All dating gurus say don't chase a man, let him chase you. But there's a flaw in that plan

[Chatarunga]

.......nobody has ever approached me. No that's not quite true. Last year, a man 7 years younger than I am asked me out. I'll be told off for being a snob here but he was between jobs (and had been for a while) and he was a granddad at 37. On the plus side, he went every where on his bike so he wasn't completely unfit. So, to be 'open' I went for a coffee with him and he talked absolute shite for an hour. And that is it. In nearly a decade. I have had a few v short flings with people I met on courses or through a friend, but that is it. So if I sat around waiting for somebody to approach me a decade could pass.
Do you ask men out? Are you brave enough? How do you even know if they're single?
I can't wait another decade for another passing unemployed granddad on a bicycle to ask me out! I need to take control of my love life.

No, never ever ask him out. If he doesn't ask, then it's his loss. All you need to do is be obviously available to be asked.

You do the approaching (or at least, the eye contact). You do not do the asking out.

Out of interest, how do I navigate the dating world? I've become disabled since I last dated, and have a child, so I genuinely won't be up for having sex within the first few weeks and doing the anxious waiting game to see if I passed muster.

My body ain't what it was and in fact is so different (uglier & alot fatter) I would / will be very very worried about exposing myself to anyone who didn't care about me as me first. Someone could be very very cruel about my body if they wanted to be.

Or maybe I'd feel different, braver (riskier?) if I fancied the pants off someone?

Tbh I have no idea if my body will even let me have sex in very boring positions with great frequency, let alone the bedroom gymnastics and adventurousness I used to go through before ...

How does someone like me ever find anyone?

I guess I should give tinder a go.
Physical counts. Somebody's personality could well win me over after initially feeling nothing. But when you're in good nick, not just ''for your age'' but fitter than kids half your age, with all your own hair and teeth and a good eye for flattering clothes, it can be massively time-wasting to have messsages in your inbox from men 15 years older. So the straightforward reciprocity of tinder is something that would save a lot of time and frustration. I must psyche myself up.
Tonight I'll listen to an 8 hour confidence sleep hypnosis thing. I had a great night's sleep last night, and i woke up as he said ''you are waking up now'' and I heard him count down. It woke me up so beautifully. I could have got out of bed, ten seconds after being in a deep sleep. So it felt.

Kiwiknits, I struggle there. My mother raised me to believe that it was absolutely shameful to express any sort of attraction for the obvious sex. In my eyes, there was no greater humiliation than to express an interest in the opposite sex and to then be turned down. That would have been a humiliation that was brought down on yourself out of lust. Obviously the word 'lust' was never said aloud. Somehow I was expected to go from being a virgin to walking down the aisle with mr wonderful. Who'd been to university, who was on the rowing team, or maybe I met him debating :-p
anyway, still trying to overcome childhood hard-wiring that flirting is shameless and wanton and drawing attention to yourself.

"What is objectively attractive though? Everyone is attracted to their own type whatever that may be. "

No, objectively attractive does it exist, though it may vary between cultures and times. It's what most people find most attractive. I suppose you could also call it 'conventionally attractive'.

" I'd really love to check out that new bar in town, you know the one on the corner of ..."

That's much more of a hint, that's actually asking someone out isn't it.

"* I'm thinking about going for a walk in the weekend but I need someone to go with as my usual walking buddy is away"

That's definitely asking someone out!

I could never ask a man out, the most I could ever do would be to say a group of us were going somewhere and does he want to come along.

I don't think I do the first things on the flirting list above. They seem very teenagy. More casual chatting in a friendly way with lots of smiling and eye contact. I'm not good at "banter" so tend to ask a few questions about him, but not in a way to make it sound like an interrogation and with space for him to reply or make it obvious if he isn't interested. Depends on the context though really. Agree with discussing coffee shops/ pubs restaurants you fancy going to.
re Miscellaneous is there any exercise/ light weights/ floor toning exercises you can do with your disability? I find if I'm happy with my body I'm more confident so would look at cutting down the portions and finding some exercise you can do to tone things up a bit. Also remember it's not just him assessing you, you are also assessing him to see if he passes. You have as much power in the dating game as he does.

no, never ask him out

What a depressing attitude.

I've been watching this with interest as I am a larger newly-single over 50 person. When STBX first expressed unhappiness in the relationship I obsessively read books and watched videos and visited websites for some clue over what to do to make it better. When we first got together there was quite bit of to-ing and fro-ing and I became very aware that he was all about the chase. However at one point I called a stop to the "game" and he decided he did really want to be with me. We agreed no more games of the "treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen" variety. I am very very keen on honesty and openness. He convinced himself, I'm sure, that he could live with this. So we married, and almost immediately, like a tiny brown spot on an apple, his dissatisfaction in not feeling like he had to chase me began. 18 years down the line and I discover that he has been wooing another woman, using all the same lines/romantic actions he used on me.

