedom programme. I have also had 2 years of counselling. I still feel stuck though. it is maddening. I agree that couples counselling isn't helping.

I am also of the opinion that i need a break from the psychoanalysis of everything i do. DH loves it. He thrives on it. he says he loves to learn new things about himself and constantly improve. I hate the constant feeling that my natural state is wrong.

it would be lovely to just "be". But in this house we are not allowed to just be. We must always be improving and getting better.

Another session tomorrow, so will report then on how it went.

Don't go to the session!

What's stopping you from leaving? Are you afraid of his action? Worried about money and other practical things? Still deluded hopeful that he is going to change?

his reaction

Please leave OP.

This is not love, and it's damaging you and your daughter.

So glad he arrived home in a calm state of mind!
You say 'As it happens, my H has arrived home and been perfectly nice to me. Makes me wonder if it was all in my head.'
Maybe. Your DD put you in an impossible situation and your guilt, anxiety, confusion about what to do (go away/ stay with her) could easily have become frustration misdirected towards your DH.
I'm not saying that for sure because I don't know either of you but, it's possible!
He was the obstacle between you doing what your motherly instincts tell you (stay) and your prior arrangement (go).
It's quite easy to blame him when actually, everyone in this situation is entitled to their opinions and feelings!
Talk to him OP! Build a bridge between the two of you. If you are a strong partnership you will be able to cope with the demands your DD places on you! She needs to see that you and he are a team because with or without mental illness, she cannot be allowed to push/pull in YOUR relationship.

elodie with respect you have spectacularly missed the point and you are giving damaging advice. It's clear that the OP's husband is controlling and abusive. Either you missed that or you don't understand the implications.

AnotherEmma - There are two sides to every story. We've heard only the OP's perspective, not his. Impossible to say LTB based on what she's said.

What does being a "recovering controller" involve? I would have thought a large part of it would be learning to put other people's needs & wishes above your own? Or at least giving them consideration?

Ideally, MIL would have been able to stay the night at your house with DD2. I understand that may have meant her having to take a day off work, which is a lot to ask, but maybe she would have been willing to do that for her granddaughters? Maybe it would be better to rearrange the trip on a date when it's convenient for MIL to stay over?

In your situation, I wouldn't expect my DH to be pissed off with anyone TBH. I'd expect him to see that you can't leave DD2 in her current state, and that is pretty much that. It's not DD2's fault. It's not your fault.

Yes, it's very disappointing and yes, I do think it would have been lovely for DD1 to have had a lovely trip with both of you - but that doesn't sound possible this week.

I would want to rearrange the trip for a date when somebody suitable (GP, very close friend etc.) can sleep at your home with DD2.

How horrible that DH is making what is obviously a very upsetting situation for everyone into your and DD2's fault!

You did absolutely the right thing to cancel London. Quite frankly I wouldn't walk two steps beside this H of yours who spouts psychobabble and destroys your opinions and emotions at every twist and turn his use of oh-so-clever language can muster. He objects to your MIL's dog being in its own home.

I suspect, despite counselling, little has fundamentally changed in the dynamic of your marriage. I believe he is still very much a controller and the thought of him makes me shudder. Whose idea was the night in London btw?

I hope this doesn't sound negative when it is intended as support. I think you're waking up to who he really is and it isn't a pleasant vision. As for his goading, sneery "think about what you've done" attitude - ppfftt!