Epic story of being a crap husband. *very long*

[gshavik]

Not sure what/where or particularly how to start but basically this...

Wife just buggered off with the children to her parents on Saturday. Piled them into the car and left with no goodbye, just 'you need to grow the fuck up'. Hasn't returned yet, no indications when that might happen presently.

Good start?

To expand, we're at a bit of impasse. I'm actually not even sure why but for once my conscience is totally clear and I'm pretty certain that I'm not being unreasonable. Consider this.

I have my own small business, which is in a difficult place just now as it doesn't yet run on its own without me (...work in progress), and our industry is in particularly challenging times. I used to work all the hours God sends (6am - 8pm was typical - sometimes longer - before our first child). That said it more than pays our bills and I've scaled back the work mainly to 9-6 these days in order to be at home more (her demands but I wanted to improve work/life balance too). Throw in the commute and that's about 8:30 - 6:30. Weekends are now virtually all ours.

She decided just before DC1 that she wanted to be a SAHM, which was fine with me but it meant all income now rests on my shoulders. OK - not a major problem but places a bit more stress on my abilities to provide for everything, replacing her salary. I don't mind that and I'm fortunate that I'm in a position where that was possible (at a push, but possible nonetheless).

A few years later and DC3 has been on the scene for some 10 months now and it's obviously a bit busy looking after the three children each day almost every day. I'm under no illusion as to how much of a handful they are (DC1 is about 3.5 YO just now) - but I help out with them as much as I can in the mornings, evenings and at the weekends. On one weekend day, she gets a lie-in, and the other day I get one. In theory. In practice my lie-in consists of having either DC2 or DC3 dumped on me in bed around 6:30 for maybe an hour or so (which I don't resent but it's supposed to be a lie-in...). Thereafter she makes a LOT of noise screaming and yelling at them for this or that, not to mention basically stomping around the house - hardly light underfoot - in a rather chaotic manner. Basically I don't really get the lie-in or sleep and I'm generally up and dressed by about 8:30-9ish because there is no chance of getting sleep. By comparison when she has her lie-in I try as far as possible to have them all contained in the sitting room with their breakfasts and nappy changes all done with fairly minimal fuss, keeping them all playing about and capering happily with basically no need for all the shouting that goes on when she is with them. Basically, it's doable with little to no chaos barring the odd unexpected mishap. These has been the pattern for months now. I'm not saying that I'm better at it - I really don't think that - but as I'll explain more later I'm growing more and more concerned that it's intentional, with a view to teaching me something.

So, our house, as you might imagine with three young children is prone to breakages. Wear and tear on most things would be high anyway I should imagine, and the replacement rate of stuff broken or worn out is ridiculous. Some of it is fair enough, I repaired our washing machine three times as after a few years of being overloaded or having stuff trapped in the door before starting the cycle took its toll. NBD - I'm pretty handy and replaced that. It had taken a few weeks of sizing up the possible options/performance/price and I got one at a bank-holiday sale to keep costs down. Hotpoint 8kg load, 1600rpm spin, 14 minute quick cycle. Great.
Same with the tumble drier - two days when it failed for the last time meant a ridiculous back log of washing that took about two weeks to clear up when the weather was bad over the winter there. Again, NBD, I found another one with 8kg load and had that installed one morning before heading into work. BTW; our electric bill over the winter quarter came to ~£1600. Yeah, that's right. Paid that.

I'm told we need a dishwasher now. OK, but we have a pretty small kitchen and fitting that isn't quite as straightforward as just replacing one. One 600mm cupboard has to be given up (there is already a lack of space) and the carcass hacked up a bit to accommodate. Plumbing, again NBD, but the real issue is the electrics - there is no socket in the back there. In fact, as it transpires (my friend is an electrician, and I know my way around electrics too), the electrics in the kitchen were previously bodged by another owner and the circuit run to the kitchen appears to be using the incorrectly sized cables - we'd discovered this sometime before the dishwasher raised its head. OK, now we have a problem and a potential fire risk if more consumers are added to the circuit, basically the old wiring needs to be replaced with a proper ring circuit, not sure to how many sockets off the top of my head but let’s say it'll take two people about a day to replace and re-wire. Suddenly fitting a dishwasher becomes a whole lot more involved. Enough detail?
So, I explained that this isn't going to be quick job and will need a good deal more than she imagined in order to realise the vision of zero-hassle dishwashing (ha). Not to be disheartened she got her father to give a second opinion whilst I was at work (I should say he means well but is a bit of a bodger with no particular electrical knowledge) - he glanced at the plumbing and the cupboard and stated he didn't see a particular problem. I got accused of being a liar - that was months ago. I am still, apparently, a liar.

