Can't cope - had final child arrangements court hearing and can't cope with judgement. Pls help

[Hopeless100]

I have looked at mum's net before but never posted. Today however I need your help. Sorry if it long and rambling- I'm in a jumble and feel very depressed.

My soon to be ex husband and I have had trouble in our marriage over the last 2 years and in Dec I moved out of the family home. Long story short - he hasn't worked for 16 yrs, claimed he was house husband but isn't! We have 2 kids - 6 yr old and soon to be 1 yr old. He wasn't a househusband - tried lots of business ventures but didn't succeed. I was bread winner, kept house together and social secretary. Did everything for kids and am currently still on mat leave. I couldn't cope with that life anymore I wanted change and he wanted a divorce.

It got bitter and acrimonious and very nasty. I have a stable job, got a house with enough rooms for kids and am a good bet. He is unemployed, now lives in a 2 bed mortgage free house that his sister has bought him.

He took me to court over the kids and is also taking m le to court over finances. As far as the kids are concerned he wants an equal split - so one week him and then one week me. I basically said no. Based on petals advice I was told when I move out I should give him access every Thursday and every other weekend. I did this - the advice was in reality that's 4 out f 14, you will end up with 5 or 6 on the basis - there is no way a judge will agree to 7 out of 14.

He just did in court. The split is Monday and Tuesday with me, weds and Thursday with him and then alternate weekends staring from Friday.

I can't cope with the judgement. That means from weds morning handover I won't see my kids until Monday every other week. I just can't do it. I can't breathe. How am I so uniportant to their lives? I will be missng out on cuddles, what happened at school, homework- oh god so much stuff. Perhaps it wld be better if I weren't here at all. Apparently there is no appeal or reason to appeal. So my children now are tennis balls being batted between us. Suitcase children with no fixed abode. My son has no room of his own when he is at his dad's and I have a huge mortgage on a house that will be empty. What was the point. Where did I go wrong? How did I lose my kids? Any advice on how to deal with this is greatly appreciated. I can't think straight. thanks for reading.

He hasn't bought anything for the kids since they were born- no toys no clothing. Everything is hand me down stuff from his over bearing sister. Days out and holidays are all organised by her. I just can't cope. Any advice really welcome.

I must say I don't think I'd like this 50/50 arrangement as it seems very unsettling for children to spend half a week with one parent and half with the other. It's all very well to say it works for some people but I think one parent should be the main carer for such young children. So can you appeal the decision at all. And I agree to concentrate on what is the best for the children not for you because that will be a better argument.

I'm sorry it's gone this way OP but I think you have to make it work as well as you can for your DC. Well done on framing it positively for them.
I just think there's too much conflict when parents separate and wish our system wasn't set up in such an adversarial way. 50/50 care could work out even though it's a shock for you ATM. Hopefully he will step up to his responsibilities, perhaps with support from his side of the family, or maybe even renegotiate with you in the future?
Don't make it worse than it has to be x
You can do this

Sorry crosspost. Didn't mean you personally iminshock.

XH and I were in a similar situation to yours, although to be fair he was more hands-on in the parenting department (still me holding it all together though! And not even very well at the time, my MH not being at its best under the circumstances). I allowed our sols to negotiate a 50-50 split knowing that if it had gone to court there was a chance I'd have got less. Indeed when we first moved apart DC did spend more time with his dad as I was working full time with a longish commute, so he spent all of his dad's weeks with him and afternoons of my weeks with him as well . However, after a year or so of this it became apparent that XH really wasn't coping with the single parent thing, and the school (with social services' support) leaned on him to let DC live with me. XH moved into a small cheap place, takes DC out a couple of times a week, buys occasional clothes and treats and provides fairly substantial pocket money, whilst I do the roof over the head and routine stuff. It works. But sometimes you have to give in at the start and see where it goes. Fingers crossed for you.

I must say I don't think I'd like this 50/50 arrangement as it seems very unsettling for children to spend half a week with one parent and half with the other. It's all very well to say it works for some people but I think one parent should be the main carer for such young children. So can you appeal the decision at all. And I agree to concentrate on what is the best for the children not for you because that will be a better argument.

