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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

"I really think most reasonable and fair minded people would agree"

159 replies

Offred · 04/07/2016 20:59

If someone said this to you when you expressed your own personal opinion and the reasoning behind it on something entirely subjective (think personal opinions on what values are important to each person), followed by 'come on, I think you must surely accept that most people share my view!'

How would you react?

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Offred · 05/07/2016 22:55

On the plus side DD is talking as though she may go to school as planned tomorrow (at morning break) and she went to bed almost at the right time (15 mins late) and almost in her bed (on the floor in her bedroom rather than on the sofa downstairs).

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AndTheBandPlayedOn · 05/07/2016 23:09

That's good -your dd. Mine is 8 and still crawls in with us. We put a camp cot in our room forget which works until the dawn chorus of birds start then she is there again. I have to be the bad guy and enforce change.
I need to lose 50 pounds (psst 40 will do). My older daughter (22) needs to drop 100 (med side effect weight gain) so we are going to be gym rats together.

AndTheBandPlayedOn · 05/07/2016 23:17

X forget?
The more you write about bf ... Confused
Fair weather friend too. Very selfish.

If the friend zone isn't quite enough of a boundary...could there be friendly acquaintance category (if the sex is good Blush ) . There may be valid reasons to keep the relationship going as long as you can tolerate him.

Offred · 05/07/2016 23:29

Sex is becoming increasingly crap and all about him and haven't actually had any for almost a month now anyway.

The question I am pondering just now is if it's looking likely that DD is not gonna manage any time away from me anyway will I really have time to miss him/see him anyway?

It may be a natural time to break it off but I fear a drama, once when I broke it off he let himself into my house while I was sleeping because he was desperate to explain that it was a misunderstanding...

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Offred · 05/07/2016 23:31

And just making excuses and letting it wane seems like a better plan... Ghosting essentially which I usually think is cruel but meh, I don't think I could trust him with an explanation of that's the route I choose.

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Summerlovinf · 06/07/2016 00:06

Offred, I've seen loads of good advice from you to others over the years on this board. Please read your own stuff back with a fraction of the compassion you show others. This is all about him and you are being far too understanding and accommodating to his, frankly appalling, behaviour. It doesn't sound like fun at all, or an easy going uncommitted relationship. You said yourself you think no one else would put up with him...so why is it ok for you to put up with him? I'm saddened to read about you getting treated like this. I hope you find a way out soon. X

AndTheBandPlayedOn · 06/07/2016 00:30

Go with your gut. An easy extended tapering off may bring him around to making his own idea of ending it.

Did you see the Grey Rock strategy linked on a recent (narc?) thread? That might work for you. Be dull like all of the grey rocks we walk by everyday. Don't be a shiny or interesting one that will attract attention-is basically what it said.

He does sound all about him. Does he ring the bells for narcissism?

Offred · 06/07/2016 00:48

No, that's why it is hard. He is someone who finds it hard to be who he would like to be and has not developed the necessary skills for coping with adult life and relationships. He is hurt by letting me down and upsetting me, sometimes he covers his hurt with these ego defence strategies of being angry and deflecting it to me.

The question is more one of how long do I put up with the constant let downs and attacks rather than one of he is just a bad guy being bad cos it gets him what he wants.

What life do I want and is it one that includes giving him time to sort himself out/putting up with him being crap forever as there are no guarantees he will ever learn anyway.

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Offred · 06/07/2016 00:51

It seems easy to me, being aware of what you are thinking and making conscious choices about how you behave but it is not something he has learned to do and it may be something he never learns to do. He goes through life in a chaos of 'just reacting' and rarely even reflecting or if he does not being able to retain and act on his reflection.

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ravenmum · 06/07/2016 06:17

You're not responsible for him learning how to interact with others. You're not his mum.

