tell me i need to get a grip/am in the wrong? DH and texting

[snowtuxedo]

DH's best childhood friend has just come out of a messy divorce. He is 45, same age as my DH.

He's going through a phase of heading to nightclubs in London, buying a table and champagne, and taking girls home.

He has invited DH along a few times, but I am 39 weeks pregnant, ready to pop and barely see DH with his job being what it is and him working away so much. Plus I wouldn't support DH going as a wing man for the purpose of picking up women.

Anyway, this was all very vague and irrelevant to me until I get a picture from DH of his friend sitting in his flat with two girls straddling him on each knee, everyone was clothed. He had sent it to my DH, then DH had captioned it something like "look what Dfriend is up to now..." and forwarded to me. The girls looked about 20 years old - (not underage, but DH's friend was definitely pushing a 25 year age difference.)

It made me a bit and I asked DH what his friend had been up to. He just said his friend had picked these girls up in a club, slept in a bed with them and nothing had happened. DH said he was rebounding and he found it all a bit pathetic. Fine - it's his friends' business, I thought. I asked a few more questions but DH was mostly unforthcoming, just brushed the questions off and kept repeating that it was a phase his friend was going through. I'm feeling huge and frumpy and I think maybe on some level I was worried DH would be jealous of his friend's freedom.

Well... I checked DH's phone earlier today (because I felt insecure.) DH leaves it unlocked and generally out, as I leave mine too. I looked at the conversation with his friend and it was basically lots and lots of sexual pictures of these girls naked, doing things to each other and him (his friend) and a blow-by-blow account of the "threesome" he had with them. Again this is none of my business, but it rings alarm bells with me that he is sharing these pics with DH, giving accounts of the sex to DH, that DH did not tell me the whole story and that DH is even willing to accept pictures like this. If a friend sent these to me, I would say ergh, no thanks...

Not that I have any RIGHT to know the whole story, obviously, as it is none of my business and I'm just being an insecure fool - right?

Plus although DH wasn't actively egging him on in his comments, there was definitely a "boy's club" mentality about the whole conversation. "Sometimes women are like this and sometimes women are like that. And sometimes they let you do this/that to them...And sometimes when they're really dirty they do this..."

I need to just let this whole thing well alone, don't I? Please be gentle, I think I am just hormonal and insecure...

This thread is beyond weird! If I sent a series of pictures of me naked (with resplendent fanjo on full display) and having sex with two equally naked young men to my best friend. She'd probably never speak to me again. Why would anyone ever do that?

Do we have such a poor view of men that for them it's somehow different? That it's Ok for them to do this because they are men? Just banter? Why do we excuse this shitty objectifying behaviour in men but would be horrified by it if it was middle-aged woman indulging in it. urgh. It's fucking massively weird and inappropriate. Your DH's friend was being very disrespectful to those two young women and also to you. Your dh needs to tell him to cut it out with the pics and sexual comments crap.

Sorry for typos.

*That's not what you said. You said he was is going out his way to take advantage of girls half his age

There is absolutely nothing to support that. *

Nope, I said it sounds like.

And if you think a 45 year old man who has supplied alcohol to two 20 year old girls is not supporting my opinion then fine, you stick to yours, I shall stick to my own assumption.

FuzzyEyes

It would be a much safer world for women and girls if people weren't so quick to presume consent. The OP's partner didn't query it did he? He could have said 'are you sure they are okay with you sending the's pics?'

Your default position seems to be the opposite - that consent was not forthcoming or was somehow diminished. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that was the case. Not one shred of information. In a situation that there is no evidence to the contrary, is it not appropriate to assess that consent was forthcoming?

Do we have such a poor view of men that for them it's somehow different?

I think it's more the case that men have such a poor view of women tbh.

Does he have the consent of the women to share their images in this way? Because if not, that is a gross breach of trust.

I don't think I would be happy for my dh to receive these pictures, and I a not in any insecure, or hormonal. You just don't treat women like objects to be shared around.

I would be very uncomfortable and cross about it , the friend needs to move on and find himself a new set of sleazy friends because he's obviously not looking for anything other than " just sex" and that's just what he's bragging to your husband with the photos he's sending . The whole situation is unacceptable and potentially dangerous for your relationship , what would the scenario be if you were not pregnant ? Would he have been able to tempt your husband out ?
Have a heart to heart with your husband , nip this in the bud right away , blame your fears on hormones etc etc if it makes it easier for DH to get a closer picture of how you feel .
Get this joker out of your lives

consent was not forthcoming or was somehow diminished. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that was the case

He supplied the drinks = diminished consent.
He is more than their ages put together, he took the pictures, he sent the pictures, he made the comments = he is the one in control.
He made comments suggesting he thinks of those /all women as things men do stuff to = these characteristics suggest he is a strong contender for not obtaining consent.

Furthermore, there is nothing suggesting he did get sober consent.

I find it a bit intriguing and a little that it's presumed that the friend didn't get permission for the photos as when this was posted there was a naked selfie posted on MN by a woman!

And let's assume their was consent to the threesome, all 3 presumably are somewhat promiscuous to agree, it's plausible that they gave their consent, made a stupid quick bad judgement in the moment/ may have even suggested it. And people talk about deleting the photos presumably they are text messages so not saved on his phone just in the conversation, not everybody knows that you can delete individual messages.

And many people talk about sex with their friends it doesn't mean that those people have to share their friends sex lives with their partners.

