11yo DS emotionally abusing me

[jayho]

He's following the script, I don't know what to do to stop him.

For background I split from his extremely EA father nearly six years ago. Ex assaulted DS in February and they have had no contact since. It was just the two of them in the room so one person's word against the other. I was offered the option to prosecute but opted for SS support in the interests of them maintaining a relationship. Ex maintains DS is lying and that he will not see him as he feels 'vulnerable to false accusations'.

DS does not know this, he says he doesn't want to see his father and that's that.

To be frank, DS is hard work. He's anxious and demanding, very oppositional and negative and can be aggressive. I have a strong sense that ex has grasped at a 'get out of jail' card. I know he and his new partner have struggled with DS's behaviour and now he doesn't have to anymore.

So the best interpretation I can put on the situation at home at the moment is that various authorities listening to DS seems to have given him a sense of entitlement. Since he stopped seeing his father he has become more and more controlling of me. I don't know if it's through anxiety or what but it is driving me mad.

We have a number of on-going flashpoints. One is bedtime. So I take younger DS to bed first, we have a story and a cuddle then I go in to 11yo. Elder has taken to repeatedly bursting into younger DS's room demanding to know when I will come in to him. I have explained to him a thousand times that if he keeps doing this I will be longer. He always acknowledges that I'm right but then does exactly the same thing the next night.

So last night before I took younger boy up I carefully and deliberately said to 11yo 'I'm taking boy to bed, please go up at 9, have a wee, brush your teeth, go in to your bed and I will come him when he's settled. Please do not come in to boy's room, I will come to you when he's settled. Do you understand?' and asked him to repeat it back to me to make sure he was clear.

30 mins later he bursts in to the room. He does it four more times. Eventually 7yo says 'don't worry mummy, I'll go to sleep on my own to stop him shouting'.

Finally got them both settled at 10.30 pm and I'm exhausted.

This morning 11yo absolutely denied that it happened. He came in once, he didn't shout. I was asleep and dreamt my version of events. He's adamant.

What can I do? Can anyone propose a strategy for dealing with this? I feel like I'm going mad and being bullied by a child in my own home. It's awful

I can sense the worry and concern in your posts. I wouldn't say (based on what you've written) that your DS is emotionally abusive. He is not "following the script." I don't think it is helpful to describe his behaviour in terms generally applied to adults in romantic/partnered relationships.

He is a child who sounds very anxious and insecure. He was assaulted by his father just a few months ago. That must have been an extraordinarily traumatic experience, to the extent that he has decided to have no contact with his father. And even though the lack of contact was the child's own choice, he must feel a deep sense of rejection since his dad has evidently shrugged his shoulders and seems uninterested in seeing him.

So it doesn't surprise me at all that your son is acting out, both as a response to the trauma of the assault and as a means of testing that you will not reject him, no matter how badly he behaves. He needs to know that you will be there for him in a way his dad is not. Of course, that does not mean you must accept his behaviour without challenging it. Far from it! But it may be an explanation as to why he is behaving this way.

Have you heard of Beyond Consequences, Logic, and Control? I know some people who absolutely swear by this approach. It was developed for children with insecure attachments who displayed much more extreme behaviour than your son. There are books and DVDs that describe the approach, and I believe the founders do telephone consultations. It might be worth looking into.

Good luck.

Yes to go and see the GP again.

maybe post this in the SN section too. I suspect you will get some very good advice from the people there.

maybe post this in the SN section too. I suspect you will get some very good advice from the people there.

Yeah, this would be a good one for Special Needs Children. There are a lot of people who really know what they are talking about there. I've had a lot of help.

Your son sounds like he is incredibly anxious, I don't think he is deliberately needing you. He was physically assaulted by someone who should be protecting him. I can't believe that you think ss made him feel entitled! Your poor boy! Is he struggling to get to sleep without you? If he needs you to fall asleep, then it is likely that you are his safety net. My son is autistic and he needs me to fall asleep at night. We are implementing a sleep program with a gradual change of routine, which should end with my ds falling asleep alone in his own bed. This book is fantastic and is really helping my son so I can thoroughly recommended it.

www.amazon.co.uk/What-When-You-Dread-Your/dp/1433803186/ref=sr_1_fkmr2_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1468255934&sr=8-1-fkmr2&keywords=What+happens+when+you+dread+your+bed

I haven't read any of the other posts, but your son could be suffering from ptsd and should be receiving counselling for what he has been through. One thing I have learnt, is that there is always a reason for every behaviour. Your son is far too young to be written off as emotionally abusive 😢. I hope that you can get support for your son and get to the bottom of his cry for help.

How about inviting him in to the bedroom and involving him in the process (counter intuitive I know)? Asking him to read to the younger sibling or agree that you'll have a five minute chat, all three of you together and then you'll both leave together? I know what you describe is only one of his behaviours but I think you need to a) change the dynamic and b) give him the chance to take a bit of control and c) show him he's important. I might be wrong but I've been through this particular situation with my DS. He's not EA, he's just trying to send you a message about how he's feeling. Also, I think a male influence is very important in a young boy's life - do you have a brother/uncle/family friend who could model a bit of good testosterone management?! There's an old adage, 'if you want someone to change their behaviour, first change yours' this (I find) is often pertinent when dealing with children. Good luck OP, it's a tricky business.

also there are alot of PDA support groups on Facebook - it was a relief to discover others going through the same and they were literally a lifesaver at times when my daughter hit peak PDA

