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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Epic story of being a crap husband. *very long*

382 replies

gshavik · 06/06/2016 20:56

Not sure what/where or particularly how to start but basically this...

Wife just buggered off with the children to her parents on Saturday. Piled them into the car and left with no goodbye, just 'you need to grow the fuck up'. Hasn't returned yet, no indications when that might happen presently.

Good start?

To expand, we're at a bit of impasse. I'm actually not even sure why but for once my conscience is totally clear and I'm pretty certain that I'm not being unreasonable. Consider this.

I have my own small business, which is in a difficult place just now as it doesn't yet run on its own without me (...work in progress), and our industry is in particularly challenging times. I used to work all the hours God sends (6am - 8pm was typical - sometimes longer - before our first child). That said it more than pays our bills and I've scaled back the work mainly to 9-6 these days in order to be at home more (her demands but I wanted to improve work/life balance too). Throw in the commute and that's about 8:30 - 6:30. Weekends are now virtually all ours.

She decided just before DC1 that she wanted to be a SAHM, which was fine with me but it meant all income now rests on my shoulders. OK - not a major problem but places a bit more stress on my abilities to provide for everything, replacing her salary. I don't mind that and I'm fortunate that I'm in a position where that was possible (at a push, but possible nonetheless).

A few years later and DC3 has been on the scene for some 10 months now and it's obviously a bit busy looking after the three children each day almost every day. I'm under no illusion as to how much of a handful they are (DC1 is about 3.5 YO just now) - but I help out with them as much as I can in the mornings, evenings and at the weekends. On one weekend day, she gets a lie-in, and the other day I get one. In theory. In practice my lie-in consists of having either DC2 or DC3 dumped on me in bed around 6:30 for maybe an hour or so (which I don't resent but it's supposed to be a lie-in...). Thereafter she makes a LOT of noise screaming and yelling at them for this or that, not to mention basically stomping around the house - hardly light underfoot - in a rather chaotic manner. Basically I don't really get the lie-in or sleep and I'm generally up and dressed by about 8:30-9ish because there is no chance of getting sleep. By comparison when she has her lie-in I try as far as possible to have them all contained in the sitting room with their breakfasts and nappy changes all done with fairly minimal fuss, keeping them all playing about and capering happily with basically no need for all the shouting that goes on when she is with them. Basically, it's doable with little to no chaos barring the odd unexpected mishap. These has been the pattern for months now. I'm not saying that I'm better at it - I really don't think that - but as I'll explain more later I'm growing more and more concerned that it's intentional, with a view to teaching me something.

So, our house, as you might imagine with three young children is prone to breakages. Wear and tear on most things would be high anyway I should imagine, and the replacement rate of stuff broken or worn out is ridiculous. Some of it is fair enough, I repaired our washing machine three times as after a few years of being overloaded or having stuff trapped in the door before starting the cycle took its toll. NBD - I'm pretty handy and replaced that. It had taken a few weeks of sizing up the possible options/performance/price and I got one at a bank-holiday sale to keep costs down. Hotpoint 8kg load, 1600rpm spin, 14 minute quick cycle. Great.
Same with the tumble drier - two days when it failed for the last time meant a ridiculous back log of washing that took about two weeks to clear up when the weather was bad over the winter there. Again, NBD, I found another one with 8kg load and had that installed one morning before heading into work. BTW; our electric bill over the winter quarter came to ~£1600. Yeah, that's right. Paid that.