Plus, we don't only learn from the people who are kind and understanding to us . Sometimes we get good life lessons from people being shit and thoughtless. Sometimes we are hurt by people who think they are being kind. It's not worth overthinking how you deal with this as you never really know what the outcome will be. Do what you have to do as humanely as you can, and remember that things don't always have to be someone's fault. Maybe you just don't fit together well and would each fit better with someone else.

Memoires · 06/07/2016 09:50

He let himself into your house while you were sleeping????? Shock

fattyfattytoadgirl · 06/07/2016 10:12

Grey-Rocking or Ghosting may be the best way to handle this situation.

I have a theory that you need different break-ups strategies for different guys.

It may seem cruel to Ghost one guy who would be okay with an clean break-up, but it may be just the thing for another type of guy.

SeaEagleFeather · 06/07/2016 11:03

once when I broke it off he let himself into my house while I was sleeping

Get your key back. If there's a chance he might make a copy on the quiet, change the locks.

He sounds pretty awful

  • cant cope with adult life
  • puts you down ("all my mates think you are psycho" - what really? riiiiight)
  • he sounds like he basically wants you to agree with him all the time and be there all the time for him and to be fairly unreliable himself
  • unable to cope in the adult world
  • unable to reflect and change his behaviour

this may be extrapolating too far, but it sounds from this side of the screen that in 10 years' time you'll be doing almost everything for him and being ever so careful not to upset him, while he can put you down and expects to be treated as if his feelings are precious little eggs that you might step on and crush.

As I say, I might be extrapolating too far. But he doesn't sound either solid or much fun.

Offred · 06/07/2016 11:15

He has not had my key for ages. I moved over a year ago.

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AndTheBandPlayedOn · 06/07/2016 13:25

I think SeaEagleFeather has it right. I am glad he doesn't have your key anymore.

How is dd today? Are you feeling better?

Offred · 06/07/2016 13:48

DD got washed and dressed and ready and then couldn't go.

The SW and CAMHS are not available on the phone. I am at my wits end TBH.

I have no idea what is going to happen with the CIN meeting tomorrow if she continues refusing to go (which I am sure she will and I understand why). Feels like an endless battle.

I am trapped in the house with her, hardly able to spend any time with the other DC, I'm not sleeping or eating. I have no clue about what will happen.

DD is adamant she cannot face them and refuses to talk to anyone but me about it...

I feel like I am living under a guillotine 24/7 as her meltdowns are usually violent and directed towards me, just waiting for something to trigger her...

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AndTheBandPlayedOn · 06/07/2016 14:21

That sounds so stressful for you, Offred. I don't have any experience with that so I don't have any advice, sorry. I do hope she hasn't hurt you!

I have pm you. I'll be in and out today. Swim lesson for the lo and dentist for me (repair a cracked tooth Confused ). Oh and the gym! And clean the fish tank. (Your day may be better than mine.)

Offred · 06/07/2016 14:53

Ha ha! She's actually fine. Not going to school has meant no meltdowns at all TBH it is just everyone else seeming to panic that is making me feel stressed.

We had a lovely cuddle before and she has bravely agreed to walk with me to school to pick the others up.

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SeaEagleFeather · 06/07/2016 16:50

I do hope it gets easier for your DD and for you offred.

Kleinzeit · 06/07/2016 18:46

Good news about your DD Smile

I really think most reasonable and fair minded people would agree

As for your DP, I would have a private think about the big difference between what is “logical” (which I am sure your DP is very good at from his own point of view) and what is “reasonable” - which means taking other people’s point of view into account. And which your DH seems to find impossible.

he doesn't want to not be himself with people he loves. It is true that he also argues in this way with his mum, dad and brothers too.

And it doesn’t bother him that it upsets them. Or at least not enough to try not to do it. Because this is who is he is. And then there’s all this:

Then there was a whole nit picking argument about whether I had said 'it is of primary importance' or ..