A week ago, on a whim she decided that we now need a bigger whirly washing line. I feigned ignorance to the problem (seeing where the conversation was headed and already thinking what now...?), but apparently she wants to be able to get 3 full loads of washing done in ~45 minutes but the line isn't big enough to take that. Putting the physical problems of digging out the big concrete lump buried in the garden aside for a moment, how on earth can we generate 24kgs of washing that suddenly needs doing? Ok - nice weather, maybe get some bedding done, but SRSLY? I wouldn't argue that our existing whirly is a bit crap - 3 arms, not very big. However I've managed two good size loads onto it by thinking about the order stuff gets hung. I think the key concept being missed is staggering or planning or just generally 'keeping on top of it' - maybe easier said than done but still...

A couple months back, her car (a small MPV) got written off in a no-fault accident. Insurance pay out was ok but far from what was needed for a newer car. She wanted a 7-seater. It had to be a seven-seater. OK, so a Zafira it was then. A 13-plate Zafira, about 10k on the clock, superb condition. Good boot space for the buggies and shopping etc. Very practical. I spent weeks weighing up the pros and cons of these fire-prone cars, eventually finding one that was within a sensible price-range that already had the recall work done. It's never held 7 people in it. I doubt it ever will, but it absolutely had to be a 7-seater - her friend has one. Meanwhile, I bought it outright, had to take another hit to the wallet - to be fair I'd rather do that than get it on-tick. I don't grudge getting the car. I do grudge that she wouldn't drive me to the train station to go to collect it, and I grudge that she instead called her parents through from about 80 miles away for the sole purpose of driving me 12 miles to the train station. Frankly, I was a bit embarrassed about that. Clearly it was totally unreasonable of me to expect her to help me help her. I didn't get any thanks for the car until I mentioned the lack-thereof about a week later.

So what's the problem? Apparently none of that.

1. Get the dishwasher fitted while she's at her mums. Do the DIY now, and recognise that when they're back anything not urgent is just not necessary.

1. Don't just agree to counselling, arrange it. You want to save your marriage - SHOW it!

I had three under three at one point. I hated it. I went back to work early because it was either than or lose my sanity.

I love my kids but being around them ALL THE TIME is just not for me. I'm not very domestic and I hate not having a second to myself. I also hate living in a shithole but lack the motivation to do much about it.

If you ignore this OP and keep focusing on the things that you do vs. the things she doesn't do (or doesn't do right) you will end up alone in a pristine house.

I agree with Felica. Getting the dishwasher fitted would show that you're willing to listen. To hell with the moss.

Is there any point now though? She's left him. I think they would be better off separating.

This reminds me so much of my ex - especially the researching white goods for weeks - when he left the washing machine broke - I bought the cheapest one & it's still working 2 1/2 years later

Reading your posts it seems you are holding a lot of grudges, would it be fair to say that you/ wife have gotten to a point where it's become a bit tit for tat?
It sounds like both of you are good ppl working hard.. I hope you get some counselling together and can learn to let things go.
You both have a lot going on and even the most laid back ppl would struggle under the pressure, good luck op.

I only half read the op.

Am glad she appears to have ltb though. I got to the laminate flooring. So she has spent 5 days looking after the dcs. 2 days presumably looking after the dcs. Followed by another 5 days looking after the dcs.

Why don't you pay someone to do your diy? My dp is a builder so pretty handy. He paid someone to put our flooring down as we value weekends as a family. A break for me from the dcs and a break for him from work.

Also I think you need to rejig your home life. As it's your own business drop down to 4 days. Let your wife work 3 days for a break.

I think OP is long gone, but I hope he took to heart some of the fantastic advice on this thread. However, having read his original post and then his responses, I suspect he just came here looking for sympathy and commiseration and hoping to be told he was right about everything. He seemed much more interested in point-scoring than in receiving real advice. Shame, really, because if your wife taking the kids and leaving you doesn't give your head a wobble, what will?

Frouby, exactly. My ex was like the op and was/used to be an electrician. He refused to get people in as 'he'd do it'. I had holes in walls with wiring showing for 8 years, then I left him. I'd get bollocked as soon as I'd mention getting a bloke in! Twat.

OP Have you heard from your wife since she left? Any communication? Have you tried to call her or see how she/the children are?

Ooh, a Mr Right, with a side order of Demander garnished with Victim.

It reminds me very much of the story in the Mr. Right description actually, where the "Mr. Right" says his wife is so unreasonable because she wants to swap their car willy nilly as though money grows on trees. Lundy asks "So you mean she wants to change the sports car for a family car with a good safety rating and more efficient fuel economy?" and he says "Yeah that's what I said, a shit box."