I'm told we need a dishwasher now. OK, but we have a pretty small kitchen and fitting that isn't quite as straightforward as just replacing one. One 600mm cupboard has to be given up (there is already a lack of space) and the carcass hacked up a bit to accommodate. Plumbing, again NBD, but the real issue is the electrics - there is no socket in the back there. In fact, as it transpires (my friend is an electrician, and I know my way around electrics too), the electrics in the kitchen were previously bodged by another owner and the circuit run to the kitchen appears to be using the incorrectly sized cables - we'd discovered this sometime before the dishwasher raised its head. OK, now we have a problem and a potential fire risk if more consumers are added to the circuit, basically the old wiring needs to be replaced with a proper ring circuit, not sure to how many sockets off the top of my head but let’s say it'll take two people about a day to replace and re-wire. Suddenly fitting a dishwasher becomes a whole lot more involved. Enough detail?
So, I explained that this isn't going to be quick job and will need a good deal more than she imagined in order to realise the vision of zero-hassle dishwashing (ha). Not to be disheartened she got her father to give a second opinion whilst I was at work (I should say he means well but is a bit of a bodger with no particular electrical knowledge) - he glanced at the plumbing and the cupboard and stated he didn't see a particular problem. I got accused of being a liar - that was months ago. I am still, apparently, a liar.

A week ago, on a whim she decided that we now need a bigger whirly washing line. I feigned ignorance to the problem (seeing where the conversation was headed and already thinking what now...?), but apparently she wants to be able to get 3 full loads of washing done in ~45 minutes but the line isn't big enough to take that. Putting the physical problems of digging out the big concrete lump buried in the garden aside for a moment, how on earth can we generate 24kgs of washing that suddenly needs doing? Ok - nice weather, maybe get some bedding done, but SRSLY? I wouldn't argue that our existing whirly is a bit crap - 3 arms, not very big. However I've managed two good size loads onto it by thinking about the order stuff gets hung. I think the key concept being missed is staggering or planning or just generally 'keeping on top of it' - maybe easier said than done but still...

A couple months back, her car (a small MPV) got written off in a no-fault accident. Insurance pay out was ok but far from what was needed for a newer car. She wanted a 7-seater. It had to be a seven-seater. OK, so a Zafira it was then. A 13-plate Zafira, about 10k on the clock, superb condition. Good boot space for the buggies and shopping etc. Very practical. I spent weeks weighing up the pros and cons of these fire-prone cars, eventually finding one that was within a sensible price-range that already had the recall work done. It's never held 7 people in it. I doubt it ever will, but it absolutely had to be a 7-seater - her friend has one. Meanwhile, I bought it outright, had to take another hit to the wallet - to be fair I'd rather do that than get it on-tick. I don't grudge getting the car. I do grudge that she wouldn't drive me to the train station to go to collect it, and I grudge that she instead called her parents through from about 80 miles away for the sole purpose of driving me 12 miles to the train station. Frankly, I was a bit embarrassed about that. Clearly it was totally unreasonable of me to expect her to help me help her. I didn't get any thanks for the car until I mentioned the lack-thereof about a week later.

So what's the problem? Apparently none of that.

OP posts:
PlaydoughGirl · 07/06/2016 04:44

Sorry, accidentally posted before I had finished.
Why do you need to rationalise the above? Being rational isn't really working for you right now. Perhaps try another approach and see what happens.

I suspect your spectrummy characteristics are at the heart of many of these difficulties. And as those are an inherent part of you, and can't (and shouldn't - people on the spectrum are fabulous just the way they are) be changed, you and your wife will need to work out ways of communicating that mean that you both hear and respond to what the other person is saying (even if you don't understand it rationally). If you copied and pasted all your posts, printed them, and highlighted the parts discussing the washing machine/dryer, and then highlighted the parts where you discussed your wife's perspective/feelings, I suspect there would be a great disconnect.

You sound a lot like my FIL. He is a kind, generous, and loving man, and does nothing that he thinks is illogical or irrational. He was a very good provider, good at looking after possessions and doing DIY. He is, however, very lucky that my MIL is quite willing to go along with this, and she has a low requirement for things that have a less rational basis (affection, thoughtful gifts, kind words and praise). He will quite happily have a discussion about the philosophy of love from an academic perspective, but wouldn't even think about how to made his wife 'feel' loved, as her perspective is foreign to him (bog standard ASD theory of mind stuff). Your wife may need things that don't appear rational to you. This doesn't mean that they aren't rational, or that they are unnecessary. But you may also have difficulty putting yourself in her shoes (due to spectrum issues), so you will have to ask her instead. And listen to what she says without an ear for pointing out what's wrong, illogical, or unnecessary.

