Expecting first child.... I already see the problems with the inlaws starting. cultural differences, maybe also because of social issues or something else. How do you deal with it? Especially MIL??

[1horatio]

So, we're expexting :) OH is awesome. MIL is being difficult...
OH and I have many different opinions (from violence, the army, children and knives, open fires, fishing, shooting, the law [make sure it's worth it if you break it, know how to skirt it vs just follow the law]).
But OH and I talk, compromise and appreciate we're having different cultural backgrounds (OH is English, I'm not. But seeing as I'm also from Europe one might think there would be less differences. We actually enjoy these differences. Especially OH thinks they're incredibly interesting and has many fancy terms... ).

Anyhow, for example: OH's sister's DC is being bullied. Also somewhat phisically. My response: 'Hit then where it hurts'. SIL sat next to us and listened (I proceeded to explain /show a bit how to hit back). MIL comes: 'That's not how we deal with things like this. Go to a teacher.' I say that the teachers know and that it hasn't gotten better. MIL gives me nasty looks and say DC is better than that....

Said child isn't allowed around sharp knives. Ok, I'm not their parent I'd never interfere.
But I got my first dagger with around... 8? and had pocketknives before I went to school. My little brothers had their first daggers when they were much younger. We were taught how to handle them and hardly ever cut us and never somebody else. MIL would be apoplectic if she just heard about it.
Target shooting with a bow is also a perfectly normal activity in my family. Riding isn't seen as "so dangerous" either.... (guns are obviously not for children).
We've always known that meat comes from animals when we were little. Also because sometimes we were the one that killed the animal we were eating. My inlaws thought it was terribly morbid I accidentally called the beef we were eating a cow....

How do you guys deal with this? Does anybody else have similar experiences? Now that we're expecting LO MIL is trying to influence so much. She wants me to stop doing a sport I love after the birth, makes comments like:"one should never let a child do...." and glances at me meaningfully....

Plus MIL is soo concerned with appearance. Some names are 'bad', screaming children are a disgrace but dummies are ok (I'm of the opposite opinion) and she always gives me this stare. Or says: "we don't like this, do we, 1horatio?" whereas I'm just thinking: "we?!"

I honestly never had an argument with MIL. And until last week I was convincing myself she likes me. But there's just a general amount of disrespect from her and snide remarks.

As I said, MIL knows nothibg about knives. But... She's already know really judgemental/involved etc. And it's stressful to me and incrdibly annoying. It's like, once you see something you can't unsee it? That's how I feel about MIL's behaviour.

I've just realised that I was very unclear. The issue is that MIL is being really rude and disrespectful, imo. Something I've unfortunately just shut out until last weekend. She already seems to be of the opinion that something with me is wrong (don't portray the image she wants for family? Because of the neighbours etc). And she doesn't even know anything about my stance on knives or dummies.
And I don't know how to deal with it. And I fear that trying to have some parts of Swiss culture in the LO's upbringing will just not be acceptable to her.

But it's not her child so her opinion doesn't really amount to anything. You don't have to ask her permission. You just do your thing. Sometimes with nodding and smi,king, sometimes with gritted teeth, but what she says doesn't necessarily go.

what kind of thing is she saying horatio?
It will be difficult with the culture clash, but she doesn't live with you does she?
I had a friend from Switzerland who used to give her children suppositories....I thought that was WEIRD - she thought I was WEIRD for thinking that.....

Teaching your children how to use a knife for outdoorsy type activities or cooking supervised wouldn't warrant SS involvment. Montessori and forest schools are popular for teaching kids how to use real tools.

It really is the carrying/unsupervised access that is a problem.

OP, the cultural differences will always be there. What you'll find is that your child will adapt to each culture exposed to.
My DD was born in Britain, has a british father. I'm from the continent.
Specifically about knives, yes, we gave our DD her dad's old pocket knife and encouraged her to chop and carve to her heart content. Not a problem as long it didn't involve furniture, other people etc. We taught her to be responsible, had to ask permission etc. But perfectly normal, of course she can handle a knife, why wouldn't she?

Like you, the playground rules stated you punch back if you were in physical danger, no way any of us would go to the teacher. so I know what you mean.

In my case, MIL and STBXH acted like they are the superior civilised race and I was nothing but a backward peasant. The 'ideas' I had! 'This is not how we do it in THIS country' was something I heard frequently.

Anyway, cut a long story short, I'm the mother and I did what I thought best for my child. It raised eyebrows, course it did. But I also spend a lot of time abroad with DD. So she knows that what I am teaching her is perfectly normal in other countries. Children adapt. So she'll get on her bike and go on a 4 hours adventure in Holland with the kids, she knows strangers offering her food/sweets is normal in rural Italy and she'd never ever look at other peoples' way of life, customs and food with anything but curiosity and openess.
When she's in Britain, she's not asking to go on an adventure on her bike. We go together.

Passive agressiveness is something you need to perfect, OP. Don't openly confront, but dig your heels in with MIL. And speak to your child in your own language. Saves a lot of grief :)

Is it just me who has never required a pocket knife to eat a piece of fruit??