The thing is, it was nice to be chased, to feel attractive and wanted. I suppose it fed into my terrible insecurity about my looks but I felt really safe, for the first time in my life. For about three months - then very gradually I started to notice things that made me feel insecure in his love and attention. This was by no means a horrible relationship from start to finish, but I do wonder - did my desire to be chased, courted, all of that - did it mean that I was inevitably going to end up with a man who would eventually inevitably find someone else to be a hero to?

I would dearly love, by the way, to feel that I have a chance at another kind of relationship. Maybe I would even ask a man out. But as I say, I am over 50, not-great body, lived-in face, and in the past 18 months (let alone the past 18 years) I've never had a flicker of interest in another man, and none have shown interest in me either. I guess I could take some of the advice on this thread and go out where I might meet men, but there just seems to be a part of me that prevents myself being interested. Might be low self esteem but I don't know. I don't think I'm ready but I suppose I am also questioning whether a man who would pursue me would be pursuing someone else later. Because it was about the pursuing rather than about me.

I loved littleunderdog's story and I relate a bit to Miscellaneous' post.

hare a very interesting post, I agree that some people are interested in the chase most of all, and it's so good if there is a balance, i.e. both take initiative in turn. Your story is a good lesson and a warning not to blindly follow the rules (or 'The Rules' ha)!

I think if someone is interested in the chase most of all then I'd be better finding out early to avoid wasting my time so if they're put off by my keenness it's a good thing. I suspect internet dating has more blokes who like chasing than the general population.

Yes I relate to yours rather hareinthemoon (love your name by the way).

2Rebecca at the moment any exercise causes problems, but I'm starting physio soon so have hopes.
I would lose weight before thinking about dating, and being too fat really upsets me so I'd need substantial renovations!

But the trouble is I have scars too, awful ugly marks all across my torso. Not exactly seductive.

I once heard a man on a bus have a very long and loud call to his mate following a night of sex with someone.

It really stayed with me:

He'd been seeing someone for a few dates and that last night was The Night they had sex and he was utterly horrified and revolted by what he found under her clothes . She had a fold where her csection scar was and the skin was baggy around that area and stretch marks etc. He said it looked like an apron hanging down, though I suspect that was an exaggeration. He wasn't expecting her to look like that and his shock was accompanied by a sense that he'd been 'cheated' as she wore a tummy tucker in-er thing and a strongly underwired bra to hold up her 'saggy' breasts.

The worst thing was that he wasn't bragging or making it into a cruel story to laugh at her. He was rather upset and relieved to have escaped from a really awkward situation. Marveling about how all these horrible flaws could be hidden and disguised when dressed. He said he hadn't let on how turned off he was and that she thought it had all gone well, lots of cuddles and smooching all night and a leisurely breakfast out, promises to call and plans to see her again etc. but really he did all that as he felt he should, to be 'polite', or to avoid a scene, and was breathing a sigh of relief to have escaped. No intention of ever calling or seeing her again.

It's really stayed with me and I would be terrified that would happen to me.

Oh my god Miscellaneous...

That is indeed my worst nightmare about dating.

Gah!!!

Miscellaneous, that sounds awful but he sounds like he hardly knew her, and she clearly over-estimated him, given that he was so traumatised by a caesarian scar that he needed to 'let it out' to a friend, on the phone, in public....... Try to imagine that happening if two people had got to know each other much better and had enough loyalty to each other not to discuss each other's bodies to their friends, never mind out loud on the phone on a train!! It's harder to imagine now.

That sounds awful but I do think looking like yourself is important, which is why I don't get people who have online dating pictures of themselves when younger and fitter as your first impression on meeting them is going to be disappointment.

This is true Chit.

I hope the woman in question thought the young(ish) man was a slimey git and perhaps she was sitting with a friend saying 'thank god he went it was sooo awkward'.

The thing was when I heard him I still had a pretty good body, and even then it struck horror into my heart! Obviously if have said I didn't have a good body, but I took all the good things for granted and magnified the flaws even though if you'd have forced me to face it, I would have said my body wasn't perfect but not terrible. Actually now I'm thinking about it, it's less about beauty and more that I was a specific body type so if I knew a man fancied my type clothed, he'd fancy my body unclothed also! Very straight forwards, leaving the complicated stuff for things like chemistry, sexual likes/ dislikes etc.

But now, I don't conform to a simple body type that someone would fancy... Eg tall, skinny, no boobs but good legs. With oddly, out of typology big hips for some reason which I told myself was womanly/ feminine(!). So someone who loved larger breasts or shorter women just wouldn't go for me in the first place. Oh and my 'schtick' was being very flexible and err, active (gymnastic) in bed.

Sorry it all sounds so mechanical when broken down like this, or like painting with numbers! But one thing that has changed is that there was a level of screening out before even speaking to someone which gave me a sense of basic confidence he wasn't going to throw up upon undressing!

