tell me i need to get a grip/am in the wrong? DH and texting

[snowtuxedo]

DH's best childhood friend has just come out of a messy divorce. He is 45, same age as my DH.

He's going through a phase of heading to nightclubs in London, buying a table and champagne, and taking girls home.

He has invited DH along a few times, but I am 39 weeks pregnant, ready to pop and barely see DH with his job being what it is and him working away so much. Plus I wouldn't support DH going as a wing man for the purpose of picking up women.

Anyway, this was all very vague and irrelevant to me until I get a picture from DH of his friend sitting in his flat with two girls straddling him on each knee, everyone was clothed. He had sent it to my DH, then DH had captioned it something like "look what Dfriend is up to now..." and forwarded to me. The girls looked about 20 years old - (not underage, but DH's friend was definitely pushing a 25 year age difference.)

It made me a bit and I asked DH what his friend had been up to. He just said his friend had picked these girls up in a club, slept in a bed with them and nothing had happened. DH said he was rebounding and he found it all a bit pathetic. Fine - it's his friends' business, I thought. I asked a few more questions but DH was mostly unforthcoming, just brushed the questions off and kept repeating that it was a phase his friend was going through. I'm feeling huge and frumpy and I think maybe on some level I was worried DH would be jealous of his friend's freedom.

Well... I checked DH's phone earlier today (because I felt insecure.) DH leaves it unlocked and generally out, as I leave mine too. I looked at the conversation with his friend and it was basically lots and lots of sexual pictures of these girls naked, doing things to each other and him (his friend) and a blow-by-blow account of the "threesome" he had with them. Again this is none of my business, but it rings alarm bells with me that he is sharing these pics with DH, giving accounts of the sex to DH, that DH did not tell me the whole story and that DH is even willing to accept pictures like this. If a friend sent these to me, I would say ergh, no thanks...

Not that I have any RIGHT to know the whole story, obviously, as it is none of my business and I'm just being an insecure fool - right?

Plus although DH wasn't actively egging him on in his comments, there was definitely a "boy's club" mentality about the whole conversation. "Sometimes women are like this and sometimes women are like that. And sometimes they let you do this/that to them...And sometimes when they're really dirty they do this..."

I need to just let this whole thing well alone, don't I? Please be gentle, I think I am just hormonal and insecure...

But Kittens we don't know what they talk about generally this behaviour aside, they could have had important information or memories discussed, old photos etc. Honestly I'm 25 I know how to screen shot ( I do it a lot, just look at the BB threads ) I don't know off the top of my head how to delete a single message, I wouldn't have an issue trying to look for it, but (and I don't mean this condescending) my parents and people older than myself have found technology harder to grasp, and less knowledge of how to access the smaller "hidden" features.

And I despise snooping and your right sometimes people snoop and have a reason to be wary, but I think there is a massive difference between thinking your partner has been cheating, committing a serious crime and being nosey to see if your DH divorced friend is sleeping with unknown younger women

I have demonstrated actions that support my notion that this middle-aged bloke who is in control of the situation, making & distributing impromptu porn with two young women.
I am concerned by the tone of what he said, and the dodgy boasting behaviour, and the fact that alcohol was involved that the young women were not in a state to be making a truly consensual part in making the porn and distributing it.

twitt we really don't maybe they were just having a conversation about the sunny weather :) but honestly if someone sent me these type of photos i would learn pretty quickly how to remove those photos or delete the conversation (if I didn't at 39 and very tech savvy) I just would, I wouldn't want the risk of ever seeing them again and the bloody things hurting my eyes anymore (even if he is a stunning specimen of a middle aged man) it being burnt into my retinas once would be enough

Think the OP snooped because she thought the friend was possibly sending graphic images and didn't like the idea of it to be honest... but I take your point no murders that we know off have been committed in this scenario.

Hang on, when did "look at me, I'm having some sex, have a picture of my nob" become a thing? Wouldn't most men be rather perplexed at receiving their friends' sex pics?

And horrified I would think with a response of

"dude, I really don't want to see your nob"

This is going to make many an interesting dinner conversation this evening I think :)

You're uncomfortable (I'd bet) because whether it's his friend or not, your DH has been accepting photos of other women naked and pleasuring themselves and someone else. What makes it worse (imo) is that these aren't abstract photos of someone else or "pornography" in the sense that typically these things are staged. You know these are "real situations". And worse yet again, is wondering whether these girls were aware their photos/images were being sent around?

Also doesn't help that you ARE hormonal (simply by virtue of being pregnant, this does not mean "irrational"), heavily pregnant, miss out on seeing your DH all the time and you come to find out he's living vicariously through this friend (or appears to be).