OP, given that your wife hasn't replied to this with her perspective (which, if it were me, I'd be gagging to do), I'm wondering if perhaps she doesn't spend quite as much time faffing around on Mumsnet as you suggest.

I further wonder how many of the endless snarky, petty criticisms of her (which you constantly go out of your way to pretend don't matter to you, but clearly do) are also exaggerated or misleading. Most of them, I'd guess.

Completely agree with Screaming and Bertie, you're a classic Mr Right. You seem incapable of relaying any 'information' about your wife, even a purported compliment, without undermining it with a snide remark, or some other aside that makes clear that you are the reasonable, correct one, and she's some cranky, status-obsessed, over-emotional nag. You say you're "not perfect", but it's obviously a platitude because you offer no evidence of how you might be imperfect. Other than the evidence that is staring everyone in the face from your posts.

OP, we have 3 under 4, we are a team. I have just woken up from a migraine brought on by the storm. My DH came home from a 12 hour day to put all the kids to bed and dealt with their bedtime shenanigans on his own. The baby was screaming to be BF but I was vomming in the loo so it was like a mad house.

Anyway some points that stand out to me:

Why are you sorting out washing machines/dishwashers? Surely the person who uses them 99% of the time needs to choose the white goods. Is this something she asks you to do for her? Or is it something you do to help her? Because really if my DH even for one second decided to be in charge of the washing machine purchase I would invoke family clause, "if you think you can do a better job you can do it all yourself from now on." Washing machines absolutely the greatest invention in the world I take care of mine a lot! If it died I would have a mental breakdown. What you think is important may not be to someone who washes clothes day in/out and has to use it with one hand whilst holding a baby etc... Just let her sort it out.

We have some strange pulley operated washing line that has almost died. I want to replace it, I have it on my 2017 to do list. Yes I have a to do list THAT long. But really it's a budget thing. I am not just a mother I am the fucking manager of this home. I run this place, I am the sole reason people sleep in tidyish rooms, eat good food and wear clean clothes everyday unless I'm sick like last night.

We did try the 50/50 decisions thing but in the end it wasn't working. I picked the car (7 seat godsend), I pick and purchase everything. If a home improvement needs doing I arrange tradesmen to come and do it for us at a time suitable for me. Again I thought DH could help here but in the end we wanted quality family time at weekends and it's helped a lot! Also I arrange the tradesmen DH has no idea what time of day or which days are best do I need to do it.

I control the budget, I don't run anything out of the monthly budget past my DH. He has his savings and me mine, everything else I sort out. He trusts me, god if I had to run everything past him I would go back to work and he can stay at home. A threat I have made from time to time, not impossible and one he wholly admits to not taking the offer up on. On account of him already done 6 months with our first.

Sleep deprivation is a killer everyone in your house is suffering from it. Get that sorted, YOU and your wife need to tackle it together. I say this to my DH too, he doesn't change a nappy or brush a child's hair for me but for them. Child raising is both your responsibility. DH took a week off to toilet train the middle child, he did and god I love him for it! One less child's nappy to deal with!!

My DH who I now consider a saint after reading this, brings me tea and toast every morning before he goes to work. Gets the eldest up, their toast, milk and toilet. About 60% of the days he does bedtimes.

We have a gardener I budget for him. It means we don't have to lose DH to the lawns in summer. Pay someone, if you can to help at home. Be it cleaning or even childminder a morning or two a week. You only live once.

The only thing That would annoy me about your wife is the not taking care of stuff. It sounds like she is very very at the end of coping. If she is giving up on caring. Especially if she has not always been like that. Please listen to her. It won't be forever.

Btw I am DHs second wife, he tells me he learned how to be a better spouse from the mistakes he made first time round! Don't do what he did and listen to your wife!

gshavik, is there a possibility to move to another house/flat in which you don't have to input so much of your time and concentrate on spending more quality time with your wife as her husband?

About children: I have two boys and sometimes it feels like four of them. Kids are different and so we are. My cousin-in-law has five. She has so much energy that you will not believe she has five children. She also doesn't have any health issues after five pregnancies (e.g. varicose veins).

As for the washing machine I do understand your point. We don't have one and I do all the dishes most of the time. My sister has one and I can see that by the time the dishes reach the dishwasher I would have already finished washing them in the sink. However, she likes her dishwasher and I respect it. If your wife wants a dishwasher then she probably needs it unless you are prepared to do all the washing by yourself. If you cannot do all the washing (although you have mentioned that you do help with it regularly) then respect her wish. It will ease her day and improve the relationship between both of you.