Imagine if a woman posted on here saying "I told my DH my friend spent the night with 2 guys just cuddling in bed, he didn't believe me so went through my phone saw photos that weren't for his eyes as well as comments she made about the men. He is now judging me and my friend because he invaded my privacy.

I replied to my friend but was neutral about it as I didn't want to end a 35-40 year friendship. She's having a hard time due to just getting divorced but is generally a nice woman. He's now saying that he doesn't want to interact with her.

The pictures wouldn't be an issue there would be talk of how it's wrong to invade the woman's privacy and controlling to not want the woman to interact with the friend and it's none of his business.

I just find the 25 year age cap quite defining, if they had all been the same age I might not be so critical of him - two 20 year olds being bought drinks by a 45 year old is totally different, and I'd be surprised if they consented to the pics being distributed.

Maybe the friend actually is not that happy and is a bit lost, still doesn't give him the right to abuse his situation.

Not saying the OPs OH should end their friendship, of course not but I would find his extra curricular activities pretty distasteful and certainly wouldn't want photographic evidence of it.

FuzzyEyes

Furthermore, there is nothing suggesting he did get sober consent

The points you make merely suggest that this guys is an arsehole. That's an opinion, and a perfectly valid one. But you are essentially implying that a criminal offense may have taken place, in that this man knowingly used alcohol to obtain diminished consent from the two women involved, consent that otherwise would have not been granted. There is nothing to support this whatsoever. Neither the Op, nor her OH have suggested that this was anything other than consensual.

Your default position seems to be to suspect that consent was not given or was at least diminished, without access to any facts that would support that position. That's a very slippery slope.

Alcohol = diminished consent in the law

And many people talk about sex with their friends it doesn't mean that those people have to share their friends sex lives with their partners.

You think talking about sex with your friends is the same as sending them lots and lots of photos of yourself having sex with blow by blow accounts?

Interesting...

FuzzyEyes

But you don't know how much any of them had to drink - he could have been far drunker than the two women. You just don't know.

You are essentially implying that this man could be a rapist. That strikes me as dangerous and extreme.

OP For what it's worth if you and your DH have the kind of relationship where you have no secrets / confidences and expect each other to tell the other about everything, then you have a right to feel aggrieved. Otherwise, I would let this go.

I couldn't agree more ally

FGS James, rapist, dangerous, extreme?

No, we are women who are concerned about two young 20 year olds spending the night with a 45 year old man - it's called concern, nothing else.

adora1

If you suggest that someone might have used alcohol to circumvent two young woman's voluntary consent for sex, then that is exactly what is being suggested.

we are women who are concerned about two young 20 year olds spending the night with a 45 year old man - it's called concern, nothing else.
Exactly Adora

And I am so weary and the utterly bored of spurious arguments bandied about... 'slippery slope' argument indeed.

This bitter divorcee mid-life crisis man is going to great lengths to paint a picture of 'livin the dream' to his other male friends. That is all he cares about. Male approval.
He doesn't seem to be showing so much effort to treat the young women to a good time. Just boasts about what they "let" him do.
Misogynist

BTW james you seem a bit too heavily invested in this.

And people talk about deleting the photos presumably they are text messages so not saved on his phone just in the conversation, not everybody knows that you can delete individual messages.

I would delete the entire text conversation if someone sent me their home porn photos, as I wouldn't want it on my phone! would not want to see any of my friends having sex with anybody. I suspect he does know how as was quite capable of sending the OP one of the photos. It is very different than discussing the sex your having whilst single with a random(s) to a friend.

Personally I think the OP did violate her DH privacy and we can agree on that but I think many people have been tempted when they have felt sucpicous, I have seen many a post where people have looked at partners emails/phones and discovered all sorts of things and other times nothing. So whilst don't agree with it persay the OP's husband did lie to her about it and she looked at his phone, and discovered this and I don't think many people would be happy to find it, Male or Female.

Personally I couldn't give a damm if my partner looked at my phone, all he would find is a lot of Pokemon activity :)

Furthermore, there is nothing suggesting he did get sober consent.

FFS of course there isn't. If a man told me he'd had a ONS and added "it was totally consensual", I would be wondering what the fuck other sexual encounters he'd had that made him need to specify that this one was consensual.

I'm all for clear consent, explicit when necessary, but to say that unconnected third parties need to be informed of consent when it hasn't been called into question is ludicrous.

If the DH had replied "wow were they up for you sharing these pics" and the sleazy friend had replied then we'd have something to discuss. Or if the pictures looked like they'd been taken secretly. But without any evidence or any accusations, can we stop equating "sleaze" with "does stuff without consent"? It does no one any favours.

Latte blimey. What an aggressive tone there is to your posts.

Nope, won't be apologising thanks. You weren't the only PP I was referring to, hence not quoting you directly. It's MN not a court of law. I didn't think it would be necessary and, even with your second post, I don't think I misrepresented or misunderstood you. You've just reiterated the same point again that you think sending photos to your mates that contain your genetalia is OK. The OP (and many others aside) do not share that view. That's all. Just a difference of opinion.

And I am so weary and the utterly bored of spurious arguments bandied about... 'slippery slope' argument indeed.

Oh please. There is nothing spurious about being uncomfortable with "consent was coerced" being a default position for analysing casual sex, especially when there is nothing to support the notion. If you can't see the danger in that line of thinking then you must be very bored indeed

GiraffesAndButterflies

I've been trying to say the same thing as you, but you were a lot clearer and far more succinct!