When red flags aren't really red

[Hiphopopotamus]

Hi everyone. Been reading a lot on here about red flags and abusive relationships. I was wondering if anyone else was in the same position as me - where things taken out of context look bad, but are actually part of a good relationship. I just find it a bit worrying when sometimes these types of things come up, and everyone automatically assumes that the relationship is awful.

Contact - my DP expects me to stay in contact with him unless I've told him I'm going to be busy. He has no issue if I genuinely can't talk but he will worry if I don't respond within the hour if I haven't told him I'll be busy.

He tells me what I can and can't wear - or rather, he tells me what he'd prefer. He doesn't like me wearing anything revealing in public so out of respect for him, I don't.

There are quite a few more things like this, but hopefully you get the general gist. Our relationship is loving, kind and supportive, despite some things that could easily be picked up as being 'red flags'. Can anyone else identity with this.

Sorry all those questions should have been in bold.

OP.

When you say 'sorry' in your last post do you mean you wish you hadn't posted or that you're sorry because you think you've caused upset?

If it's the latter I am even more worried for you.

People are jumping up and down here not because they're mad but because they don't want you to go through what they went through - myself included.

And can I just say:

Please please please do not have children with this man until you've tested him and gauged his reactions.

Pregnancy/birth of a child is often when the abuse suddenly ramps up because it's even harder for you to keep your independence.

There are quite a few more things like this, but hopefully you get the general gist. Our relationship is loving, kind and supportive, despite some things that could easily be picked up as being 'red flags'.

The problem is that many abusive relationships start like this. Many people have been in your position and thought it was all OK when it really isn't.

It's not normal to asking a partner to "not wear make up" or "do hair in a certain way". It's fine to express a preference (depending on how it is done). But it's not good to be trying to control someone - and as a PP said, the fact that you do it too doesn't make it OK.

It's fine now because you are happy to go along with what he wants - you say "out of respect for him". What if what you want and what he wants don't align so easily? What happens then?

No one walks into an abusive relationship that is abusive from day one. If the first time you met a man, he punched you or told you you were fat and ugly, you'd just walk off. Anyone would. Abusive relationships develop over time , it's a slow creep.

And that is why people do refer to red flags - because they are little warning signs that you may not see - a little red flag fluttering unnoticed. Then another one. Then two more. Until one day you wake up in a sea of red flags and you can't see the sky.

^

I agree that red flags are only identified as such in hindsight for many people, myself included. In my case, my dad is abusive to my mum and she in turn is a man pleaser so I didn't recognise the red flags when they were waving in my face. I and eventually my DC have paid the price. I cannot describe how much it hurts to know you have selected an abuser to father your DC and they are then exposed to that, destined to repeat the pattern. As pp have said, please do not have DC with this man until you are certain that he is not abusive.

I think the fact that much of this 'control' is focused on appearance is a red flag in itself. What difference does it make if you're wearing nipple tassels and an edible thong or a burka out in public? What you wear does not dictate the likelihood of cheating. If he can't trust you to be around other people, including men, then you have no basis for a relationship anyway. Do you trust each other? If you do, then why the need to control?

I'm sorry I've brought up bad memories for posters here. That wasn't my intention and I'm really sorry. I know it sounds pathetic but my relationship really is different. It's not abusive. I promise. I'm really ok. This is the man I love and the man I want to marry. We've talked about marriage and kids and we're totally on the same page with it. Our relationship is good.

I am happy your relationship is good OP. After all if you have discussed marriage and children it must be great. Obviously that doesn't happen in the early stages of a controlling relationship.

Oh wait, yes it does.

Have you had your first proper disagreement yet? Don't marry until you do.

Please don't be sorry. As I've said before if it's not relevant to you then it might help others.
Others aren't upset by your post. They just want to stop you and others making the same mistakes. They would have sworn they had a good loving relationship in the beginning too.

How long have you been together? It's incredibly rare to agree on EVERYTHING major.

Have you had a major disagreement about anything?

people aren't upset about the bad memories, OP, they are saying they have been where you are now, thinking what you think....please, listen carefully to them and don't get further entangled with this man, of course abusers don't start abusing straight away, if they did everyone would run a mile straight away
find out about his previous relationships, also about the family he grew up in
do as people suggest and see what happens if you DON'T respond to texts for a few hours...or even a day...

You haven't answered the key question people have asked. What happens if you don't do what he says? (And if you don't know, why haven't you ever done so?)

I'm sorry I've brought up bad memories for posters here. That wasn't my intention and I'm really sorry
You are being too apologetic where there's no need. Are you like this with him too?
Do you apologise and seek his approval for everything?

OP, what would happen if you did wear something your partner didn't want you to wear? What if you said to him, out of respect for ME you should let me wear the skirt/top/whatever?

Your answer to that would be your answer as to whether it's a true red flag or not.

For me a healthy relationship is about doing things for the other person out of wanting to, but not being obliged to.