I have had rants in the past about how he feels it is more important than anything (upsetting people and them feeling bullied) that people engage with the 'proper tactics of debate'

This latest one was entirely due to his anxiety

wishing he had the necessary tact to realise that starting this kind of fight (which he seems to use as a pressure valve for his own frustration at other ppl) is just really crap ATM.

it results in detailed analysis of stats and opinion polls and why they mean his opinion is the only right one to have.

he has been at the arse end of everyone's manipulations for a number of years due to being over trusting and easily manipulated

He's a maths person and very much likes to think the world is orderly and predictable.

His seems to be 'I like you, I trust you with my life'.

he moved out of his parents' house last year

he is a little socially awkward in that he always wants to engage people in some kind of debate about something or is a little overly interested in new people, doesn't always pick up on social cues that people would like to be left alone and not engaged in conversation 24/7.

He also struggles to imagine that the way he feels about things like birthdays/Christmas/mother's day (is not interested) is not how other ppl feel

he will not understand why I have pushed him out if I do and he will ramp up efforts to convince me

He did once say recently "I think I am an excellent BF"

When I am ill or struggling or down, any time there is anything serious where it is not exactly clear what can be done to help or I might need more intensive support he is uncommunicative and avoids me.

he let himself into my house while I was sleeping because he was desperate to explain that it was a misunderstanding

You know, all these points don’t sound like ADHD, not even unmanaged ADHD. But if you’d said he had an ASC then I would not have been in the least bit surprised. (Dual diagnosis if you like) People don’t seem to associate silliness with ASCs but it can be just another broken coping strategy. And yes I do know not all people with ASCs are like your DP, your DD may be very different.

I have not said this to make you feel sorry for him, nor because I think if he has an ASC it will make it any easier for you stay with him. I have said this because it could have implications for whether most of his distressing behaviour towards you is ever likely to change. ASC or ADHD, it is very deeply ingrained in his character and it’s doesn’t look as if the positive changes you said he’s made over the last year are changes in how he relates to you. He is good in some very practical ways and good company some of the time but his self-awareness and awareness of other people'sfeelings are not likely to improve much. He is not self-managing and you can’t do it for him. And if you do decide to leave you’ll have to be careful, his boundaries are all over the place.

I don't think I could trust him with an explanation of that's the route I choose.

Probably quite right. He’s unlikely to do anything with explanations but use them as a platform from which to argue back about why you are wrong to leave him.

I feel like Cassandra

That’s what they call it. Being Cassandra’d!

offred you are a fine person and you deserve a good supportive relationship. I’m not convinced this is the one for you any more. Flowers

Kleinzeit · 06/07/2016 19:15

(Sorry - misread about your DD. I'm glad she's in a good mood right now, fingers crossed for tomorrow)

Offred · 06/07/2016 23:32

Have childcare organised for CIN meeting. She is not going to school tomorrow.

SW being very supportive, have got a list of things to go through with the school tomorrow and we'll see what happens. Fingers crossed.

I have not thought about BF today. He has forwarded emails relating to DD as he's trying influence the right people from above school for me. I have responded with information and that is all. The school's response is laughable 'we are aware of incidents outside school' blah blah... So back to claiming they see nothing. Fortunately took the SW and the EWO to the last meeting (they weren't keen) so they heard school admit problems in school then.

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Offred · 06/07/2016 23:36

He thinks he is brilliant at logic but TBH he is more often than not just over emotional and irrational.

Claiming most fair minded and reasonable people would agree that party politics should be the primary concern of politicians I think is a little unhinged. FWIW I reckon most people would rather politicians were primarily concerned with the public interest and it is only a niche group of hardened party political activists who would share his 'party over all' view in reality but is not really the point. It's my opinion about what is important to me and I'd be entitled to it even if no-one agreed!

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Offred · 06/07/2016 23:40

He is excellent at logical fallacy such as "Saying you are not in favour of military intervention implies you agree with the dictator"

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DetestableHerytike · 07/07/2016 00:03

"once when I broke it off he let himself into my house while I was sleeping because he was desperate to explain that it was a misunderstanding..."

What
The
Hell?

Whatever his views on Brexit, either 52% or 48% of the voting population disagree with him!