In that case dad should have the DC full time as he was the SAHP so was their primary carer.

I do wonder where people get the idea of younger children needing a more stable home or only being settled in 1 home.
Babies especially have very basic needs: warmth, comfort, food and the attention of a loving familiar adult. They adapt very well to different surroundings as long as those basic needs are met. As the child grows the 2 homes set up is normal as that's all they remember. I think older children have a harder time adjusting as they remember the before set up.

I wouldn't fight the 50-50 unless you have real welfare concerns. The stress it will cause you and your children will have a much more negative impact on them then shared residency.

you will be okay, I promise.

I agree with fuckincuntbuggerinarse. I do read some posts as though they are in judgement. Yes, in an ideal world we would all have what we wanted - but in reality, what the children want is probably for mum and dad not to separate. We as the adults make that decision to go separate ways so why should the children have to adhere to one parents need more than the other.

50/50 ensures that the children get all experiences of life with each parent. Why would anyone want to take that away from them?

This is the reality of divorce I think these days. Things are much more equal in terms of time with each parent.

As more women take on the role of breadwinner, this will happen more often. But as you can see, lots of people do this and it is working for them. I think you are in shock as its not what you expected. But think of it this way, if you had been the sahm, and him working, and you had a rent free house to live in I can imagine you expecting almost full custody, as what happened in the past. So in some ways you have got a fairer split than you otherwise might have had.

Could you push your work more to those days when you don't have them? Thus leaving more time at home when you do?

Viviennemary I do think that when people don't have experience of this their doom mongering is unhelpful

OP, I'm sorry about the shock and of course 50/50 will never be what you want.

But I'm another one with actual experience chipping in to say that it works.

I'm more 60/40 with my daughter - she was 4.5, now 7.5.
Although very recently there have been 50/50 periods because her father's girlfriend moved in with her child and so that's triggered more "family time" requests. Obviously I don't like that! But my daughter does and that's what matters.

My daughter flits between houses and if you ask her where she lives, she gives two addresses. She doesn't perceive herself as being batted around (trust me, she'd say!) she just has two homes.

Most importantly, she has two parents who are fully involved in her daily life. That's what makes her feel stable and loved, not bricks and mortar.

It is not going to hurt less right now, I'm not denying your pain. Some days it still hits me that my daughter should be with me. But I have to tell you that she is a very happy child.

I have exactly the same arrangements with my ex wife. It's hard, but it's not impossible. I still resent stuff that I miss, birthdays, alternate Christmases etc but it does give me time to do the stuff I want to do. Think of it another way, he wants to be involved, he will be missing them when you have them.

If you can keep it reasonably amicable then you can drop in and see them occasionally, you'll need to, forgotten homework, football boots and musical instruments mean that you'll see more of them than you think.

Chin up.

Of course 50/50 sounds fair deVelvet, but I do wonder if it's so often in the child's best interests? I just would think that being in one place for the school week would be more settled for them and maybe alternate weekends? I don't know how common that sort of arrangement is either? I guess if things can be kept amicable during a split then such an arrangement can be agreed between you, possibly with mediation if needed? Not easy to split amicably though I do realise that.

It's okay to have a private mourn at the loss of time with your children. But after a bit of time, this won't seem like such a horrible tragedy. There's a lot to be said for a break from your children to help you appreciate them more.

The arrangement I previously had with dd was about 70% of her time with her dad and 30% with me. She was 2 when it started. A few years down the line, we had to revisit the arrangement as there were concerns about how he treated her, and now she has no overnights with him. It was the right thing to do, but for a while I found that I intensely missed the old arrangement. There had been some bleak moments when I missed dd, but it was great to have that bit of freedom.

He'll either step up to the mark, and the children will gain, or he'll fall down, and there will be an opportunity to revisit the arrangement. But don't try to do so now merely on principle - you'll be a in a far stronger position to challenge it if you give it a fair try and there is evidence it didn't work.