I don't think the OP is in any way writing her son off. She is speaking from a place of real difficulty - even desperation - and has been reflective and thoughtful in every one of her posts. There's a lot to unpack here - good on you OP for reaching out on this. Things can only get better from here and I wish you the best of luck.

jayho - i havent read all posts but just wanted to say I know exactly where you are coming from - i too feel i am being emotionally abused by my kids -I was in an EA marriage for 20 years without knowing - I thought "our" parenting was ok & pretty normal - i now know it was all based on fear & punishment -rather than support & encouragment but some of it was so subtle that it went unnoticed - it is only by going through an extremely acrimonius divorce process ive seen the truth - im trying to undo 13yrs of "bad" parenting before i can replace it with good its a nightmare - the kids have learnt abusive and manipulative traits just by living in this dynamic - i came across this it may help you www.psychologytoday.com/printmail/1088468?destination=blog/when-kids-call-the-shots/201604/the-3-types-children-who-bully-their-parents

www.psychologytoday.com/blog/when-kids-call-the-shots/201604/the-3-types-children-who-bully-their-parents?destination=blog/when-kids-call-the-shots/201604/the-3-types-children-who-bully-their-parents

Maybe this should be in SN. Many of the posters who claim that a child can not be abusive are presumably not knowledgeable about SN and particularly PDA. Many of those children have severe theory of mind issues, lacking empathy, and friendship issues, whilst having anxiety, incredibly high intelligence and the most manipulative, controlling and abusive traits.

I recognise this though without the lying and manipulation. DS2 is being assessed for ASD and that is what the behaviour described here made me think of. Plus anxiety, which DS2 also has. I get what you mean about it being triggering if you have been in an abusive relationship, but that is separate. DS2 behavior is not calculated. It is itself triggered.

Could you combine their bedtimes for a bit? Read the same book to them both, kisses and cuddles to 7yo then take 11yo to bed, have a few more mins chat/ reading something else etc and then Na-might to him too?

This sounds like he's regressing and reaching out for security from you.

I think some talking therapy might help, or some supper for you to help him. The Hampton Trust does support for DC affected by dv

For what is worth OP, my 3 years old kept coming in the bedroom when I was settling baby for her naps and would shout/jump/run to wake her up/prevent sleeping then laugh about it (he wanted to play with her and was rewarded by making her laugh after she woke up). I took away the reward by systematically putting him in time out in his room if disobeying/not complying after 3rd time asked or waking her up. Put a gate on the door or there is no chance he'd stay in. A combination of that and him being able to stay with us on the tablet if he is being quiet (positive reward for positive behaviour) seems to work. He is also an anxious child but his anxiety seems to be lower when we follow a routine and I act very confidently/have more self esteem (i.e. I tell him I know exactly what to do/am smart/strong whatever and mean it, while before I always doubted myself and felt crap, a failure and I think he knew even if I didn't tell him).

I have just read the opening paragraph again. I agree with all the advice about seeking GP support, but in a sense, the opening paragraph says his dad is abusive, suggests his dad and new GF would rather not have him there, says he has been assaulted, there has been police and SS involvement, dad doesn't want to see him any more, he doesn't want to see dad - younger brother is still seeing dad (where is older son at handovers?), and he probably sees younger brother are getting better treatment? Are you worried that DS2 is in a vulnerable position? You say you have SS support - what help are they giving?

Yes, see GP. Also Women's Aid have children support workers. Also, you need some support yourself.

One thing... How exactly do you think allowing contact with a violent and abusive man will benefit your children?

At kindest, what behaviour do you think they will learn?

If your ex is too abusive for you, and your eldest, then for the love of god why allow him to have the 7 yo.

Stop contact. However you need to do it, stop unsupervised access.

Sorry I cannot see anything as abusive of bullying in the behaviour described.

Oblomov, I believe it's a slippery slope to see ASD/PDA traits as manipulative and abusive.

It's far easier to get a handle on things when you can see them for what they are - autism and high anxiety which leads to this behaviour.
If there was a deliberate choice to behave like this then yes, abusive and bullying would be a fair description, as actions in PDA's case are an immediate reaction to a trigger, not a thought out action, it is something that needs support and help to learn more appropriate reactions.

Hissy, I agree with you. I stopped contact and DC behaviour has settled so noticeably. Still ASD possibly but without additional anxiety and the violence almost gone. But it is a court route. That is why I asked what SS support there was. My understanding is that what they can do is limited without a court order (which can be challenged obvs).

I have contacted Family Mediation Services and asked for their help. I propose suspending contact until this is resolved through mediation.

it is a very hard position to be in, but that is the best decision as your family is still being harmed by this. Try and make sure you have support for you too.

Thanks Cocoa.

Does anyone have any experience of this? I mean suspending contact. Am I doing the right thing?

I can PM you, but I don't want to put more details on line.

Thanks, I'd be grateful

The vehement denial etc is interesting for me.

Write things out and laminate them. Your laminator is your friend.

Write out expectations. For BOTH children. I personally use the computer so I have multiple copies. Laminate them and put copies in prominent places. Laminators and pouches are relatively inexpensive.

I work with a wonderful lady. She is also loving and kind but regularly flies off the handle. Notes and reminders help. We change them every few days. Different wording and colours. Little reminders help her to manage her anxiety and fears of expectations.

When your son says that he is happy to earn no pocket money get him to write it down. Date it and then laminate it.

Don't ever use it as anything other than "we discussed this at the time and you agreed that you didn't want pocket money which is why you wrote this note" then don't enter into a discussion.

the screwdriver incident is frightening. I agree with all the pp who have advised that you seek help

Okay, have DC on holiday so it will be later on