Epic story of being a crap husband. *very long*

[gshavik]

Not sure what/where or particularly how to start but basically this...

Wife just buggered off with the children to her parents on Saturday. Piled them into the car and left with no goodbye, just 'you need to grow the fuck up'. Hasn't returned yet, no indications when that might happen presently.

Good start?

To expand, we're at a bit of impasse. I'm actually not even sure why but for once my conscience is totally clear and I'm pretty certain that I'm not being unreasonable. Consider this.

I have my own small business, which is in a difficult place just now as it doesn't yet run on its own without me (...work in progress), and our industry is in particularly challenging times. I used to work all the hours God sends (6am - 8pm was typical - sometimes longer - before our first child). That said it more than pays our bills and I've scaled back the work mainly to 9-6 these days in order to be at home more (her demands but I wanted to improve work/life balance too). Throw in the commute and that's about 8:30 - 6:30. Weekends are now virtually all ours.

She decided just before DC1 that she wanted to be a SAHM, which was fine with me but it meant all income now rests on my shoulders. OK - not a major problem but places a bit more stress on my abilities to provide for everything, replacing her salary. I don't mind that and I'm fortunate that I'm in a position where that was possible (at a push, but possible nonetheless).

A few years later and DC3 has been on the scene for some 10 months now and it's obviously a bit busy looking after the three children each day almost every day. I'm under no illusion as to how much of a handful they are (DC1 is about 3.5 YO just now) - but I help out with them as much as I can in the mornings, evenings and at the weekends. On one weekend day, she gets a lie-in, and the other day I get one. In theory. In practice my lie-in consists of having either DC2 or DC3 dumped on me in bed around 6:30 for maybe an hour or so (which I don't resent but it's supposed to be a lie-in...). Thereafter she makes a LOT of noise screaming and yelling at them for this or that, not to mention basically stomping around the house - hardly light underfoot - in a rather chaotic manner. Basically I don't really get the lie-in or sleep and I'm generally up and dressed by about 8:30-9ish because there is no chance of getting sleep. By comparison when she has her lie-in I try as far as possible to have them all contained in the sitting room with their breakfasts and nappy changes all done with fairly minimal fuss, keeping them all playing about and capering happily with basically no need for all the shouting that goes on when she is with them. Basically, it's doable with little to no chaos barring the odd unexpected mishap. These has been the pattern for months now. I'm not saying that I'm better at it - I really don't think that - but as I'll explain more later I'm growing more and more concerned that it's intentional, with a view to teaching me something.

So, our house, as you might imagine with three young children is prone to breakages. Wear and tear on most things would be high anyway I should imagine, and the replacement rate of stuff broken or worn out is ridiculous. Some of it is fair enough, I repaired our washing machine three times as after a few years of being overloaded or having stuff trapped in the door before starting the cycle took its toll. NBD - I'm pretty handy and replaced that. It had taken a few weeks of sizing up the possible options/performance/price and I got one at a bank-holiday sale to keep costs down. Hotpoint 8kg load, 1600rpm spin, 14 minute quick cycle. Great.
Same with the tumble drier - two days when it failed for the last time meant a ridiculous back log of washing that took about two weeks to clear up when the weather was bad over the winter there. Again, NBD, I found another one with 8kg load and had that installed one morning before heading into work. BTW; our electric bill over the winter quarter came to ~£1600. Yeah, that's right. Paid that.

I'm told we need a dishwasher now. OK, but we have a pretty small kitchen and fitting that isn't quite as straightforward as just replacing one. One 600mm cupboard has to be given up (there is already a lack of space) and the carcass hacked up a bit to accommodate. Plumbing, again NBD, but the real issue is the electrics - there is no socket in the back there. In fact, as it transpires (my friend is an electrician, and I know my way around electrics too), the electrics in the kitchen were previously bodged by another owner and the circuit run to the kitchen appears to be using the incorrectly sized cables - we'd discovered this sometime before the dishwasher raised its head. OK, now we have a problem and a potential fire risk if more consumers are added to the circuit, basically the old wiring needs to be replaced with a proper ring circuit, not sure to how many sockets off the top of my head but let’s say it'll take two people about a day to replace and re-wire. Suddenly fitting a dishwasher becomes a whole lot more involved. Enough detail?
So, I explained that this isn't going to be quick job and will need a good deal more than she imagined in order to realise the vision of zero-hassle dishwashing (ha). Not to be disheartened she got her father to give a second opinion whilst I was at work (I should say he means well but is a bit of a bodger with no particular electrical knowledge) - he glanced at the plumbing and the cupboard and stated he didn't see a particular problem. I got accused of being a liar - that was months ago. I am still, apparently, a liar.