As my body has got subjectively and objectively a lot worse than my previous self, as well as being a different type now, which is hard to know quite how to feel at home in it, and sexy, let alone confident enough to have to prewarn someone before the grand unveiling. So, fat, big, slightly lopsided boobs, err, definite curves (!). Long legs but then all the bad stuff too... I guess I think I'm a worse version of a 'voluptuous' type. Very much not bendy and ny necessity would have to be more slow and gentle than boinging around the bedroom!

Ugh, imagine standing / sitting/ lying and waiting for the first reaction - a not sexy judgement of horror, lies or acceptance... And I'm afraid it would be just accepting those bits at best, not ever fancying (unless a certain kind of fetishist which would Really Freak Me Out!).

Anyway, sorry I've moved a loooong way from who makes the first move! Been super helpful to think it through with people though so thanks lots!

So I've lost my 'thing' as well as my figure, damn it! I need a need way to be sexy... Any ideas?!

Ive discovered that when men ask "how old is your photo?" & "how much weight have you put on since those photos" are projecting their own shifty guilt at their misrepresentation

Height is another really annoying thing that men lie about online.

It really irritates me as I'm tall, so when they stick on another 4-6 inches it really really shows the lie!

As I tower over a man who claims to be 6 inches taller than me it rather makes first meetings awkward as they flounder for an explanation of making such a massive error in knowing their own height. It's cringey and reveals their inadequacies! Inadequacies in attitude rather than inches ... If you have a thing about your height, go for shorter women ffs!
Why on earth go for a woman who will clearly tower him whilst he glares and grimbles about being 'outed'!

I'm only 5'2 and it annoys me that men lie about their height too! I have tried doing searches for shorter men but apparently there aren't any. There is no man on line under 5'10" hmm

I went on a date with a man who was only about my height! I think he'd said he was 5'8". I can't remember but I was astonished when he walked in. The extent of the lie! I should have told him I was 25

Chit that is interesting about the dating sites.

Miscellaneous I relate really strongly. I was never gorgeous but I certainly was sexy and I was at home in my body. Pregnancy gave me comedy breasts which never went away and I became larger, and lost the whole sense of where my attractiveness lay. I have yet to find it again but I do notice if I see a woman who looks gorgeous it is never one type. There are all kinds of gorgeous women out there of all different types. Some of the women I think are gorgeous in no way fit stereotypes of gorgeousness. I love to celebrate the beauty of women and I hope to find a way of seeing it in myself some day, once I pick up the pieces of my self esteem. I let it get tattered by by experiences but I think it is the only thing I can work on now. I wonder if you have the same thing of living in your head a bit and overthinking your body letting you down as I do! Recently I've been trying to think of ways for my body to experience pleasure and I think that takes a little of the pressure away from thinking your body has to be able to look or move a certain way for someone else's pleasure.

Height is another really annoying thing that men lie about online.

I bet that for every man that lies about his height there is a women lying about her age or weight. Can't see the point of men or women bullshitting on their profiles, it's not exactly something you can keep a secret for long and from the off you have shown yourself to be a bit untrustworthy.

You don't have to put your weight!
In theory I agree, not a fan of bullshitting, but having a run of OLD under my belt now, I wonder if people see the age 45 and just assume that that is code for 50. I don't know, do you have to lie to show up in the searches of the men you'd date! I do think there's a lot of time wasting going on. I've my settings set so that men older than 52 can't message me, but perhaps if they think I'm lying about my age, they are messaging 35 year olds, who wouldn't reply. There are about a thousand messages for every real life meet up I think. Good old fashioned agencies would prevent the lies!

Also, although I haven't YET, I'm kind of coming around to accepting that I am going to have to lie about my age if I want to have success OLD.

Only because men say 5 years older than I am, and that's still oldER, those men are still fifty years old, still five years older than I am, they seem to go on line expecting to date a 35 year old. I would love to know do they get any replies? what happens? the population is ageing. There aren't enough 35 year olds to go around.

I just can't quite believe how hard it is. It should be MUCH easier.

You don't have to put your exact weight but you are asked to describe your body type (athletic, slender, curvy etc). Like you I am a veteran of OLD and thought the phrase curvy was seriously abused (along with age). I had a few dates who confessed on a second or third date that there were 4 or 5 years older then their profile suggested, that just pissed me off. I agree with the timewasting, I got the impression there were quite a few people bored at work who just enjoyed some flirty banter and a more cynical part of me felt there was a sizeable minority who equally enjoyed a free meal at a nice restaurant. But, as I am sure you did you soon learn strategies to weed out the timeswasters and bullshitters, once I had figured that out the dates I had improved immeasurably and even if there was no chemistry so to speak on a date the evening was still very enjoyable and often resulted in friendship if not romance.