The problem you have here though is whether you confess to checking his phone, or whether you discuss it in an abstract way "I've been thinking a lot about your friend X. I know you're trying to support him and sleeping with all these women and spending all this money is his way of dealing with the divorce, but it makes me really uncomfortable that he thinks you're interested in seeing photos and hearing all the sordid details. It concerns me that he's trying to convince you in some way of how amazing his life is now and that you should join him. I know I probably sound crazy (you don't but just in case he thinks it) sadface

Or you could always not discuss it at all. Most likely your DH can't find a polite way to tell him to knock it off without sounding like he's being judgy (I'd always go the route of: "Husband would be pissed if he saw these texts so it's better for me if you leave me out of this stuff"). "Oh no he'd flip if he suddenly had no access to my phone, that's even more suspicious. I really don't need to see the photos. I'm glad you're enjoying yourself.".

Really surprised that not everyone is condemning the sharing of sexual pictures of these girls.

Really, really surprised.

If you think these girls were asked whether they minded him sending them to his best mate, and they said 'Sure! Go for it!', then you are very, very stupid.

And I'll ask again - to those who don't have a problem with it. Would it be ok for this to happen with pictures of your wife/daughter/sister? If it is NOT ok for other men to be sharing pictures of your loved ones around, why is it OK to do to women you don't know?

Fuzzyeyes, talk about jumping the gun!

There is absolutely no suggestion that the girls were drunk and unable to consent. All that was said was that drinks were available. Perhaps you can't sit at a table of champagne without getting utterly rat-arsed, but I know a lot of people who can.

And I would have thought that the girls would have noticed when he took out his phone and started snapping away, especially when they were all at it at the same time.

Just because it is something you wouldn't do and view it as repulsive, don't assume he is some kind of predator who took advantage.

Concrete underpants - do you know of any women that would do it sober?
Although I think it is possible that they are prostitutes or 'hostessess' from the venue where he booked a table, flashed his high rolling cash and bought the drinks. Even so, young prostitutes aren't necessarily going to be happy about being photographed either, or to have those pictures distributed. Lots of prostitutes (lap dancers and others in the sex industry) use alcohol/cocaine/etc to get through what they have to do to get paid. It is not such a stretch that these young women were drunk/high. And it is possible to do things - even without being rat arsed, that you would reject completely sober. Most people are lucky to be around their mates who don't overstep boundaries when they have had a couple.

Highly unlikely they consented to their naked bodies being sent to a man they don't even know, if they were that blaze about it then whey didn't they take the pics themselves?

Unfortunately in this world there are immature men out there who are sexual predators and take advantage of the young and naïve, I'd be very surprised if those girls didn't wake up mortified, I am not excusing their actions either btw but him at the age of 45 is nothing but a sleaze.

And yes I have a daughter and yes it makes it all the more worrying.

BTW this is totally jumping the gun: Just because it is something you wouldn't do and view it as repulsive, don't assume he is some kind of predator who took advantage

I believe that the man was the one in control here. He feels like a saddo and a failure because he is divorced and wants create the impression to all his married mates that the grass is much greener where he is, so instead of pitying him, they envy him.
To achieve this, he needs to find some human props for his charade. So he does wharever he needs to do to orchestrate, stage and broadcast it.
It is his vision, his ego-trip, his image, his money, his champagne, etc. He is the one in control.
That is all I am saying. If YOU think a bloke who orchestrates and controls a situation like that is a preditor - those are your words, not mine.

Is it assumed the girls consented to the photos but not to them being sent around? That they believed this man they'd just met in a bar was keeping them for his own personal use?

Come on... Everyone knows why men take pictures of naked girls on their phones. There is no 'private collection'. I thought it was pretty much accepted among young people that the taking and distributing of photos was the same thing. It's not like they didn't notice he had a phone in his hand the whole time (ew.)

Treating every woman who has some sex like she's possibly a rape victim because there has to be a reason she didn't know what she was doing is a bit strange. Starts to remind me of that mad 'all sex is rape' article that does the rounds every few years. Women can choose to behave in what others might see as a bit of a tawdry or trashy manner, but there's no need to hand-wring and try and work out what sort of drink, drug or terrible error of their upbringing caused it and how the man was clearly a predator and the wee innocent lass didn't know what she was agreeing to.

It has jack shit to do with rape, it's to do with a man 25 years their senior taking advantage of the situation for his own gratification and amusement by sending their pics, which I would assume is actually against the law without their permission.

Do you really think two 20 year olds consented to their bodies being banded about between him and his friends, highly unlikely.

Everyone knows why men take pictures of naked girls on their phones. There is no 'private collection'. I thought it was pretty much accepted among young people that the taking and distributing of photos was the same thing.

I agree. If I went home with a ONS and consented to sexual photos, I would accept from the outset that I had no control over how they were used. I wouldn't consent unless I was happy for them to be shared. In this day and age we are supposed to be educating our young teens to be safe about what photos of themselves they allow/share, I would expect 20 year olds to understand this.

I'm really uncomfortable with how many people presume a lack of consent automatically. We weren't there. But we are assuming rapey behaviour by the DH's friend just because it's all very sleazy. There's no evidence or accusation that anything non-consensual happened.