A week ago, on a whim she decided that we now need a bigger whirly washing line. I feigned ignorance to the problem (seeing where the conversation was headed and already thinking what now...?), but apparently she wants to be able to get 3 full loads of washing done in ~45 minutes but the line isn't big enough to take that. Putting the physical problems of digging out the big concrete lump buried in the garden aside for a moment, how on earth can we generate 24kgs of washing that suddenly needs doing? Ok - nice weather, maybe get some bedding done, but SRSLY? I wouldn't argue that our existing whirly is a bit crap - 3 arms, not very big. However I've managed two good size loads onto it by thinking about the order stuff gets hung. I think the key concept being missed is staggering or planning or just generally 'keeping on top of it' - maybe easier said than done but still...

A couple months back, her car (a small MPV) got written off in a no-fault accident. Insurance pay out was ok but far from what was needed for a newer car. She wanted a 7-seater. It had to be a seven-seater. OK, so a Zafira it was then. A 13-plate Zafira, about 10k on the clock, superb condition. Good boot space for the buggies and shopping etc. Very practical. I spent weeks weighing up the pros and cons of these fire-prone cars, eventually finding one that was within a sensible price-range that already had the recall work done. It's never held 7 people in it. I doubt it ever will, but it absolutely had to be a 7-seater - her friend has one. Meanwhile, I bought it outright, had to take another hit to the wallet - to be fair I'd rather do that than get it on-tick. I don't grudge getting the car. I do grudge that she wouldn't drive me to the train station to go to collect it, and I grudge that she instead called her parents through from about 80 miles away for the sole purpose of driving me 12 miles to the train station. Frankly, I was a bit embarrassed about that. Clearly it was totally unreasonable of me to expect her to help me help her. I didn't get any thanks for the car until I mentioned the lack-thereof about a week later.

So what's the problem? Apparently none of that.

I have never weighed my washing!

Two more things.
The floor took precedence over the dishwasher. The dishwasher was within sight. The electrical issues were going to be resolved. And then it was gone because your pet project was more difficult than you thought.
Secondly let's think about demands. Who do you think is more demanding? Her or the children? She spends all week (and DIY weekends) dealing with pre school demands. "Mummeeeeeeee!" Every other minute. Wipe my bum, wipe my nose, look at this, play with me, carry me, noooo don't do that etc. And you're there going Wifey, don't do that, I want a cuddle, noooo don't do that etc.

Misfit!

"A week ago, on a whim she decided that we now need a bigger whirly washing line. I feigned ignorance to the problem (seeing where the conversation was headed and already thinking what now...?), but apparently she wants to be able to get 3 full loads of washing done in ~45 minutes but the line isn't big enough to take that. Putting the physical problems of digging out the big concrete lump buried in the garden aside for a moment, how on earth can we generate 24kgs of washing that suddenly needs doing? Ok - nice weather, maybe get some bedding done, but SRSLY? I wouldn't argue that our existing whirly is a bit crap - 3 arms, not very big. However I've managed two good size loads onto it by thinking about the order stuff gets hung. I think the key concept being missed is staggering or planning or just generally 'keeping on top of it' - maybe easier said than done but still..."

I have two children and have a five arm whirly gig; your wife is asking for very practical items that she needs, she is most likely almost comatose with exhaustion and needs all the help she can get. Instead of helping her out in any way you can you are questioning her need for a bigger washing line and that she should plan her washing better on a three arm whirly gig! Just that bit alone makes me realise you have no concept of what three under age four is like. So it is okay for her to have to cope with this tremendous workload of three young children but each time she urgently asks you for help (and it is urgent) you are downplaying her needs; making her out to be a drama queen and a bit of a spoilt princess? Like a previous poster commented, she is not asking for furs and diamonds. She wants a sodding washing machine, bigger whirly gig and new dishwasher.

You sound like really hard work and she does not have any spare energy to debate and argue her case to a DH who is so clearly patronising and condescending when talking about his DW. You should be worshipping the ground she walks on for doing what she does on a daily basis. I challenge you to give your DW a week off and look after your three DC by yourself; I can guarantee you will be begging to get back to work for a rest by day 2.

