"I really think most reasonable and fair minded people would agree"

[Offred]

If someone said this to you when you expressed your own personal opinion and the reasoning behind it on something entirely subjective (think personal opinions on what values are important to each person), followed by 'come on, I think you must surely accept that most people share my view!'

How would you react?

You are wasting time on these 'discussions', which are almost certainly only happening because he wants his ego stroked. I have only ever heard nonsense like that spouted by people who think they are far more clever than they are.

Has he been bf for long? I'm sure you can do much better.

A couple of years but at arms length because of this kind of behaviour really.

Offred, I've just nc, but I've been here years. I have read many of your posts. You are an intelligent, funny, interesting person with a lot going for you, and I do truly think that you should have a bf who appreciates you and encourages the best in you, not one who thinks winning an argument makes him the Big Man.

Hi Offred, I've been here yonks as well. This sounds very tedious and annoying.

Thanks! Eesh yes I'm tired and run down. Have a horrid cold too.

It's old ground; circular arguments about virtually nothing where he asks my opinion, doesn't listen to what I think because he has already decided what I think before he asked or he misinterprets what I have said and goes on about 'but that implies' the thing I have decided your opinion will be, then he says something I find actively insulting/demeaning and then he gets angry if I do something to shut down the argument because he says I am childishly 'having the last word'. Then there is silence while he seethes and then he shouts at me I am childish and embarrassing him, I say the discussion was upsetting me, I shut it down because it felt as though he was enjoying upsetting me and he says that is crap, I am over sensitive and I don't have an adequate counter argument or don't want to accept he is right....

It so wearing.

Usually I am able to catch it and not engage or just shrug it off. At the moment not so much really.

And you are with him because....?????

Don't 'settle'
It's not working for you so get out.

because he has been genuinely loving and supportive on a number of occasions.

He is just highly impulsive and often unreliable (ADHD) and he is quite literally my only support ATM with dickhead family who 'don't believe in ASD' and are 'just offering opinions they are entitled to' are trying to interfere, dickhead school who claim social communication issues, mental health issues and not achieving true potential does not meet the criteria for SEN assessment and social workers, CAMHS, paeds who are all panicking at me about safeguarding and abusive xh...

So he effectively called you a psycho? And wonders why you might be upset with that? And then to top it all tries to manipulate you into thinking he's the poor victimised one?

What do they call that...?

Projection. Who's supposed to be the psycho again?

Yes, he does know he has these issues when he is calm. He has been 'booking a doctors appointment' for about 6 months. Anything like this takes forever with him. He has been wearing my old glasses for 2 years because he is 'booking an opticians appointment'.

Wow, you are having a shit time and I don't know what to say to that.
It must be tough.
And if he is really supporting you through all of this then that is great.
Problem is, you can't seem to just shut the conversations down as he gets upset.
You can't give your opinion as he gets upset.
You can't get upset because he gets upset.
It seems you have another child on your hands to me.

He sounds like a tedious bully.

My ex used to do the same thing - draw false inferences from things I'd said and then back me into a semantic cul-de-sac where he'd spend far too long splitting hairs just to 'win' the argument that I didn't even want to have in the first place.

So boring and exhausting.

Him being kind and supportive doesn't cancel out the fact that he sets you up for these interactions - he invites your opinion, dismisses it, then makes it all about him by getting upset.

He might be supportive in some ways but in others he sounds like (sorry) a total fucking nightmare. I've seen this type of stuff at close quarters and it absolutely drains you and if it goes on long enough, it leaves you questioning yourself and doubting your own opinions/not expressing them because of the inevitable reaction.

Not good for your head.

Yes a shit time and yes he is a bit like a child and it takes him ages to do anything about it because I refuse to act like his mother and sort it out for him.

He was brilliant recently and has gone back to being shit and unreliable this week. No understanding that asking if his friend could come round and then cancelling at 12 on the day would a. Put me out and b. Upset me due to me having had no adult contact and SEN child refusing (too anxious for genuine reasons) school and being too mentally unwell to leave the house, me having the cold from hell and laryngitis.

He booked a weekend away for us all in a caravan park last weekend, really helped with the children, borrowed my mum's 7 seater despite my parents being unreasonable lunatics and dealt with all the kids including stressy meltdown SEN child really well, gave me a lie in, made me cooked breakfast in bed while dealing with all of them.

He can be excellent and wants to be consistent just not managing and needs to see the doctor

Hang on, back up a bit, he cries because he has upset you, and you're the one who is over sensitive and emotional? So you have to comfort him because he's upset. If he doesn't like upsetting you how about he apologises for doing so? Or, you know, tries not to upset you in the first place?

I guess he thinks his upset is a rational response to the situation and yours is a manipulative overreaction. I would suggest it's the opposite.

And yes it used to really badly affect me because I struggled to understand how or why he did this if it was not me. This was before I knew about the ADHD.

I do now believe it is him, the whole cycle feels utterly ridiculous and is completely predictable no matter what trivial issue we are discussing.

Is there a pattern here? He's amazing for a short period, then turns into a twat?

Have you considered the possibility that he's punishing you for not being grateful enough during the times he makes an effort (i.e.: acts like a normal, supportive partner.)

That is exactly what he says he thinks when he is angry.

I have had rants in the past about how he feels it is more important than anything (upsetting people and them feeling bullied) that people engage with the 'proper tactics of debate' (his sneering and insulting behaviour) and if they are upset by it they are weaklings.

I have considered that yes. He does punish me sometimes, usually when he is in this mood. The nice things he does are not related IMO to the punishments. The punishments happen when I am upset with him over something and are IMO designed to protect his ego. He has got better over time and is not so threatened by me being upset. Mostly now he is able to accept I am upset and why and apologise. The last remaining area of his punishment is when he provokes this type of discussion (usually because he is anxious about his work - works in politics) and if I don't agree he gets all out of proportion and me being upset makes him angry because at the time he feels he is completely reasonable (is highly invested in being right) and I am manipulating him and am not actually upset.

I have asked him why he doesn't behave like this with strangers because it feels as though he treats them with more respect in a discussion and he says he thinks manners are important, that it is pseudo-respect and that he doesn't want to not be himself with people he loves. It is true that he also argues in this way with his mum, dad and brothers too.

One of his brothers gets upset in a similar way to how I do. His mum and dad just accept it as part of him and his other brother is invulnerable due to being about 100 times worse than him for it.

he feels it is more important than anything that people engage with the 'proper tactics of debate' and if they are upset by it they are weaklings.

This makes him sound like a proper twat.

He isn't the arbiter of the 'proper tactics of debate'. That's just his opinion and, IMO, he's wrong.

Why do you give so much weight to it?

This latest one was entirely due to his anxiety over brexit and the effect on his political party.

I agree. It is more standard ego defence - 'people must agree with me'.

I don't agree with him or give it weight, I feel rolly eyed about how he is 'doing that thing again where he imagines he rules the world and everyone in it because he is insecure'.

I guess I'm just feeling pretty vulnerable right now and being subjected to it right now has had more of an upsetting effect.

Plenty of people are anxious about Brexit. Doesn't make them behave like bullies.

He honestly comes across in your posts as someone who thinks he's more intelligent than he actually is.

I think 'most reasonable and fair minded people would agree' that bullying someone until they say that you are right is not a productive way to discuss anything. That once you bully someone they become afraid or dismissive and either don't bother to think about your reasoning/point or just associate your view with bullies and are put off.