Fuzzy, nothing in your last post says that the man was "in control". He wanted champagne and sex and photos and he got them, fine. He wanted his ego trip and his exciting sexual fantasy, fine. The fact that the women chose to participate in it doesn't mean that they were not in control of themselves or the situation. We could equally well speculate that he actually had something even more elaborate in mind and they said no. Just because the whole thing fulfilled his desires doesn't mean it wasn't also fulfilling theirs.

Ken
Is it assumed the girls consented to the photos but not to them being sent around?
Who are you addressing? There doesn't seem to be a consensus on what it is fair to assume as yet.
That they believed this man they'd just met in a bar was keeping them for his own personal use?
Perhaps they were a bit pissed and weren't really thinking it through?
Come on... Everyone knows why men take pictures of naked girls on their phones. There is no 'private collection'.
I thought there was a lot of women out there regretting having pictures taken of them - revenge porn and the like.
I thought it was pretty much accepted among young people that the taking and distributing of photos was the same thing.
I don't have any stats on that - do you?
It's not like they didn't notice he had a phone in his hand the whole time (ew.)
True, but they may have remembered it ruefully in the morning -had they been pissed/high.
Treating every woman who has some sex like she's possibly a rape victim because there has to be a reason she didn't know what she was doing is a bit strange.
Nobody is treating every woman like anything. This thread is discussing two particular young women with a particular older man, who was in control of a particular situation.
Starts to remind me of that mad 'all sex is rape' article that does the rounds every few years.
When you go off on sweeping flights of fancy like that you can be reminded of anything.
Women can choose to behave in what others might see as a bit of a tawdry or trashy manner,
Indeed
but there's no need to hand-wring and try and work out what sort of drink, drug
Why? If other indicators suggest that the man was in control?
or terrible error of their upbringing caused it
Did anyone say that?
and how the man was clearly a predator
I can only speak for myself, but I have said consistently that he is the one in control - make of that what you will - but it seems that only people minimising his role in it are using the word 'predator' as an effort to create a straw man argument.
and the wee innocent lass didn't know what she was agreeing to.
I don't think anyone would think of these young women as 'innocent' in terms of sexual activity, but they are young - young people often do stupid things they later regret, so they are likely to be a bit innocent in that sense. They are certainly a lot younger that the bloke orchestrating the whole thing. Also, there is a likelihood of alcohol/drugs in the mix- which totally clouds peoples judgement. I mean how many people soberly behave like that? And if there were drinks involved, since they were up all night, I imagine there were some uppers in the mix too - otherwise they would have all crashed out.

Yes they could have been up for it just as much as him, I concede that but I just can't get the 25 year age gap out of my mind.

At 20, do you really have full control when pissed and with an older man, makes me feel incredibly uneasy.

It's the way he talks about them, it's like they are pieces of meat and what he can get them to do etc.....perhaps I am a prude but I would hate to think my daughter was involved in this kind of sex.

Just because the whole thing fulfilled his desires doesn't mean it wasn't also fulfilling theirs.
ha ha ha

And if there were drinks involved, since they were up all night, I imagine there were some uppers in the mix too

If we have to base everything on what you're imagining rather than the facts we've been given then it becomes impossible to have a discussion. So if you're imagining that they were barely conscious after drink and drugs, didn't see the pictures being taken, and were barely aware what was happening, then yes, the OP and her DH should cut contact with this man and go to the police for good measure. And he was an evil predator and the women were his victims and hadn't consented to anything sleazy at all because they wouldn't do that.
That's all complete speculation of course, but why let that get in the way.

It's the way he talks about them, it's like they are pieces of meat and what he can get them to do etc.....perhaps I am a prude but I would hate to think my daughter was involved in this kind of sex.
I'd hate to think my son was involved in this kind of sex. But someone's son was. Us being grossed out doesn't change the facts.

If YOU think a bloke who orchestrates and controls a situation like that is a preditor - those are your words, not mine

Fuzzyeyes, I actually said 'predator' and it was you (and adora) who keep implying this. I actually said he is just a sad ass enjoying his freedom with another 2 consenting adults.

I don't understand where you get this whole taking advantage thing from. There is absolutely nothing in the OP's to suggest this, just your conjecture.
For 2 women to have been taken advantage of just because a man has a table in a club and may or may not give them champagne, does not give a high indication of how you value women and their capacity to choose.

Maybe, they took photos too? Maybe they 'took advantage' of a man flashing his cash?
Or maybe, shock horror, they like sex and wanted to have some fun?

I

When did I say barely conscious?

or 'barely aware' for that matter?

I hope the two of them were taking the piss out of him being an old sad git.

I hope they took pics of him too and send them to their friends for a laugh.

since they were up all night

We don't even know that. You're just making stuff up now, it's getting silly.

You didn't, you said they were "pissed", "high" and had taken uppers. Also that they weren't in control, hadn't thought through what they were doing, and other stuff which is not in the OP's posts. You're just making stuff up, that's my point.

Maybe, they took photos too? Maybe they 'took advantage' of a man flashing his cash?
Erm - you are taking the piss right?
Or maybe, shock horror, they like sex and wanted to have some fun?
I think it is more likely that they are paid hostesses - don't you?