House... Baby.. No ring.

[littlerabbitface]

Have nc'd for this.

I suppose this is like a WWYD.

Basically me and oh live together, own the house together, have a baby, own a car jointly, finances are pooled. You get the idea. We act like a married couple.

However we are not a married couple.

Not even engaged.

At first it never bothered me really, but now we have a baby and him and oh have the same surname and I have a different one, I'll admit it does really get to me that we aren't married. I feel like a bit of an idiot.

Before anyone says well why did you buy a house and have a baby with him, well because I thought we would get married and I wasn't bothered if that came before or after a baby!

Now I'm starting to doubt it'll happen. We've been together four years. Neither of us have been married before. He's in his early thirties, I'm in mid twenties.

I know there is no real rush, and realistically we couldn't afford a wedding for maybe a year or two. (Though I'd be happy with a registry office and a nice meal! He wouldn't!)

When I've spoken to him about it he mainly just says we will do it in time, we will get there eventually, not yet, or in a few years, or what's the rush it won't change anything (technically it won't I suppose, obviously legally but in terms of our relationship nothing would change as we're pretty much living as a married couple)

He thinks I want to rush into it and doesn't see why I'm so bothered about doing it because it won't change anything. I say that if it won't change anything then why not just do it instead of putting it off for years.

I guess I'm just a bit fed up and this is just a bit of a whinge. I don't want to leave over this obviously as we have a good relationship, but I want to be married to him and I don't want to have to nag about it.

WWYD in this situation. Can you change the mindset of someone who is not very bothered? He is quite laid back anyway so it comes as no surprise that he is in no rush to do this.

Should I bring it up? Should I forget about it? Should I resign myself to the fact it may never happen?

I am hoping he is secretly thinking about it but I doubt that very much.

I need advice!

I never understand how people are ok with the commitment of having a baby which links you forever and a day but 'aren't ready' to get married which can be ended of neccessary.

He doesn't want to marry you.

He sees a marriage as more of a tie than a baby.

Of course he doesn't t want a resister office and a meal. That's easiest arranged.

Life with him, controlling your marital status, or you leave to be free to find someone who can be honest and wants the same as you.

Glad you're still working (FT? If not FT and/or you earn less then you're still financially vulnerable).

If you think he'd happily sign legal docs, then great, get legal advice and go for that asap! It'll likely cost more than a marriage certificate mind you.

Why don't you contact a solicitor and ask them what can be put in place to replicate marriage legally? e.g. wills, who acts as next of kin in an emergency etc. Include things like what would happen financially if you were to split up, and who'd do/pay what for any DC (including any future DC who may or may not be disabled and need extra care).

then go to DP and ask him to do all that stuff.

At the moment ALL of you are more vulnerable, including your DC.

Personally, I think it's a huge flaw in the law, and the legal stuff needs to catch up. Loads of people are put off by the idea of marriage/wedding because of all the gumph and tradition, but for the children, and any SAHP, it's a huge problem not to be married.

If he won't even do paperwork to protect everyone, including himself and DC, then you do have a big problem. If he happily does it, then a wedding can come along later as a big party to celebrate the family life you've built together.

He doesn't want to marry me. That much is clear. I just want to be able to understand his reasons why. As some else said his reasons are contradictory.

These are his reasons so far just to summarise

• he doesn't see the rush
• he wants a 'proper wedding' and we cannot afford that right now. (True we cannot but we would get engaged and save for a big white tacky wedding if he really wanted)
• it won't change anything (posters have established it will)
• we have years to do it (also true but fairly sure this is just an excuse!)

Trying to think of others!

dozer I'm in mat leave but will be going back full time, I earn slightly less but not considerably. Would be fine financially on my own if we did split or whatever.

'rushing into it' after 4 years, baby and house?

Ask him to imagine there was something you could to, that was really, really important to him, but that you didn't really care about. You could do it, could not, no big deal. How would he feel like, if he really wanted something, but you said you basically didn't care?

If he really thinks the big party is an issue, I would offer to do registry office right now, and you can have the big party later.

Am considering going to see a solicitor. Will mention it to him and see what he says.

Seems silly to potentially spend hundreds rather than just go to a registry office though doesn't it!

Me and DH were together 10 years before getting married... I was also not too fussed about 'the big day' but he gave his reasons for wanting the 'big day' and we decided to wait and save. Unless you have reason not to trust your DP then I'd believe him that he wants to. As you have a DC involved get some legal bits sorted to protect yourself and as others have said then draw up a time line for saving and dates to aim for.

You have to make sure that when you return to work he does his full 50% of days off work to cover child sickness etc. You cannot allow yourself to be vulnerable to 'mummy tracking' at work.

I think it was wrong to assume you'd get married with no firm discussion about it. Or even time frame.

In terms of WWYD - it depends on how important marriage was to me. If it was bugging me all the time, then I'd leave.

I'm a bit traditional in that respect, because I refused to live with DP at the time (now DH) before marriage and without being engaged. I didn't want to take on the role of wife without being one, but that's just my view.

If it suits both parties to live together and works for them, that's absolutely fine.

I believe if a man wants to marry you he will do so without proding and pushing and now you have a DC, he's probably not bothered about marriage.

If a woman definetly wants to get married, I don't recommend having a DC, because it's much harder to walk away if you don't get what you want. Because you also have to consider your DCs.

hope I will make sure that happens. I'd be very surprised if he had a problem with that.

Get the legal protections in place NOW and then he has plenty time to " think about it " .

Make sure that he is the one to take time off work if your baby is ill / leave early to do nursery pick ups etc - you have already lost 6 months or more off your career/ pension .