Zaurak · 07/06/2016 04:49

Look, you have to stop hiding behind this attitude that women are emotional and men are logical - it's doing you no favours at all. And it's coming across quite contemptuous- you're effectively saying woman = emotional= weak and dumb. Strong man provider = logical and capable. I say this as a woman who is slightly spocky.

And yes yes yes to the poster above pointing out that your wife has spent a significant amount of time pregnant. She must be exhausted. I had hyperemesis during my pregnancy (that's extreme vomiting, like dozens of time a day) then spd so bad my pelvis was falling apart. It took a huge toll on me mentally and physically. I remember one day lying on my office floor after I'd almost fainted holding a fucking call with the labs in Japan, thinking 'I am dying..' That's just one pregnancy. I'm not recovered and the baby is 8 months.
And she's also very likely to be 'touched out' - little kids pawing you all day, constantly touching you, a child on the breast. I'm not a touchy feely person and After 20 hours of this I just want to be left alone. Going in for a cuddle at 1 am (I do hope you mean a cuddle, not a cuddle uou wanted to turn into sex) is not something I want to happen. You can start feeling like your body is not yours to control. You MUST understand that surely, if you say you have spectrum traits?

If you want to reconcile with your wife, the following needs to change,

Ditch the 'I'm rainman' thing, you're not.
All money is family money. Does she have equal access? Does she need to justify to you what she spends? You cannot make her account for daily domestic expenditure, that's just not on.
Respect her contribution- bluntly put, if she wasn't at home with the kids you wouldn't be able to run your business. If you had to do half the school runs, take days off for sick kids, you wouldn't be able to run your business. If she'd been hit by a bus and you'd had to hire a nanny and a housekeeper, how much would that cost? Note also two people, nanny and housekeeper because no one would do all that work as one person
Raising tiny ones is tough. Respect her contribution.
Respect her. Listen to what she's saying, rally listen. Not drawing up a list of shit to fix, listen to how you are making her fell
If the way she's doing a chore pisses you off, either zip your lip or do it yourself. Stop nitpicking.
Stop forcing physical affection on her at 1am. If you're pestering for sex. Stop that too.
Stop going on about irrelevant shit. The moss is irrelevant shit. Diet Coke is irrelevant. The whirly is irrelevant. Your wife walking out with three tiny kids is not irrelevant.
And finally - your posts made me feel suffocated just reading them. Ask yourself and be brutally honest - are you controlling? Making her account for getting new essential domestic stuff, nitpicking about the moss, three kids in under four years, a 'cuddle' at 1am... It's all little things that make me feel your wife has no bodily, sexual or financial autonomy. Then you're on mumsnet - why?

You are in big danger of losing her. When you have to have the kids a few nights a week and every other weekend, you'll have to take on a significant amount of domestic shit. And pay a significant amount of maintenance- perhaps you might start to appreciate her contribution then.

There's a book called 'wifework'
I suggest you read it.

roundaboutthetown · 07/06/2016 05:20

Oh dear, OP, you are already ruining the dishwasher for her - it will just be another thing for you to moan about, because she fails to pre-rinse everything and you'll go on and on about how she will clog it up and break it... When someone is feeling exhausted, stressed and suffocated by their mundane, endless and seemingly inescapable responsibilities, the last thing they need is someone whining about rinsing the dishes before they stack the dishwasher, or how there might be a bit less moss on the drive if only the rain and shade from the house were causing it (even though half the house was black with the stuff when you moved in... Did the previous owners throw water at their house every day???).

You need to realise that you are not just practical and careful, you are also anal, which is hugely unhelpful when your wife is not waving, but drowning.

