11yo DS emotionally abusing me

[jayho]

He's following the script, I don't know what to do to stop him.

For background I split from his extremely EA father nearly six years ago. Ex assaulted DS in February and they have had no contact since. It was just the two of them in the room so one person's word against the other. I was offered the option to prosecute but opted for SS support in the interests of them maintaining a relationship. Ex maintains DS is lying and that he will not see him as he feels 'vulnerable to false accusations'.

DS does not know this, he says he doesn't want to see his father and that's that.

To be frank, DS is hard work. He's anxious and demanding, very oppositional and negative and can be aggressive. I have a strong sense that ex has grasped at a 'get out of jail' card. I know he and his new partner have struggled with DS's behaviour and now he doesn't have to anymore.

So the best interpretation I can put on the situation at home at the moment is that various authorities listening to DS seems to have given him a sense of entitlement. Since he stopped seeing his father he has become more and more controlling of me. I don't know if it's through anxiety or what but it is driving me mad.

We have a number of on-going flashpoints. One is bedtime. So I take younger DS to bed first, we have a story and a cuddle then I go in to 11yo. Elder has taken to repeatedly bursting into younger DS's room demanding to know when I will come in to him. I have explained to him a thousand times that if he keeps doing this I will be longer. He always acknowledges that I'm right but then does exactly the same thing the next night.

So last night before I took younger boy up I carefully and deliberately said to 11yo 'I'm taking boy to bed, please go up at 9, have a wee, brush your teeth, go in to your bed and I will come him when he's settled. Please do not come in to boy's room, I will come to you when he's settled. Do you understand?' and asked him to repeat it back to me to make sure he was clear.

30 mins later he bursts in to the room. He does it four more times. Eventually 7yo says 'don't worry mummy, I'll go to sleep on my own to stop him shouting'.

Finally got them both settled at 10.30 pm and I'm exhausted.

This morning 11yo absolutely denied that it happened. He came in once, he didn't shout. I was asleep and dreamt my version of events. He's adamant.

What can I do? Can anyone propose a strategy for dealing with this? I feel like I'm going mad and being bullied by a child in my own home. It's awful

Of course it is possible. I do despair at the view that children are innocent.

Even if the child is trying to be emotionally abusive (and what does that mean in the context of somebody who is not emotionally mature?) the parent is still responsible for them. It's not a case of being innocent or not innocent.

A parent child relationship is completely different to a relationship between two grown adults.

OP the advice you were given on MN was for dealing with an abusive partner, not your child.

You need to find a way to shift mindsets (although that may also involve seeking professional help).

They can't share, he has too many rituals around bedtime, bursting in to 7yo room seems to be a new one.

Taking 30 mins plus to put a 7 year old to bed is too long imo.
It would be very hard not to appear to favour a kind gentle child, your younger one, over an angry difficult older one. Can you find some lovable side to your older ones nature, right now he is the one who needs you most.
It's hard to see that time with a previously emotionally abusive DF would help him - though I can see you would feel left with the problem but in the end that might be best forDS.
Try to get some outside support, teens thread here or a start

We are in Germany where there are different options to the UK, but he sees a child psychologist alone and in a group. He's been giving him methods to use at home to reduce his anxiety, and really just the talking has been great.

Are his rituals on the obsessive side do you think?

He's 11. He's a child. He's not your ex.

You need to be patient here, I'm afraid. And yes, he's relentless - children usually are. He's upset and confused and jealous and uncertain of your love. So you need to provide stability above all.

And I would suggest talking with professionals who can help you. I am sorry you are going through this. But please don't label your child. He's a victim here.

Merry that's why I'm asking for advice on how to deal with a child when it feels like he is being abusive and manipulative. I don't like having these feelings about my child. It's very odd to be in a conversation with a child and to think 'you're trying to make me feel bad, you've twisted that round' etc.

I think you may need to lower your expectations regarding your birthday present. Try to not let it upset you. He may have had the best of intentions but when the reality of spending all his saved up money hit him, he just found it too difficult to be generous. He is still a child, it takes time to learn to enjoy being selfless. It is good that he is able to save, at least.

Thanks, I think there's consistent advice about bedtime. I will take it on board.

I know he's vulnerable, I know I need to be consistent, and it is hard.

It's very odd to be in a conversation with a child and to think 'you're trying to make me feel bad, you've twisted that round' etc.

If you're assuming the worst of him - assuming that he's doing what he's doing because he wants to hurt you - then you will respond in a way that keeps the cycle going.
Perhaps try and give him the benefit of the doubt. See him as struggling rather than abusive. Yes, it is very hard, very wearing but you can really make a difference this way.
The Explosive Child is a really good book for children that struggle to manage their emotions.

Also, the responses here have been really useful, he makes me feel like I'm being emotionally abused, that's my issue, not his. I need help to separate them out.

Thanks

I don't think the posters suggesting you change how you're doing things are being helpful. By all means, revisit bedtime and work out a new system, but the most important thing for him is consistency. He is pushing at the limits you've set. What are the consequences when he interrupts the 7yo's bedtime? If there aren't any, how about 5 mins less time each time he comes in? So bedtime gets earlier the more he shows you that he is not ready for the responsibility of a more grown up routine.

The other behaviour which needs consequences is his aggressiveness to you. What were the consequences of threatening you? If none beyond not giving in, I would suggest walking away (or sending him out of the room) and saying you'll talk with him when he's called down.