Do you both work full time ?

sandy I'm probably a bit naive but I didn't think we needed a serious conversation or time frame, we'd talked a bit about and at seemed like we were on the same page.

Obviously we aren't now but lie. You say I'm sort of stuck now anyway.

I'm happy and don't want to leave, but if I didn't have a baby it's entirely possible I'd feel differently.

kr1stina

We both will when I go back, yes.

BTW a ring offers no legal protection, it's " pieces of paper " that count

eg marriage certficates, pensions, powers of attorney etc

Don't waste your time chasing a ring

Not silly at all to proceed with the legal stuff and spend money on it (sounds like you can afford this too, since you say you'd still be OK financially if you broke up) - this will provide all of you with some protection pending resolving the marriage issue.

Plus, as a PP highlights, it will reveal his true attitude and commitment. If he balks at the legal stuff that could mean he'd have to pay more maintenance, share his current or indeed future assets etc with you if you divorced, then his reasons for not wanting marriage are not as he's stated thus far!

You just need to explain that for whatever reason, this has become very important to you, and that you'd prefer to go to a registry office and be married, and you don't want a big fancy wedding.

That it's important to you, and you'd appreciate him discussing what his reasons are against doing it now rather than just saying "one day". As frankly, if he's "not sure" now, with a (planned?) child involved, then he never will be.

dozer yes could afford it.

If be surprised if he wouldn't sign anything because he doesn't own anything that isn't half mine. Literally everything we has has been bought and paid for between us. He didn't bring anything of any real value to the relationship, neither did I.

If we split I wouldn't want any maintenance, I'd rather we had 50/50 custody and nobody paid anybody anything. The thought of being away from my child half the week breaks my heart, but I do feel that's the best and fairest way around it. Unless there is any reason this can't happen like childcare/living arrangements.

aye yes baby was planned.

As you rightly state you are not a married couple. The law as it stands sees you as two separate individuals unrelated to each other. What is his is his and what is yours is yours. He certainly has reasons for saying as he does and it is certainly in your interest to find out exactly why he is not "bothered".

Re your comment:-
"I think it partly could be because of his parents, to be fair they have a shit marriage and always have had but yet remain together"

I think this amongst other issues has also played a huge part in his decision not to marry, after all we learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents. I think as well that if he wanted to marry you he would have done so by now. You are perhaps to him his "she will do for now" woman and he is not that into you. I also think that if he were to leave he would go on to actually marry the next woman he meets. That is certainly not an unknown scenario.

You have left your own self in a very vulnerable position; you have handed over all your power and control to him (also your child has his surname) and he holds all the cards here. Some time sitting in front of a Solicitor may help clear any misconceptions or myths lodged in his head.

If he got run over by a bus next week you could very well end up relying on his parents goodwill towards you and your child. You will be in a poor legal position quite apart from having to deal with your own grief at his passing. I think you would also feel very angry with him for leaving you in such a position in the first place.

You can have all the legal protections in place as far as possible but it still will not give you the full legal protection that marriage does. He knows this as well.

As some else said his reasons are contradictory

They sure are!

he doesn't see the rush

"me and oh live together, own the house together, have a baby, own a car jointly, finances are pooled"

I'm not seeing the "rush" he is referring to. Did he feel "rushed" when you pooled your finances with him and went joint on major purchases? The not-ready-for-marriage argument is surely trumped by the fact you have a child together?

If he's got a problem with the lifetime commitment idea, he needs to think about his role as a father and the huge commitment he has already made.

he wants a 'proper wedding' and we cannot afford that right now

At the risk of sounding sexist, how many men really want a bit white flouncy wedding? Isn't his reason more a delay tactic, seeing as (1) you don't even want a big production of a wedding yourself (2) he knows you both cannot afford it so it delays everything until you can afford it.

His wanting a "proper wedding" didn't get in the way of all the other stuff you've done together/afforded.

it won't change anything

If it won't change anything, what objection could he possibly have, then? Why couldn't he do it just to make you happy? (It does change things of course - in a good way).

we have years to do it

The other stuff you've done could have waited years too, but didn't. Why this, then? It takes very little time at all to organise a wedding (I speak from experience) if it is kept simple.

I am not surprised you are frustrated about this situation. It is very difficult to resolve now, but you have a right to be heard by your partner and for him to take this seriously.

"If we split I wouldn't want any maintenance, I'd rather we had 50/50 custody and nobody paid anybody anything. The thought of being away from my child half the week breaks my heart, but I do feel that's the best and fairest way around it. Unless there is any reason this can't happen like childcare/living arrangements".

Well you say that now but I do not think you are thinking properly; if you and he were to split he is still financially responsible for his child. You could well screw your own self over financially and emotionally with that attitude. As the child's primary carer you could well be with your child most of the week anyway. Do you think he would want to spend 50% of the time with his child?. Some people do find it all too easy to walk completely away from their family once the parents have parted.

I'm a divorce lawyer. Marriage does make a difference. If you don't get married then you must make sure:

savings are split equally
your name is on the deeds to the house
you put as much into your pension as into his
you don't compromise your career in any way
you make wills

If you're good enough to live with and have a baby with then you're bloody good enough to marry. I wouldn't have got that far without it but you are and he's not being fair to you.

He seems to think he's a good enough catch already . The legal stand thing asides he should want to marry you. I've seen too many friends and relatives (all women) in the same situation. Wanting to get married but the man not wanting to. It leads to resentment and rows. Really unfair and unpleasant. It's different if neither party wants to marry but not when one does and the other just won't commit. I feel for you OP.