HapShawl · 07/06/2016 06:06

Completely agree about the stupid idea of rationality/logic vs irrationality/emotion

I see few things more irrational than a man refusing to go to counselling which might save his marriage. it indicates that he doesn't want to save his marriage, he wants to win it

BertieBotts · 07/06/2016 06:35

The difference is none of the things you've stated as her 'demands' sound unreasonable apart from possibly the computer time. She's broadly asking for things that she needs. You are on the other hand asking for things that you want. A lot of them, by the sounds of things.

You don't need to do all that stuff with a dishwasher. Scrape plates, yes. That you would for washing up anyway. Rinsing no. Drying, just let it sit for 20 mins after it's done to let the steam evaporate. It's supposed to be labour saving! You have to collect vstuff from around the house and put it away with hand washing too.

KittyKrap · 07/06/2016 07:18

Roundabout. Good thinking, they'd be too much emphasis on scraping then rinsing then stacking properly. The dishwasher could be the final straw!

Baconyum · 07/06/2016 07:24

Not rtft (it's almost as long as the op!)

YOU HAVE 3 KIDS AND SHE IS DROWNING.

Posting on mn knowing your wife uses - bullying tactic!

'It's usually a way of demonstrating to her that she isn't allowed any privacy and that she needs to be publicly shamed so she learns her place.'

'It's not an attempt to shame her or some hope she reads this - it really isn't - I don't mind either way if she does or does not' if that were true there are THOUSANDS of other forum you could have posted on - not buying that pig in a poke!

'Hmm... Are you one of those who thinks helping is embarking on a long winded DIY project which you actually quite enjoy but isn't actually helpful (and coincidentally gets you out of the house.?)' yep could believe that.

'You have three children under the age of 4yrs and you are surprised that they generate a lot of laundry?' I've only one she's now a teen and I'm still doing loads! The baby alone will be generating 1-2 loads (poonamis, muslins, towels, bedding, drooling etc)

'but 3 young children don't generate 24kgs of washing in a day' when was the last time YOU did the full day with all 3 kids AND the housework??

'And it was his money, not mine'

oops missed the op pulling this crap! Op your wife may not be wohm but she is still contributing. And she's doing more hours than you. If you had looked through mn you'd see it pointed out frequently that sahm save the family a fortune in childcare (esp 3 under 4 that you BOTH chose to have not just her).

Also the 'helping' with the kids NO PARENTING YOUR (joint) KIDS!

'As for the economics of being a SAHM, believe me I know' not how you're coming across

'.does she have her own money so she doesn't have to ask you for any?' Excellent question!

'If you aren't interested in counselling, what exactly are you proposing to do to help get things back on track?' Doing nothing but nagging will solve nothing!

' As for this being nasty to post on the forum she frequents, well she's posted plenty about me before so I don't feel so bad about that.' You seriously don't get that it's like her going to another room to get some space during an argument and you just following her and continuing to rant at her?!!!

'I can see you now, shakily perched on the edge of the armchair, mad eyed and finger hovering, desperately refreshing the thread to check if DW has responded' ohhhh yes!!

If the wife in this story IS reading.

Stay with your Mum and Dad. Any man who follows you onto a forum for a passive aggressive dig must be hell to live with.

'I'd be very interested to hear your wife's point of view.' Me too!

IF she considers counselling you need to ACTIVELY LISTEN! And be bloody grateful!

WellErrr · 07/06/2016 07:27

She probably deeply resents that I get to still be a professional whilst she is wiping noses or arses or spilling Diet Coke all over the place, much in the same way I'd rather play with the children

You see what you did there, dropping in the Diet Coke reference again? Another petty little dig when you're supposed to be trying to be understanding.

I for one can see right through your wide-eyed innocent 'so does anyone have any idea how I can phrase/do this better' etc.

You don't believe ONE BIT that you are in the wrong, even slightly.

Thing is (and you don't seem to have grasped this) - YOUR WIFE HAS LEFT YOU.
It's happened.