Juggling, maybe I am over-simplifying because in our lives it really is that simple

We take the dc to school one week, collect them, feed them, homework, bath and bed - we have school uniforms, shoes, coats, bags here - along with proper bedrooms, toys, books, xboxes etc etc - we also take them to all extra curricular activities and pay for them too

The next week Ex does the exact same.

Also means that on the weekends we can break from the norm and do fun things.

Put it this way, if your dc were used to the school week and all it entailed with one parent then went to other on the weekend for days out and fun time. Which parent do you think they would enjoy spending more time with? That's why they need to experience all aspects of life with each parent. When they look back in years to come they will be able to say that both parents were there for everything and provided for them.

I say it like that because my dd sees her dad only on the weekend and she seems to prefer him to me....she is only 5 so I can understand the enthusiasm for fun-time as opposed to my strict routine of dinner homework bath bed

Hopeless100. My heart goes out to you. Were it me I would feel just the same. You are in a situation where you are grieving to an extent. Your children are very young, and I would also not be able to bear the thought of being apart from my children at that age, and in those circumstances. I think other posters have been unfair. From what you say, your ex has not been a responsible father, has not shown the commitment to them that any responsible parent would want to see before handing over their child to anyone for the day, let alone half the week. And one child not even 1 yet! The court must have been convinced that your husband had had more care of them than has been the case, but I am surprised at the arrangements given the age of your youngest. I don't know if you have consulted with another solicitor over an appeal, you would need to use one with childcare expertise, ie member of childcare panel. Otherwise I would imagine it's a case of seeing how it goes and applying to vary the order if it all goes wrong. I have only skimmed all the posts, but if the arrangements do not start until September, what is meant to happen until then?

If he is as hopeless as you say, then the chances are, he will get fed up with having them half the week. 2 young children are hard work for one person, let alone a lazy one. One thing I would advise (having worked for gov dept representing children in court proceedings many years ago). Be the reasonable parent at all times. Swallow your anger. Never attempt to persuade your child against their father. Never bad mouth him to them. Never attempt to block his contact. If you end up back in court this will really count. If there are problems, diarise them so you have an accurate account. More importantly, your children will be happier if they have a good relationship with their father, if the changeovers go smoothly. Never, at this age, ask your children to make a choice. I once saw a 5 year old who had developed a form of petit mal epilepsy because of the bitterness between her parents, and the constant appeal 'you don't really want to go to your mother/father, do you?'. Her elder sister had told each that she wanted to live with the other, because she desperately wanted to please both.
Honestly, I have seen so many disinterested fathers fail to keep up with far less onerous contact and residence arrangements. Unless a solicitor advises that you can do anything at this stage, the best thing you can do now is to figure out how you can make this as good as possible for your children. That calls for incredible strength.

I'm so sorry you've had this shock op . I think as you were advised the outcome would be different, there's an element of shock and surprise that you'll be coming to terms with first.

I have an (unofficial) sort of 50:50 with my XH as in they stay at his two nights a week (picks them up after tea avid drops them back off before breakfast) and EOW. However, I do absolutely everything else for them and he cancels quite a lot. In the beginning I found it hard not to be with them as before the split I did 99% of the childcare and XH had never been hands on while we were together. Whilst he's got better, he's still not great to be honest but I have accepted that the DC need time with their DF. In my situation, the inequality in how much we each do for the DC is what rankles. It feels to me that he gets the good bits of parenting whilst I get the shit work and it would feel fairer if he at least had to do some school runs etc.

You've got to keep in mind that you don't know yet how things will pan out. When we first split, I was adamant I didn't want another relationship for at least 5 years but ended up meeting a wonderful man a year after I left XH and we have so much fun together. I gave up my late teens and the entirety of my 20s to my XH who was abusive and made me miserable. I'm now properly living my life and it's wonderful. Whilst I still miss my DC if I let myself think about it, I know they're being taken care of when they're with their dad and I get to enjoy my life. It's the best of both worlds. My DC were my entire life before but now I think I have a better balance. Even when I was single, I threw myself into new things and spending time with friends - it's really been good for me and in turn the DC who get a less stressed mum into the bargain.

You will get there op. It might all feel like sacrifice on your part right now but before long you will come to appreciate the opportunity to have some time for yourself to do the things you want to do. Just keep yourself busy when the time comes.