I've always wondered whether it's the dry weight or wet.

Where's 'I'm perfect big bullocks' now?

I'd hope he has taken in what we've all said, highly unlikely... Probably saying to himself "all women are the same"!

Surely it must be dry weight?

That bit about the washing line is astounding.

Clearly you have mistaken yourself for your wife's line manager. I'm sure she's doing her best at e.g. avoiding spills, after all she's the poor cow who has to mop them up. Why do you lack simple faith in her? You make her sound like a slobby idiot.

You pride yourself on your logic but where was it when you took it upon yourself to cancel essential electrical work in favour of making your living room smell better???

You treated us all to a full paragraph about how bad the electrics are in the kitchen and the potential fire risk, then canceled the work because you'd decided that a non-smelly floor was more important.

Where was the logic in even starting to lay a new floor on the same weekend that you had booked someone to carry out work in the house?

You also complained about the electricity bill and were kind enough to tell us the exact amount that it had cost. Your wife suggests getting a better washing line (cutting down on the need for the tumble drier to be on and therefore reducing your moss build-up) but you turn your nose up at that too.

The irony is that you have your wife categorised as "emotional" when your own examples have shown that her decisions were far more logical than your own.

Oh yes and rather than digging the old one out, how about just adding another (good four arm) line that goes in a sleeve so you can remove it if you want to. And by you, I mean you and that the default is the washing lines are both up and ready.

I like how you class an airer, dishwasher etc as FOR YOUR WIFE. So she never uses/will use it for your stuff then? She does everyone else's washing/washing up while leaving your stuff for you to do when you come home, does she? I'm sure she doesn't (you'd have mentioned it) but even if she did, you would surely be using the newer, better appliances bought with family money FOR THE FAMILY!

Why the fuck did you prioritise a manky but serviceable floor over actual hazardous electrics? If your poor wife is the one who spends more time in the kitchen doing everyone's dishes and cooking that must feel a right slap in the face.

I so agree Pert.

Not read the whole FT, but OP, have you considered that your wife is asking you to "do" material stuff, as that's the only stuff you're interested in doing. A kind of "if you must do DIY, at least do something that would help our lives" attitude.

Maybe she'd rather you actually spent time with her as a family, took the kids out, cooked lunch etc? When was the last time you went out as a family? Or as a couple?

I have never weighed it before! I weighed myself holding the basket, then again with the dry washing in. Waiting for the washer to break now!

My big, constructive message to you OP is this: going to counselling is not 'giving in to her demands' it is accepting a great big - the greatest, biggest possible - offer of an olive branch from her.

That olive branch conveys 'there is still some hope for this marriage and I want to make it work, please help me'.

If either of you thinks counselling is a way of proving yourself right, you're wrong and this will cause the process to fail.

I fear (for you) that by turning down that olive branch, a last attempt to salvage something together, you have ended your marriage. Your choice.

A phrase I use quite often, with myself, DP, about other people, is 'do you want to be right or do you want to have friends?'. The nub of this is that it isn't a direct trade off, you don't have to declare yourself wrong about something you believe yourself to be right about, or abase yourself publicly to buy friendship. Rather, it is a question of wider priorities. Is your priority to have friends / a wife, so to think about and do things likely to maintain and allow yourself to enjoy that condition? Or is it to believe yourself to be right?

The really sad thing about that is that, unless you're a judge, or the prime minister, no-one else cares what you believe and they'd probably disagree with you anyway.

Do you want to live on a lonely island of internal-illusion-of-rightness? Or do you want to be a husband?

The more I read the more I'm raging for your wife!

I want her to drop off the kids today and go on a holiday for 2 weeks so you can experience her world.

I'll bet with 3 loud, demanding kids you'll have limited time to give thought to what fucking order the clothes go on the whirly thing.

And you'll be begging for a dishwasher.

I am irrationally irritated by the emptying the dryer water issue. Condenser dryers come with the ability to empty the water directly into a drain. The hose to do this is supplied and it takes about five minutes and the flick of a switch. If the OP is so careful about everything himself, he could have just read the instructions when he bought it and done this. He'd rather spend the time bullying his exhausted wife.