Despite you being this amazing reasonable and rational person, who does all the washing up, bottles, night wakings, DIY, gives her lie ins etc - SHE HAS LEFT YOU.
For the second time.

You might want to think about that.

PacificDogwod · 07/06/2016 07:28

a man refusing to go to counselling which might save his marriage. it indicates that he doesn't want to save his marriage, he wants to win it

Yy to that: you want to be right more than you want to save your relationship with your wife.
It's a choice and the choice is yours.

kolapop · 07/06/2016 07:51

This thread is hilarious, hopefully the op's wife is reading and can be confident that she has made the right decision.

GinIsIn · 07/06/2016 08:00

Does anyone else really fancy a Diet Coke now....?

OP I think you have to stop rewarding yourself for being logical and practical - to her, it's domineering and compulsive. You seem very proud to have spent hours researching before pointedly presenting her with the white goods of your choice (incidentally if you have to empty the drier manually how good can your choices be?!), but what she wanted was for you to ASK HER WHAT SHE WANTED.

Also, you say you don't care if she reads this so its fine for you to post it on MN. IT'S NOT ABOUT IF YOU CARE- THIS IS HER THING, SHE WILL CARE.

If you were a member of, I don't know - say a chess club- and she rocked up to your chess match and started bemoaning all the things you do wrong, that would not be ok. What you have done here isn't ok either.

12 pages in and you are still telling us about the speed of the spin cycle and the fucking Diet Coke. YOUR WIFE HAS LEFT YOU. It's not about Diet Coke, it's about your constant failure to ask her what she wants, not to just tell her how you would do things!

HowBadIsThisPlease · 07/06/2016 08:01

That dishwasher nonsense is making me see red. No way is it not easier to have a dishwasher. Absolutely no way. And if you think it is, you are wrong, AND you are lecturing her on stuff she knows about and you don't.

Do you think you could start listening? Do you think it is possible for you?

When you have tiny ones (I only had 2 and I was broken) you are RULED by laundry and washing up. You just don't get this and you are adopting a superior, meddling, obstructive and fundamentally stupid attitude to the tools of her trade.

When you have tiny ones, a SAHM is never off duty and you are physically forced to take a more relaxed pace, and bring n as much adult social contact as you can, or you are fucked. There is no flow, n job satisfaction of challenging tasks with beginnings middles and ends, and no down time. Chatting on the phone is all that is keeping her sane. She can't talk to you, clearly.

I am on the other side. Not as a SAHM but as a woman who lived with a man who always knew better but never did what I did.

ArmfulOfRoses · 07/06/2016 08:01

Do you love your wife op?

I've rtft but I can't see that you've mentioned it anywhere.

EarthboundMisfit · 07/06/2016 08:09

I actually sent my own long suffering DH to the shop for Diet Coke while reading this. I did finish and recycle it, but failed to properly crush the can.

SmallLegsOrSmallEggs · 07/06/2016 08:11

The dushwasher is easier because you can put the dishes in it out of the way. So it will help.

I get what you are saying OP, we are telling you to do this for her do that for her and you are wondering if you are going to do all the bending and she does all the taking.

Thing is OP, you cannot change anyone else, only yourself. She may appreciate if you get these things done or she may just find more things.

You'll have to decide how much effort you want to make. But if you do do it, do it with good grace and don't be arsey about it.

Then go to the counselling and that way she might actually get to hear that you do appreciate her, do accept that kids are knackering but that you are also feeling underappreciated. And then you can work out if you actually like each other rnough for this to be worth it.

CaroleService · 07/06/2016 08:41

I think you work hard, OP, and like all of us who work hard, you want to see a result from your work; something concrete - like a smarter home , better downtime. But month to month you see things getting no further forward - you put in a drier, but then you need to find a dishwasher; you scrub up the moss one month, the next month it's back.

I bet your wife used to enjoy seeing a 'result' as well, in the days before children.