Looking after small children is quite draining and you need to thin how to ease your day-to-day routine so by the end of the day you would talk to your partner without any resentment.

I believe that you are a good husband and you have sincere intentions to improve your relationship with your wife. I wish you well.

I have a feeling OP may have discovered that he's not negotiating from the position of strength he'd assumed he was, while taking the continuation of his marriage utterly for granted.

Looking back, it's such an odd OP, 'my wife has left, I don't know why, I'm not going to ask (because how could her feelings, experience or ideas possibly be helpful, interesting or relevant, to our marriage?) but here are lots and lots and lots of ways in which I am right, she is wrong and she is less than me'.

It's the battle cry of someone who wants to prove they were the wronged party when they divorce.

Even after 300+ very helpful, insightful and constructive posts, his top three learning points do not include 'ask wife why she left and listen to the answer'.

Rather, he wants to get to the bottom of why they both behave as they do. Because he's really insightful, empathetic and will make a great job of being chief investigator (and I fear, judge) of what those reasons are (and whether or not they are valid).

Good luck with that OP.

I have mixed feelings on this thread - I see some of my husbands traits in you - endlessly researching a big purchase for weeks and then we end up buying the first one that I pointed out at the beginning, so to me that's weeks wasted but to him it's satisfaction that he has picked the "right" one. Making a decision is a long drawn out process, but his behavior annoys him as much as me and I know it's something that he's working on.

We currently have 2 children under 3, it's hard. We make it work because we work as a team, I do most of the cooking, laundry, cleaning but he will always wash up and chip in when needed or if I told him to. I am quite happy doing this, he takes care of the DIY projects, budgeting, gardening, car maintenance. Bedtimes, playing with the children, night wakings, drop offs and pick ups to childminders are all shared between us. He appreciates all the hard work I do to keep the house going and I appreciate all the hard work he does and we tell each other, all the time. It sounds like you and your wife have lost respect for each other among all this tit for tat, you both need to start listening and talking to each other.

This sentence up thread is the answer to your problems:

If your wife was a broken appliance you would spend hours researching how to fix her, as it is you won't even spend one hour at counselling, think about how that approach makes her feel. Your marriage is broken, research how to fix it

I will also add though that I would be raging if my husband was constantly spilling diet coke on the floor to the point that it needed replaced, that's just laziness. Go and get a cup with a lid on it, problem solved! You also have to pour the water from the tumble drier somewhere so walking a few steps to a drain rather than pouring it on the drive when you know it annoys the hell out of your husband is also lazy and probably done on purpose as a passive aggressive 'fuck you'!

Good luck OP, you've gotten some great advice on this thread!

gshavik

This is quite sad to read, just a long long list of incredibly petty complaints about your wife. Who has just left you.
Oh, and a quick "I love my wife" thrown in at the end.

Sorry, but that love does not come across in your post at all, where you:

• criticise the way she does laundry: "the key concept being missed is staggering or planning or just generally 'keeping on top of it'"

This alone would make me lose all sympathy with you, your wife has THREE YOUNG CHILDREN to look after and you are critiquing her lack of forward planning with the laundry?!

• split hairs and create pointless conflict over something as trivial as getting a new washing line. (and go on, and on, and on about it)

She wants a new washing line, you can afford it. Instead of offering 'helpful' advice as it sounds like you are doing, prioritise her happiness and get a new bloody washing line. I would also like to point out that a) the money you earn belongs to BOTH of you, I don't like sound of the way you are holding the purse strings and treating her like a child and b) a washing line/whirly that she deems big enough for what she needs is hardly a luxury item. If you're making a fuss about this, I can't imagine you spend much time actually considering what might bring a smile to her face.

• try to make her sound shallow and vacuous by stating that your car "absolutely had to be a 7-seater - her friend has one"

Do you not see how unloving and disrespectful that is?? You have three children, car seats to fit in and presumably all the stuff that goes with them, I don't see how a people carrier is an unreasonable ask. It's not about whether on a day-to-day basis 7 people will be travelling in it!!

• add in a whole bunch of extraneous detail about mileage and price and recalls and god knows what. Actually, you do that with everything in your post. Why? The condensed version here is that you bought a car to suit the needs of your relatively large family. Hold the front page!

Are we meant to read into this that you think you have gone above and beyond? Because to be clear, you haven't. "I bought it outright, had to take another hit to the wallet" This is LIFE, mate. Things cost money, you have a family. The money you earn is BOTH of yours and a new car was needed, end of.

