"I really think most reasonable and fair minded people would agree"

[Offred]

If someone said this to you when you expressed your own personal opinion and the reasoning behind it on something entirely subjective (think personal opinions on what values are important to each person), followed by 'come on, I think you must surely accept that most people share my view!'

How would you react?

He gets stuck in the work mindset? How long is his commute?

Maybe you could just remind him that he's "not at work now, dear". Or is he practising?

I had a colleague whose dp would send him upstairs or into another room for half an hour when he got home so he could remember where he was now and shrug off the politics.

You posted here for a reason OP. When his back's against the wall, he's not kind or considerate towards you. He has bullying and manipulative tendencies.

Do you like him as a person? Do you respect him? Is he good and kind and fun?

If 'yes', then crack on.

What do you want from this thread? What do you want to do?

Anyone who said the line "All my mates think you're a psycho" to me would be dumped immediately. Because I hate that type of man, and they do tend to cluster together. My ex used to use "The man on the street would agree with me" and I really wanted to tell him to just go and whinge at the man on the street then. He waltzed through life convinced he was always right. When he was regularly proved wrong it was like his brain instantly rejected all memory of it.

He trusts a million deeply untrustworthy people largely because they tell him what he wants to hear in some way, he gets repeatedly screwed over, thinks I am manipulating and controlling him when I point out the dangers then is very sorry when it turns out I was right all along and he has been massively screwed over. He has in the past consistently accused me of manipulating and controlling him largely because I tell him what I think and not necessarily what he wants to hear and then has been sorry when things play out and I was right and he sees I was trying to be supportive.

And for how long do you want to keep trying to manage this manchild? Every time something new comes up you will be the villain, until you're proven right again, which will be forgotten when the next thing comes along. It sounds like an exhausting cycle. It's far too much hard work for someone you're not even married to. If it's fun and casual, keep it casual. Let him deal with his dramas himself.

His commute is 20mins but we only see each other for dates really, do not live together or have regular times to see each other. There is no 'work mindset' for him. Politics and his party are basically just his whole life and he has no boundaries.

I do like him, very much and what suits me/what I like outweighs the bad about 90% of the time. He resists the idea of separating 'work' from 'life' and says I just don't understand how important it is (he means objectively speaking, rather than to him personally). He is right because I do not think all the things he does are important. Maybe 75% is pointless and often he misses actually important things to do it. I think he has fallen into a trap of doing everything he is asked to even if it is stupid to/not worth it because it alleviates his anxiety. I think he would be less anxious and more effective and happier if he could step back and prioritise and be a bit more discriminating.

When he got upset about being pulled all over the place working on other people's agendas at the expense of his own career I advised him to stop just agreeing to things straight away and sleep on it first which he was amenable to but hasn't been great at.

I do respect him though sometimes I feel like Cassandra watching the very predictable car crash unfolding quietly from the sidelines.

He didn't actually say that, that's just what it felt like he was saying.

And what I wanted really was some 'fair minded and reasonable' people to talk to about it really because I'm trapped in the house with anxious SEN child who ATM cannot manage anyone coming round to the house unless she is prepared for it and is barely managing to even go out to the shop.

(Which is also having a negative impact on my emotional resilience)

Hi Offred,
It might be time to move on. Or at least start casting about for additional help.

What you describe sounds scripted and predictable (regardless of the actual topic of the day). This indicates he knows what he is doing and is using you because he gets something out of this dynamic.

He has repeatedly stomped all over your opinions, and not in a respectful way. It is time to put boundaries around your opinions (and perhaps even politics as a whole), imho. You do not need this emotional circus (well, in reality-emotional abuse). He presents you with a no win situation for his sport/entertainment/ego supply/drama opportunity: the only answer is to not play. Just refuse to engage in debates with him...his behavior has created this necessity. Isn't there a general rule to not talk about Sex, Religion, or Politics?

Perhaps you and your lo could become experts on Barometric Pressure? Whenever he starts in on you, you could give your opinion on whether it is going Up or Down. (Change the subject-Barometric Pressure is always there; so is your BP-maybe that goes up or down accordingly with his debates too.)

Yes, very insightful. I am developing hypertension and having 24 hour BP monitoring as BP swings wildly with stress (120/80 to 154/108) as my dad's did prior to him developing early onset heart disease.

If you are happy 90% of the time, then you just need to find a way to handle the other 10% of the time (his argumentative tendencies). You may/may not want to break with him further down the line, but until that time comes, you just need to find a way not to get drawn into his baiting for an argument.

I am one of those responsible types who can easily get drawn into the fixer/mothering role. Knowing what I now know, I would never do that again. The time, energy, money and opportunities I've wasted making other people's dreams come true! People who didn't really care about me when the chips were down. I am not referring to reasonable support of a partner who needs help, of course. Now I am burned out. Don't let this happen to you.

If you recognise any of yourself in my description of myself, you will find it very difficult to keep things casual and detached whilst still seeing this man. It can be done though. In fact, it may be a good learning experience for you in how to do this. It sounds like you have plenty to cope with already, so you don't have time to get drawn into these discussions with your BF. Your time and energy is precious.