OP don't feel like you've lost your DC because you haven't!

Your ex sounds like a complete and utter cock lodger,now he could change and start being good with the DC and he could get a job,which is all positives for you and your DC or he could carry on the way he was before and be bloody useless with the DC decide he can't cope and thinks he shouldn't have them as much which would be good for you financially and would mean you get more time with your DC.

Try not to panic and let your head rather than your heart lead you here(easier said than done I know)if he is great with them and he's having them 50% of the time there's nothing to say he can't get a job and support his own children financially just like you do.That would mean you wouldn't be carrying all the finances on your back alone.It would mean your DC got to spend time with a Daddy who deserves them and it would mean you had some time for yourself and the time you are with your DC will be even more precious.

Like I said lead with your head and not your heart if you ever receive text messages,emails,letters anything at all where he is asking you for more money outside of what's been agreed with the courts/your solicitors,asking you to swap days with him at the last minute without a very good reason,if he trys to dictate how you spend your time with your DC or you receive proof that he's not doing his best for the DC or your DC are unhappy when they're with they're Daddy for good reason make sure you keep any of that as proof.Because if a few of those things start happening you can go back to court and voice your concerns and ask for the access arrangements to be looked at again.

I am sorry you are so upset

I had a long conversation with a solicitor a couple of years ago when my then P, threatening to be ex, was saying he was going to "take the children". I was distraught - for myself, as well as for them - but I was talking in a very indignant way about how he didn't have a clue, has literally never cut their nails (still true), his writing does not appear once in their reading journals, he doesn't get up to them in the night, etc etc. The solicitor was very kind but very clear: do not talk like this and expect any legal system to take pity on you. It is not about you, it is not a battle between you and him and you "deserve" the children because you have done more work. It is about the children and you need to show that you are a bigger person and if - IF - it was better for them to be with him, even full time, you would accept that, because you are the person who has their interests at heart.

It was a really interesting conversation and it really opened my eyes to the fact that nobody gives a shit about being fair to me; but it was empowering and enlightening too because it left me with a really strong truth that I am well able to live up to, and do, every day, which is: it is the children that matter and I honestly, sincerely, do everything that is best for them.

He also said "most men think that they are as well able as mothers to look after their children. I am not like most men because I have seen a lot of families in a lot of detail, doing what I do. I think that most mothers are much better than most fathers for their children."

This:

"In that case dad should have the DC full time as he was the SAHP so was their primary carer. "

is a canard. With men, (and strictly speaking, with women too), not WOH doesn't mean that they are primary carer. IMO the conventions about primary carers are based on circumstances where SAHPs were nearly always women and very very committed to doing a good job with children and homemaking. There is no logical correlation between someone not having a job and doing anything much at home.

Legally, though, he'd be able to make a good argument that he is primary carer because he is home, and the court is likely to accept that on the basis of what has been said, just as they do in cases where the woman is at home and is therefore primary carer. I think the court would be very careful to ensure they treated him exactly as they would someone else in that position.

I think OP has got a good outcome having 50/50, even if it's a shock. I do wonder how the legal advice was so poor though. It would have helped immensely if OP had been able to mentally prepare herself for this.

HowBadIsThisPlease

If you are going to quote me can you please do so in the context of which I wrote it

That one line was in response to a poster who believed the children should reside with only 1 parent (meaning the OP who is mum). I was pointing out that in most cases residency is generally given to the primary carer which in this case is dad.

Keep strong OP I understand it will be hard to adjust (and to have this big mortgage)... But your kids will have a relationship with their dad and this is positive!! They are usually much more flexible than we think.
And you'll never know what's around the corner...your ex may get busier at work , or find a new partner, so this agreement can still change in the future.

My DP has a 50:50 arrangement with his kids. It works brilliantly and they are very happy and well-adjusted. I have an about 60:40 arrangement with my kids. They are also very happy. They are teenagers now and are starting to make their own decisions about when they go where.

I realise you are in shock but you really do need to adjust your mind set on this. They are not "of no fixed abode!. Quite the opposite. They have two homes!