• wow us with the tale of your kitchen heroics, the laminate flooring. If only your wife wouldn't keep leaving coke cans around...oh and she moved the first aid kit, how very dare she! At a glance I would say caffeine is probably the only thing keeping her going with three children at home, in that scenario your whinging about leaving coke cans where they might spill is just beyond a joke. She is a human being, not a robot! Maybe even a quite messy human being, as we discover to our joy here:

"She would still continue to pour water all over the drive, or leave Diet Coke where it’ll spill, or destroy the Teflon pans with metal utensils (don’t get me started…), or leave dishcloths lying in stagnant dishwater rather than rinse them out, or yank/slam drawers to destruction, or jam so many coats on the back of a door coat hanger than the door literally splits the door frame at the hinges, or any one of a number of things that I have (or haven’t) stated causes a problem. I’m not a nag [yeah right]"

Alright so the floor needed replacing, but leave your diet coke related grievance out of it, that is petty. You say the rest of the house needed doing when you moved in, so hey ho now you've done the kitchen too.

And, unless it is by mutual agreement, spending the entire weekend on this project isn't fair because your wife rightfully expects you to do your share of parenting, I would imagine she is very much in need of a break at that stage. Any reason you couldn't have got someone out to do it? I understand you are frugal but again this is about prioritising your wife's happiness (which you were already aware was near crisis point) and agreeing things together as adults. You don't do that, do you? So yes, she was pissed off. All you can see is that you did a job in the house and aren't you wonderful, that is not the full story here. You didn't collaborate. You didn't consider her needs, her feelings. You're not connecting.

• the moss, the garage, the bathroom, the...whatever. I'm never getting back the time I spent reading all that. It's just more differences of opinion, more differences of approach. But the thing is that you are willing to lose a marriage over it. Because clearly, it's that important.

If someone was on at me all the time about where I poured out water, about my length and temperature of showers, my dreadful habit of leaving the bathroom window shut, coke cans, too much stuff on a hook etc.... WHILE I BROUGHT UP HIS THREE CHILDREN.... I can't tell you how unhappy I would be, how much I would come to resent and dislike you. I would also more than likely resort to coping behaviours of the type you mention - phone calls, mumsnet, watching "nonsense" (your word) on TV. Anything to not have to hear about it, think about it.

Now having said all that I believe that somewhere deep down you DO love your wife and want to save your marriage. But this is not the way. I'm sure she isn't perfect and her habits may annoy you. But you need to think about whether you are the kind of person who can actually live with other people. You describe these as the "base issues", you identify them as "hypocrisy and double standards". It's your attitude that needs adjusting here, big time. You are not going to turn this woman into a neat freak, so either accept and love her or move on and stop making each other miserable.

You need to get a dishwasher (you say this argument happened months ago, I doubt the obstacles you mentioned are insurmountable) - totally understandable request. Get the whirly thing and install it while she is gone, and think about things you can do that will actually create some good feelings between the two of you. At this point I would imagine that on your wife's part at least, they are virtually at zero.

Haven't read it all but someone needs to take a massive chill pill.

"I know I have a fundamentally different approach to life to that of a female - I look at everything (rightly or wrongly) as problems to be dealt with. Funnily enough, that was the attraction when got together. I spend far too long trying to make the right choice when sometimes (not always) the quicker wrong choice would be good enough."

"Generally to all - I see the word contempt getting used a lot here; I hadn't thought of that before and can see that it could well be coming through in my frustration. How did I get it and how can I get rid? Seriously, more I think of this the more I can see it and I'm not even sure how it crept up on me."

Here is your issue, right here. Your take is that any decision you make after careful consideration is the right decision. You do not stop to find out if your own priorities are universal or indeed ask your wife if she might have different priorities.

Because it would never occur to you in a hundred years that in an equal relationship between two adults your ideas of what the priorities should be (pristine driveway or convenience with laundry, floor or washing machine) only count for 50%. And you are never going to get beyond that because you do not seriously consider your wife an adult thinking person in the same way that you do yourself. And now that she realises this, you have lost her.

It is not your frustration that betrays your contempt: it is the fact that you never thought her views were equally valid in the first place.

"I know I have a fundamentally different approach to life to that of a female"

And what, pray, might a female approach to life be?

(I guess that's rhetorical ...)

Oh I expect it involves hormones, feelings, unimportant minutae and irrationality. All defined by him.

Just for info OP.

I don't hate men, I hate assholes.

If you saw hate in what I wrote, think about what that hate was about, won't you.

Does anyone else have the urge to visit the op and have a party deliberately pouring Diet Coke on his precious driveway?