I'd think of some deflection phrases to use in rotation every time you see this behaviour starting up. Just cite tiredness/preoccupation with other issues as to why you cannot indulge him at the time. Eventually, hopefully, he will learn that he can flex his debating muscles elsewhere, leaving you with the good stuff you get from him.

xpost.
Well, he needs to understand that you do not like to be treated this way.
You have told him and he conveniently "forgets" (part of his issues, I get it). But wouldn't more meaningful consequences make him understand on an operational level? Stop it or we're done?

It sounds as if he treats you as if you are invisible. I got that from my Narc sister: once she had made up her mind about something, then everyone else was wrong. Which discounted everyone else, and made them invisible.

I understand that you want to continue with him and your established boundaries of not living together etc are well done. But your emotional health is still taking a hit from this guy. Maybe see a little less of him?

"Most people do/think this way" sometimes is a clue if we are talking about which side of the road to drive on. But with an attitude or opinion on subjective matters, I simply say "I am not most people". Embrace your identity-which you do and are strong...but it sounds like he does not and swings about with kissing butt to be a political hack. No wonder he is a mess.

Oh, and I truly believe that my past contributed HUGELY to the illnesses I face today. Please don't let this ruin your health!

Sorry, I forgot to add

[calming vibes to dd]
Get Well Soon!

Yeah, poor DD. She is having such an unbelievably rough time of it ATM. Completely understand why she doesn't want to go back to school (they are dicks) but unfortunately unless they acknowledge she needs to be assessed for SEN we are doing home schooling next year as LA will not support applying for special/named school as no SEN... Endless roundabout. Primary school think she might need specialist high school but won't even assess her for SEN as 'she is not failing academically. SW has called child in need meeting for Thursday (helpful) to look at what support everyone will plan for her while we wait for (likely) ASD diagnosis but I am absolutely appoplectic with school who finally admitted she has social communication problems and emotional wellbeing problems which they have been keeping to themselves, trying to manage on the sly whilst denying to me there was any issue when I have been up and down the school for years saying I felt there were issues.

It is entirely rational therefore for her to not trust them and not want to go back, just problematic in terms of getting her actual support (and an education).

And yes I recognise it and yes though I have put physical boundaries unfortunately have not always had emotional/financial boundaries and he has had A LOT of money off me in the past with crap like 'I will definitely pay you back' 'oh do I owe you money? Well I don't have it this month unfortunately' he has literally had about £5000 on various things in the last 3 years:

Much of it has been him saying 'shall we go out for dinner' him ordering three courses and sides and then saying 'oh I am financially embarrassed sorry'

Him paying for the holiday for me and the kids therefore was a big deal. Was after I sat down and went through with him exactly how much money he has had off me and he was very upset.

He's such a child when he moved out of his parents' house last year he thought rent included utilities and council tax and was then very surprised that it didn't. Also had no clue what a card meter was/how it worked.

But I feel he just needs to learn these things. Part of being an adult.

Depends what it was. There are great number of topics where the majority of sane and reasonable people would have similar view.
For example if you were arguing that Hitler and Pol Pot were perfectly nice guys who really just needed more hugs, then he'd be ok to say that most reasonable and fair minded people would be on the opposing side of that argument.

And it doesn't need to be that extreme.

So very focused on the negative today really.

I have very much benefitted from his silliness and flying by the seat of his pants attitude too. I have a tendency towards being uptight and anxious and planning everything to within an inch of it's life.

He came with me to support me when I did a presentation at a national conference a few weeks ago and really helped me feel ok about not having even written it until a couple of days before.

Sat with me the night before my law finals and calmed me down/made me laugh/entertained and distracted me.

His crap things are also good for me and I don't think he tries to do the crap things, he's just not very grown up and lacks the ability to think things through. He is often surprised that there are consequences to things that I think are really bloody obvious like breaking the 50 limit on a motorway with roadworks while passing through a speedcheck area may result in a speeding fine!

His mantra of 'it'll be fine and if it's not fine it'll still be fine' is the single most important thing I think anyone has ever taught me!

But things are not always fine, are they? Plan B can work out wonders, and Plan C too but that kind of isn't what you are saying is it? It is a different circumstance to throw everything up in the air and then have an operational policy to "like" how everything lands. Flexibility is good, but this sounds like a rule of flexibility driven by ignorance/naivety, very Pollyanna. (I am not expressing this idea very well... )

With you there to bail him out, of course he can be a financial nit wit. The "oops I forgot my wallet" would wear thin very quickly for me. Is he banking on your good manners to not ask for proof for payment before entering the restaurant? (and isn't that what credit cards are for?)

This is kind of a tough one. On one hand he is giving you the support that you want-the right kind and at the right time. But you are paying for it aren't you? Literally, by subsidizing him in the moment.

Well done on getting the payback holiday!

No, I used to say that to him actually - 'you are able to say that because you don't actually have any responsibilities'. I think it's a crap mantra for him but it's helped me a lot with my obsessive, ruminating, anxious, wanting-to-be-in-control personality. I take it more as a reminder to think 'what's the worst that could happen if you haven't finished this assignment two weeks before it is due' where before I would have felt really so stressed and anxious if it wasn't done by that time that it would interfere with my ability to complete it at all.

It has helped me relax my 'rules' in a way that is beneficial to me. Mainly because my 'rules' were pretty unreasonable and pointless.

Would not have been able to do the presentation without the mantra I think. Because it wasn't great but it was fine and it only needed to be fine and not great (actually didn't need to do it at all) and I would have been crippled before with the perfect or a failure anxiety thought pattern.