You need to read your washing machine manual.
It may take an 8 kg load and it has a quickwash function BUT that doesn't mean you can do a full load on a 15 minute quickwash!
It usually tells you not to put more than 3 kg in a quickwash, which is meant for lightly soiled garments. It will not wash 3 kids worth of food/poo stains.
And as you mentioned, the spin cycle on a quickwash is less rpm. Select option to switch off spin cycle, then once wash has finished just put it on a faster spin. Not bloody rocket science.

Why would you need 3 loads done in an hour anyway? You can't stick it all in dryer and it won't fit on line. Far more efficient to do 2 full loads on a normal cycle. The first load will be drying whilst 2nd load is washing.

My DP had zero input in my choice of washing machine/dryer because i'm the one who uses it on a daily basis. Would be like me choosing his car even though I don't drive it.

Your poor wife has lost herself and you are failing to step back and see the bigger picture. I would take work over being a SAHM to 3 under 4 every time. Try to imagine 24/7 being on call to constant demands x3 with no break execpt for 1 crappy lie in. It's fucking torture. She will be mentally and physically fucked and is now beyond breaking point and all you just keep knitpicking over utter crap.

I feel a strange compulsion to go and weigh our washing.

Do you think OP is the type of person who buys his wife a hoover for her birthday? I don't think the hoover has been mentioned yet. What about the hoover, OP? And the iron?

Sweet Jesus.

I feel emotionally batter just reading this; God love the woman living it

Now my less constructive response, because your behaviour on this thread has made me angry. Not who you are, your behaviour - something you have complete control over.

I didn't read all of your massively over-long, self-indulgent (that's an emotionally driven behaviour) OP. Anyone who did deserves a medal.

Where is your huge, grateful, 'thank you' to ALL these busy, capable, clever, experienced, insightful, thoughtful people who have given up their time to try to help you? It doesn't matter whether you agree with their advice, or their perspective. They have given you their time. Show some manners.

Then address your superiority complex. I term it that way because it is a delusion and one that disadvantages you, a handicap.

You're wrong about dishwashers. What you describe is 'use of dishwashers circa 1982'. You don't have to do all that faffing. You can choose to if that's what floats your boat and you enjoy wasting time. That would be a very unintelligent choice in a busy household.

OP says he doesn't know his wife's username.

Then he says: "she's posted plenty about me before so I don't feel so bad about that."

So what do we think? Has she told him she's posted, and showed him the threads? Or is he lying about not knowing her username?

Either way, OP's wife, I hope you've got any further validation you need that your husband IBVU.

One other thing, I read a great link from Mumsnet that laid out how narcissists have this trick of saying things like: "I don't know WHY my daughter won't come and see me. When I begged her to tell me, she just talked a lot of nonsense."

That is - blurring out the real grievances, and feigning ignorance of why people are pissed off with them.

Not diagnosing anyone, but it's not a nice trait, and the OP would do well to listen properly next time, if he's lucky enough to get a next time.

Clearly you have mistaken yourself for your wife's line manager.

I am reminded of the opening of The New Yorker's classic take down of Powerpoint, dating back to 2001 when it was (in common usage, obviously it had been available for much longer) something quite new.

www.newyorker.com/magazine/2001/05/28/absolute-powerpoint

Before there were presentations, there were conversations, which were a little like presentations but used fewer bullet points, and no one had to dim the lights. A woman we can call Sarah Wyndham, a defense-industry consultant living in Alexandria, Virginia, recently began to feel that her two daughters weren’t listening when she asked them to clean their bedrooms and do their chores. So, one morning, she sat down at her computer, opened Microsoft’s PowerPoint program, and typed:

FAMILY MATTERS

An approach for positive change to the Wyndham family team

On a new page, she wrote:

·Lack of organization leads to confusion and frustration among all family members.

·Disorganization is detrimental to grades and to your social life.

·Disorganization leads to inefficiencies that impact the entire family.

Instead of pleading for domestic harmony, Sarah Wyndham was pitching for it. Soon she had eighteen pages of large type, supplemented by a color photograph of a generic happy family riding bicycles, and, on the final page, a drawing of a key—the key to success. The briefing was given only once, last fall. The experience was so upsetting to her children that the threat of a second showing was enough to make one of the Wyndham girls burst into tears.

I don't think op is coming back ... I think he wanted different answers.

I wonder if his wife has read this?

StVincent, it struck me that he uses all the Mumsnet acronyms accurately, which suggests someone who has spent quite a lot of time on here.