A lot of the stuff he's saying you must try to ignore. Tell yourself repeatedly that this is a stage. That's really important. Abuse is about making your own needs more important than the other person's. That's what all teenagers do with their parents, so much of their behaviour is similar to abusive adults. The big, big difference is that if you hold firm with the limits and consequences, you give them a good chance to leave the immature behaviours behind.

Lastly and most importantly, make sure you have support for yourself. A good friend you can offload to, failing that a thread on MN, in Teenagers.

When my DS was small, he went though some difficult phases, at school as well as home. I made a conscious decision to only focus on the positive aspects of his behaviour. I corrected any negative behaviour, at the time, but decided not to dwell on it, at all. It really really helped. Now I get comments concerning how polite and well behaved he is.

Your parenting has been successful in some respects. Your son can save. He understands that he can work in return for money and, at least on some level, wants to do this. He had the intention of saving for a birthday present for you - even if when it came to the crunch he could not spend the money he sees this as a good thing to do. He is close enough to you to seek comfort from you to say goodnight.

jayho, that may be your initial reaction, but can you shift your perception to "you are feeling overwhelmed, you can't deal with your emotions, you feel insecure, you are immature"?

Also, what is your relationship like with him when things are calm? Has the default position become that you leave him alone when things are going well, so most of your interactions are negative? (this is an easy habit for any parent to fall into).

I'm not saying that you have an easy job ahead of you. All children are not the same and some are more difficult to parent for many, many reasons.

30 minutes in your 7 year olds room, before he burst in, and then he did it several more times? How fucking long does it take you to put your 7 year old to bed? Bloody hell, why? It must feel like to the 11 year old that you're hiding from him/avoiding him all evening. In the end even the 7 year old told you he'll go to sleep on his own - like most children do, with the exception of babies and some toddlers. What on earth are you doing in the 7 year olds bedroom every night for so long? He doesn't need you to watch him fall asleep, get a grip.

As for the rest, you have got a good system with pocket money it seems, he has specific jobs he knows he has to do, he's given the opportunity and reminders of what to do and consequences through the week, and if he does his chores he gets his money and if he doesn't he doesn't. That's great, he's trying to push the boundaries about it and see if he can get away with not doing it, you just need to be consistent with the rewards and consequences so he learns that the rules are the rules and he can't strop his way around them.

What about completely mixing it up? Stop the chores, change the bedtime routine, stop explaining things afterwards.

Tell him you're all having a holiday from the stress. Tell him it's for two weeks. Do some fun stuff. Go out. See what effect it has. If it has no effect, it's not useful. If it has a positive effect then you need to find a way to build up to more normal life again.

I have no idea if this will work, but it can't go on like this, can it?

Yy to looking for the positives in everything he does. And finding ways to have enjoyable times together.

I think Julia's idea is really good.

I'm surprised that half an hour at bedtime is seen as being so long. I'd easily spend half an hour putting the kids to bed as we'd read a chapter of our latest book. Obviously with two children wanting to stay separate it's more complicated, but I can understand how you would easily spend a while with your younger one.

NRTFT but I don't this the child is displaying EA. He has has some deeply unsettling and destabilising experiences in his young life. He still wants kisses and cuddles like a child but feels he has had to cope with the 'adult world' as a piggy-in-the-middle in his parents dysfunctional relationship - which robbed him of his childhood - having to be a grown up and deal with this. He is angry and resentful about this. He wants to be a kid again - but he is having more adulthood heaped upon him - having to 'earn' money. Furthermore his mother projects 'adult' motives onto his childish behaviour driven by his childish wants and needs that were never satisfied by his dysfunctional parenting. Please OP let your DS be kid, view him as a kid, let him regress a bit if that's what he needs to do to heal. Maybe even spoil him a bit. Acknowledge with him that he has been through a lot in his young life and it is okay to be angry and sad about that. Ask him what you can do to make him feel.more supported and secure. The entitlement he displays is because he knows he has been robbed of something (his childhood/sense of security) and he is acting out on the resident parent because he wants what he has lost back. Please solve this now before he is flooded with hormones and becomes pubescent. This is a small window of opportunity to heal your relationship with him. Seize it OP.

Do you have any one to one time just with you and your eldest son?

He has been through a lot with his father. He sounds anxious and the rituals sound like he might be exhibiting obsessive behaviour.

Some children find the pressure of pocket money in return for good behaviour/chores too much and will behave better/do more when not incentivised by pocket money.

What are the good things in his life that are not dependent or conditional? Focused one-to-one time with his parent/treats etc? I think when there is an anxiety having something firm and solid to hang on to is very important.

I also think some of this childish behaviours are... because he is a child. How do you react to them? Do you react more and give more attention when his behaviour is worse?

Sorry OP - this is really hard for you. But I agree with others that you need to let him be a kid. I wouldn't expect an 11yo to spend his pocket money on a birthday present for me.

Thanks you Julia and Merry good ideas.

re bedtime - the 30 mins is the difference in their bedtimes,

Our relationship outside his outbursts is fine, he is sweet and affectionate. The outbursts are unpredictable. One day he will happily plod along the next he won't. I have tried identifying triggers one clear one was being asked to do anything shortly before leaving for school so I've stopped that.

I didn't expect him to spend his money on me, he proposed it. It was the scale of the reaction that was worrying, he absolutely exploded.

We have lots of time together as a pair now he doesn't see his father as his brother still has regular contact. I have focussed on making this time special so that we do 'us' things to try to help him.

You need to stop making an 11 yo responsible for your emotions. He isn't. You are.
You may feel he's abusing you but that's not his fault. He doesn't make you feel anything.

Are you having counselling yourself?