Yes George, she doesn't know because she's always done what he says

Hiphoputamus, I don't normally write on here and won't come check up on this as I hardly get the time but I want you to read a different story.
I had alot of red flags when I was about to marry DH. I even thought he was a possessive prick but for various reasons I went ahead with the marriage.
Anyway, 5 years and 2 kids later, I'm really happy with him.
Once he was reassured that I wouldn't cheat, he was fine.
Now I tease him all the time about pulling men, His colleagues tell him they think I'm fit and he knows I get flattered that I still can get comments like that.
We have a joint account but I also have my own account with money in it to survive alone for a few months and he knows it.
I don't know about your man. Only you do.
Not all relationships are black and white and not all men are machines with the same outcome.

OP I remember posting on here something I thought was pretty innocuous relating to my then DH's behaviour towards me. I was looking for advice to help me address the matter but instead people warned me there were red flags and advised me to consider ending the relationship. I hadn't really read much of the Relationships board at the time so I really wasn't expecting that sort of response and I was shocked and confused. I fought his corner a bit on the thread because people had got entirely the wrong idea but it didn't make any difference so I left the thread and never started another in Relationships until years later when I posted asking for the checklist of what to take with you when you flee your home with your baby and the clothes you're standing up in while your violent husband who monitors all your movements on his home CCTV system is out. At the time of my first thread I wasn't ready to hear it but it planted the seed of doubt, or perhaps it watered it because I think it was already there - I just wish I'd heeded it a bit sooner before so much damage was done. Take what you want from this thread OP. Dismiss us as neurotic abuse survivors if it suits your narrative but don't be complacent about your safety and completely rule out the risk that the things you describe really are red flags of abusive tendencies - because at this stage of your relationship you could exit much more easily and safely if you have to.

Now I tease him all the time about pulling men, His colleagues tell him they think I'm fit and he knows I get flattered that I still can get comments like that

I am not sure this is in any way part of a healthy relationship.

Hiphop

re your comment:-
"I have a relationship that works with the person I love. He's never ever hit me. How can it be wrong".

What else does he do hiphop?. This may well be the tip of a bloody great iceberg.

Abuse is not just physical in nature. They do not have to only hit you to hurt you. Abuse is about power and control; he has that over you.

What do you know about this man in terms of his own background?. I would look very closely at both his parents, this need to control others has likely come from one of them. Its not unlearnt either.

I was also wondering what you learnt about relationships when you were growing up. Your boundaries seem very askew (this overt need to be respectful to him along with the apologising) and I think he targeted you as well. He saw something he could and has exploited to his own ends.

I am not sure this is in any way part of a healthy relationship.

Oh Christ. It wouldn't be for me personally, but it sounds absolutely fine.

Sometimes I wonder if all these mumsneters who say it's abusive have 100% their way in the relationship without comprise really exist. If so I think maybe it's a little selfish to do things when they know their partner doesn't like it.

If your partner said can you stay in tonight as i feel lonely and want company, would you say no?

If your partner said can you not use nail varnish as it makes me feel sick with the smell in the house, would you continue to do it?

I think screaming abuse at the slightest thing is completely over the top. Yes there will be abusive relationships but many are just about comprimise and respect for the other persons wishes.

OP I rarely read or post on these boards as am in the lucky position of not needing too. However, having seen a friend go through an EA relationship, I thought I would tell you how my relationship works regarding clothes & contact.
Contact - I'm usually home from work by 7pm. Last Friday, I went out for a couple of drinks so knew I'd be an hour late. I didn't bother contacting DH to tell him as I sometimes do this or get delayed by trains etc so he wouldn't worry. When we decided to go out for dinner, I did call him as I knew I wouldn't be home before 9.30pm which was quite a bit later than usual. I didn't ask his permission or anything, just told him I was going out for dinner & would be home about 9.30. I next called him at 10.45 to say I was on the train home and would be home about 11.30/midnight. I didn't need to explain or apologise or anything. It was purely the provision of information so he didn't begin to worry about me having been in an accident or anything.
Clothes - DH hates flowery clothes. I didn't realise this for the first couple of years as he didn't mention it. His only comments were things like "that looks good" or "those are more flattering". When I realised he didn't like flowery clothes, I also realised about 75% of my tops and all of my dresses had flowers on them. I thought that that was a bit ridiculous so began to buy other patterns -stars, spots, stripes etc. It turns out DH doesn't like patterns but, tough, I do so that is what I wear. If I'm choosing what to wear for a meal out with him and am deciding between two outfits, I may opt for the plainer one...but I may not.

My love, you're colour blind... Those flags ain't green..

FIS2016

There is a massive difference between the examples you have given and the OP's examples.

Your examples have nothing to do with power and control. Your examples have nothing to do with seeing a partner as a possession instead of an individual in their own right.

FIS2016
Your post is a misrepresentation of the replies to OP and other women in EA relationships.

Of course we all compromise. Men do too (the good ones).
But some compromises end up being one sided and tend to come about by sulks, pestering and screaming. When compromises don't come about by free choice of those making them, then it's abuse.

Even with nail varnish, for example, I might choose to put it on when he wouldn't be in or at a nail salon. If he still complained about it, and insisted I didn't wear it and sulked and caused rows about it, it would be abusive.

See the difference?

Thankfully most people on MN can spot the differences.
OP, you too, because when you read red flag posts you realised they were also about your relationship. Your reaction seems to me mostly of denial, but I think you just need to process it in your head.