You say your mil is rude and should understand/accept your culture. Well shouldnt you do the same?

As pp have pointed out there are some things you just dont do in this country. Whether you do them in yours is irrelevent. You live in the uk and it is respectful to follow the culture of the country you live in.
I have lived in 2 europeon countries and i respected their culture/way of life even though sometimes i had face. When in Rome and all that.

How you raise your child is up to you the parents but dont expect everyone to agree with you or not voice their opinions. It doesnt make them rude.

Children carrying knives. No.
Encouraging children to fight violence with violence. No.
Screaming babies in public places. MN says no but it is impossible to toe that line
Taking your own food to weddings. No
Refusing meals cooked by family members. No its rude but i do understand your need to due to your sport. I hate pasta. I cannot stand the texture but 2 weeks in Italy staying with bf family i ate every pasta dish put in front of me. They were kind enough to cook for me, food is a big part of their culture and it would have been rude to refuse. I put myself out because it wasnt going to kill me.

Is your mil actually rude or are you just unwilling to accept things are done differently in this country? Tbh you sound like the rude one but i am sure you will disagree with me

I wonder whether there's a bit of gender reversal going on here. If people assumed you were female, you would be told very swiftly that you don't have a MIL problem, you have a DP problem. Haven't spotted that yet. But I still think it's valid.

You say your OH values your cultural differences, so you need to work out together what you're going to take from each of your cultures and how you plan to raise your child. Your OH then needs to hold the line with MIL - making it clear that your child will have dual heritage and that you want to value the good in each. And yes that means compromise both ways. You sound like you're planning to take her on yourself - IMO you need to be a team, otherwise it just gets harder.

I now live in Italy and our cultural differences are normally around what temperature is hot/cold and how children should be dressed, plus the connection between that and illness. I have learned to more or less toe the country line until it is boiling hot and I just think, fuck it, they can go without a vest and socks today
Lots of other things come up: weaning, old wives tales (are just different), attitude to bedtimes, belief in alternative medicine, etc. Used to be just MIL but now also other playground mums etc.

If other people can't see it and it is in the comfort of our home, I tend to do it my way. If it is something others regularly witness, like the knives would be, I'd change my public behaviour. If you are seen to constantly go against the culture, you start to seem very disdainful. Save it for the big stuff and no more.

And I agree it can be a great excuse to be 'whacky' sometimes if you are from another country. Actually heard an old lady say "she uses that funny sling thing because she's English, they must all do that"

OP I think that you have to let all this dagger this go.
I am not British. I have lived in places where I carried a machete on my belt every day to make way through the jungle and protect myself. I have lived without water and electricity and had to learn how to cope.
I was shooting when I was 7.

I live here now.

I dont carry my pocket knife any more and I work with children and definitely not advise to hit back.

Point is that there are certain things you can and cant do. I think ok to let your kids use certain tools. I was sawing wood and making proper models when I was very young and I want my kids to learn to handle tools properly.
But the dagger. Is that really a crucial point for the development of your child?

About the law well I have no comment there

I meant "all this dagger thing go"

Youd exclude children for owning a knive or for taking it to school? Are private schools more lenient?

I live in London where there are what seem to be weekly fatal stabbings - a lot of them involving teenagers and young people. The 18 year old who used to live next door to us was chased and stabbed in his thigh and bled to death.

I know that the types of knives you are talking about OP are not the same (obviously the pocket knives are not the same - what is the other type you are alluding to little children knowing how to handle?), but given our knife crime statistics and the fact that I have told my teenagers that if anybody threatens them for their phone they are to hand it straight over in order to avoid possibly being stabbed, I find all this talk of knives a bit upsetting. I don't know where gang members in London are getting their knives from but I think the problem has to be tackled at source - why is it so easy to get hold of them?

www.theguardian.com/uk/knifecrime

I am British and was brought up here... and had my first rifle at 5! I had an extremely macho (British) father with no sons and I was the oldest daughter so as soon as I could walk I was taught to use a knife, shoot, drive (yes drive!), ride horses, fight, handle lots of animals like snakes etc. some rather dangerous actually....

This sounds crazy when I write it down... and in some ways it was but I did have a great childhood in many ways. I also have great spatial awareness and am very dextrous which I put down squarely to the driving etc./ use of knives while so young.

However, although I teach some of these things to my children (my son has used a rifle at 5 under very close supervision which was really was all about responsibility and gun safety) they will not be carrying knives (even if they are taught to use them) and they are definitely not taught to meet violence with violence but to find a responsible adult and to be verbally assertive.

Above all else though I think it depends on the reasons the adult has for doing these things with a child. For my father, it was a narcissistic drive which I don't think is healthy.

You need to meet your child and see what they need, not what you or your MIL think is right. Why would you want to teach your child to fight a bully if in this country that could result in a school exclusion?

At the other end of the scale, you may hate the idea of dummies (as I did) but then have a child with painful reflux and quickly realise that dummies are a godsend and actually help with the discomfort.