Now imagine a working day where anything you achieve is undone almost immediately . You sweep the breakfast crumbs up? An hour later there are more crumbs. You tidy the lego? Half an hour later, there's Brio all over the floor. You change a nappy? Guess what ...

You finish feeding them all, wash up the breakfast things, wipe the surfaces, sweep that f floor ... and it's time to make lunch and start the whole cycle again.

You dress your baby in the t-shirt you only washed yesterday and then - bingo - it's covered in mashed banana. Back into the wash.

Not so much groundhog day as groundhog hour. And all the days and all the hours are identical: just a Mobius strip with no discernible end or progress.

I can tell you from experience that you do lose heart, in those circumstances. It's depressing. There is literally never a time when you can stand back and feel 'Yup, done that'. You give up trying to get on top of things; you just try not to be buried underneath them.

So that's your wife's working environment. You feel she's undoing the progress you make - or at least, not respecting it. But she must feel that EVERYONE AROUND HER is undoing any progress she makes - and n-oone respects what she's done, or even knows she's done it, because it's immediately invisible.

iremembericod · 07/06/2016 08:47

I have genuinely never met anyone who weighs their washing

Candlefairy101 · 07/06/2016 08:59

I've just done the school run and whizzed back because I am fuming with how you talk about your wife.

I had a boss like you, he was soooo petty about things you could feel yourself doing things just to piss him off because nothing was going to be right anyway.

You sound cheap! If your wife ASKS YOU for a new appliance (she shouldn't have to ask!) you spend ages huffing and trying to find the best product for the cheapest price, most people do this but not to the extent you do it Angry

I could go on but my blood pressure is boiling simply because I've met your type

MiffleTheIntrovert · 07/06/2016 09:02

You don't love your wife. Sorry but you don't. If you did you would never ever write about her like this, especially on a forum she frequents for support. Your posts are full of the following tones towards her and none of them spell love:

Overbearing
Resentful
Constantly critical
Contemptuous
Sneering
Bullying
Dogmatic
Bitter
Condescending...shall I go on?

Your poor wife. My sympathies are entirely with her and I hope she has plenty of support on here as she starts her new life without you.

Please do seek some counselling so you don't damage your DC any further. You need to wake up. As PP said, she has already left you. The damage is done.

nousernames · 07/06/2016 09:05

Ah I've just seen your post op about her leaving you once already because of "something trivial" and I think I can shed some light on that. It probably wasn't trivial to her- that's why she left. It was so important to her that she packed up the kids and went: it's so trivial to you that you can't even remember the reason. And that's the importance you put on your wife's feelings.

From my own perspective dh and I went through a very bad patch last year and one thing that really rankled was him constantly leaving crap everywhere. We both work outside of the home but if he did a job inside the home you could guarantee that it would just make extra work for me somewhere. Every drink he had the cup would be left on the floor etc etc. When I finally snapped he was convinced I was threatening divorce because he left one spoon on the bookshelf. It wasn't it was because I was sick of asking politely, of explaining that it made me feel like the hired help that it seemed like he was far too busy to do something so boring as pick his own mess up but i could do it. It explained all of this time and time again but he hadn't listened. It nearly broke us.

Just because something is trivial to you it doesn't mean it's trivial for everyone.

situatedknowledge · 07/06/2016 09:09

Lost me at "help with the children". I do hope the DW stays at her parents.

Baconyum · 07/06/2016 09:17

Nousernames post reminded me - isn't there a blog article somewhere BY THE EX HUSBAND who realised too late that

Every cup left on the side and not put in dishwasher was a 'fuck you' to his wife? Can't find link perhaps someone else more familiar can ?

EarthboundMisfit · 07/06/2016 09:29

I've just weighed my washing. 10kg in a 7kg machine.

NeverEverAnythingEver · 07/06/2016 09:29

mustbethistalltoride.com/2016/01/14/she-divorced-me-because-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink/ Not quite this one, but similar.

NeverEverAnythingEver · 07/06/2016 09:30

How do you weigh your washing?