I have a feeling that your MIL is anxious and that you have very, very fixed ideas about how things should and will be....

"We" might not do it that way but I will do as I see fit with my child.

Teach your child how to use a knife in the privacy of your home. As a Brit in Europe I had to adjust to children playing with knives and tools and it genuinely frightened me. Do you know who cut themselves? Me. Because I hadn't learned how to use an axe for chopping wood because I had never been allowed.

And actually I think you're right about responding to continued bullying with violence and there is thread after thread after thread on MN of people saying the same.

Having 2 cultures is wonderful as you get to pick the best of both. But you really need to pick your battles. And you need to have DH on side. And he needs to fight your corner.

knew how to assemble my stepbrother's ak before I was 18.

Why did he have an ak - genuine question?
Was it loaded while you handled it?

It is sounding like a very outdoorsy, active culture which is lovely and which you can also have in the UK depending on where you live, but why the need for all the weaponry?

Completely irrelevant to the thread, but I like you op; you sound good-humoured and fun

Having said that, you probably do need to find some cheery 'Oh, I'm sure we'll be fine! ' responses for your MIL. Learn to let it wash over you as you'll implode/explode otherwise! It sounds like she is a bit image conscious on some things, yes, but her knife concerns are very British and they are fairly ingrained so I wouldn't bother fighting those. Follow the UK line overtly and add in your own traditions where they fit would be my advice. And DEFINITELY speak your own language to DC from birth, what a good idea

crossroads I think the OP means axe (I hope!) not AK as in AK47 (but I nay be wrong!)

I live in France, op, and have lots of friends who are married into French families. For them, they are treated as the 'backwards peasants' ! Breastfeeding for more than a couple of weeks - horror! Eating dinner at 6pm - outrageous! letting children make a mess and get muddy - shock! The cultural differences are always going to be there. You need to learn to shrug your shoulders, and say 'for me, it's normal' without feeling the need to convince your MIL that she is wrong and you are right. At the same time, choose your battles. I personally, living in France, tend to bring my children up Brit-style but aim to fit in with local social norms when we do anything with locals - at weddings and other events, or at school events. I believe it teaches my children to respect the host culture.

Your upbringing sounds not too far from a rural upbringing in the UK. ;-) I grew up on a farm, and learned most of those skills.

No daggers? As I said MIL knows nothing about that. Not carrying around pocketknives? Also fine. I'm used to just biting into fruit now, instead of making slices. That's minor.

So, this week my MIL and I went shopping (trying to do something that's not Sunday lunch). She constantly criticised my appearance (apparently black trousers and green tops are... Not appropriate??).
Whenever I said something she disagreed loudly or... Tittered (?).
When we met somebody she or I know she always interrupted me, dug her fingers into my arm or just laughed over me. It ultimately was an exercice in being quiet and smiling a lot...

She was surprised when I offhandedly (stupid me!) mentioned that I've never watched a Disney princess movie (there's a movie section in the store). She continued to ask and I said we had the original grimm brother fairytales. She told me "well, in england we don't do this to our children".

We walked past a florist and she said: "oh, I just wish you had something like this at your wedding!" and stares. What she's getting at? We're already married.
And she asked super invasive questions. Like, she suddendly asked about my ex. Yes my ex is a lovely woman. But... What does it matter to MIL? I've never cheated on anybody (which she apparently doesn't believe, from her stare). And she made jokes about circumcision.(I'm sorry, but what the actual fuck??!)

Oh, and she told me that I really needed to go to the hairdresser. I like my hair. My hair is good the way it is. And I never go to the hairdresser.

So... Until this week I've never really had 1:1 time with my MIL. This was my OH's idea so there'd be less family Sunday lunches.

And after that she and her husband had supper at our house. And she just continued this way...

Interesting thread.

One thing I would point out OP, the word "dagger" in the UK has, I would say, only weapon connotations. Most common use is probably in video games. I've never heard anyone inc my outdoors / farm raised type friends use the word "dagger" in the same way that they would "pocketknife" or "Swiss Army knife". If you want to persuade someone that it's a good implement for a child to learn to use then I would use a different term!

X-post. I agree that there are wider MIL issues, didn't mean to sound like I was discounting all that. I saw your recent thread about the wedding food too but didn't feel like I had anything to say that hadn't already been said.

My friends son was bullied, school did nothing. He flipped one day and punched the bully. Just one punch. He got suspended. My friend was furious but your MIL has a point.

Oh, and my ex isnt even in England.

And after dinner she told me I did the dishes the wrong way. Complained about our chairs (so what if it's the chairs from my Italian grandmas family home?).
The books/magazines in the loo are apparently the wrong ones (???).
Up to last weekend I never realised how annoying I happen to find MIL. These things are annoying, right? Or...?

And I believe that while certain knives are legal to carry (depends on size and folding, so a Swiss army knife is legal) in most schools it would be instant expulsion/suspension. A kid was stabbed to death at a school near me a couple of years ago by another kid with a small pocket knife.