All dating gurus say don't chase a man, let him chase you. But there's a flaw in that plan

[Chatarunga]

.......nobody has ever approached me. No that's not quite true. Last year, a man 7 years younger than I am asked me out. I'll be told off for being a snob here but he was between jobs (and had been for a while) and he was a granddad at 37. On the plus side, he went every where on his bike so he wasn't completely unfit. So, to be 'open' I went for a coffee with him and he talked absolute shite for an hour. And that is it. In nearly a decade. I have had a few v short flings with people I met on courses or through a friend, but that is it. So if I sat around waiting for somebody to approach me a decade could pass.
Do you ask men out? Are you brave enough? How do you even know if they're single?
I can't wait another decade for another passing unemployed granddad on a bicycle to ask me out! I need to take control of my love life.

[Chatarunga]

Yes, I think that's true. You ask a man out and he's briefly pleased, but that flattery makes him wonder well if she liked me enough to ask me out, somebody better than her might have me. I know what you mean, I hate the passivity of being female but the last time I told a man I liked him, it seemed to fan the flames for a while and then he responded by taking a big step back and looking over my shoulder. So I walked away from him then.

So I think the 'big clue' is the way to go.

[OrangesandLemonsNow]

I think it is unwise to put yourself out there like that to the extent of asking a man out too. Indicate interest, yes, but that's all you should be doing.

So in your book you are more likely to be attacked by a man if you do the asking. Do you have any research or statistics to back this up?

[thedogdaysareover]

No l don't. Al, I have is my own experience and it's valid for me. I am not saying you are or are not more at risk by doing the asking, just that by doing the asking you are leaving yourself wide open to players. By players I mean people who think she's into me enough to ask me out, I will groom her for a bit, make her think I'm in a relationship while I'm screwing other people, possibly be abusive to her, possibly make her pregnant because he doesn't care about her enough not to, and the fuq off. Seen it happen a lot.

If a man likes me enough he will ask me out. End of. Men like to do the choosing and the asking, if that makes me sound like I'm from the 1950's then so be it, I'm pretty open minded but on this I won't budge. I found by feeling pressured to do the asking by feeling I was not a liberated woman unless I did, I was controlling and directing the natural course of things, women and men are different. Very different.

[Chatarunga]

Well, I think I am a reasonable judge of a man's character. what's hard for women to decipher is that even men who self-identify with being good men will waste time with a woman and he knows that that's what he's doing but she doesn't. Put her in a grey area so to speak. It can be hard to tell what's going on. But I don't think I would be in danger of getting pregnant :-p I'd shoot myself or end up in the local paper

[thedogdaysareover]

Oh yeah totally. I wasted 25 years of my life this way. Being a stop-gap and then wondering why this seemingly socially awkward chap seemed to have no problems chasing a girl he WAS interested in, when I had thought previously he was shy and (oh God for shame) too intimidated by me to ask me out, so I'd better ask him out myself just in case. What a complete rat trap that was. Watch them blaze in glory when they do want someone, it is like a different person and it is the most gutting thing. Really, my views have raised eyebrows but I don't care, I lived it.

[Chatarunga]

Yeh, I just walked away from a situation with a great guy, but it didn't seem to compromise his integrity to just pass time with me. I couldn't do that to a person I'd been on three dates with. I just can't use people. I think men see it differently. If you love them and they're only meh about you the onus is on you to walk away from them. They feel no guilt at all. It's been interesting, an eye-opener. Another lesson learnt the hard way. I keep thinking, right! I'm good to go now! NO more lessons left to learn! and then I learn another.

[StillDrSethHazlittMD]

the dogdays postings have given me the biggest laugh but also the biggest "how sad" for some considerable time with its sexist twaddle.

[thedogdaysareover]

I got all my best advice from this site. Don't be put off by the astrology in the title, she gives the best advice to women I ever heard, it was like a light went on in my head, why asking men out wasn't working for me and why.
www.aphroditeastrology.com

[thedogdaysareover]

Well, that's your opinion Dr Seth, I can only give my own. Sorry if you don't like it but that's too bad, I'm going to say it anyway because it got me out of 25 years of either abusive relationships, or lazy relationships.

[Chatarunga]

just reading this article now I think this is what I'm feeling.

frustration at the powerlessness

[StillDrSethHazlittMD]

You got all your best advice from site, did you, thedogdays. What about this nugget? You seem to disagree with it:

"Instead of passively sitting and waiting, waiting, waiting for men to “pick” you, for THEM to make a decision about YOU – choose to take full advantage of all that life has to offer and of all that being a single, independent modern woman has to offer and instead, YOU make a decision about the MAN"

Even in a cursory glance for 5 minutes there is some real total bollocks on that site, but horses for courses.

[Chatarunga]

It's a good article and the summary at the end, what you don't have the power to do, I know that of course, and as for what you do have the power to do (walk away) and be happy in your own life and certain of your own value. Those bits I am getting right. I have walked away from men passing time with me, taking out their low self-esteem on me, I dusted myself down when a man dumped me for having kids! I walked away from a man because I didn't want to be the one to pass time with him .

I do need to be a bit more pro-active (going back to OLD and sending messages myself, and in rl, working on my clues a bit. dialling up the brightness on my 'clues'!

[thedogdaysareover]

Nowhere on that link says about asking a man out, even though you do get to pick him. It takes more than a cursory glance to get the full meaning of the message I think.

[FrameyMcFrame]

Internet dating is how everyone meets everyone nowadays.

[Trills]

AgingJuvenileBinkyHuckaback

I like your approach and I agree that being proactive is statistically more likely to get you a god partner than passively waiting to be asked.

[Chatarunga]

It's a fine line I'd say, one breezy message just to establish an insouciant :-p level of interest, then sit back.

I must get back on line. Soon. I'm like ross and rachel right now.

[Babymamamama]

I agree women shouldn't chase but there's no rule against flirting. Men like to have signals. Eye and body language can signal your interest subtly. Smiling and getting eye contact with men also can open up conversations.

[DownstairsMixUp]

I have to admit i have never asked a man out 😶 but i dont think it is unusual. Dh says the time he was single before me he had women approach him and never thought it was a turn off etc.

[LogicalThinking]

Sorry, as a grown man, I don't play games.
^^ As a grown woman, I completely agree. I cannot bear all the game-playing. If people were just straight with each other then it would be a lot easier.

I would rather not take the chance of giving someone a big fat invitation to fuq me over that soon.
Asking someone out doesn't give them an invitation to fuck you over. You don't have to have sex until you want to, you don't have to see them again if they don't treat you well. You take things at the speed that works for you.

Vulnerable I mean physically, not mentally. More likely to be raped than a man, smaller physically, more likely to be date drugged, physically abused. Made pregnant. I think it is unwise to put yourself out there like that to the extent of asking a man out too
I don't understand how asking a man out can make you more vulnerable to being drugged, abused, raped and made pregnant. How would waiting for him to ask you out make you safer?
In fact I think abusive men are more likely to go for vulnerable women. A woman doing the asking may well come across more confident and self-assured.

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

I think the truth of the matter is that when a man is really genuinely interested in you, it doesn't matter whether you chase him or not - he will pursue you and let you know that he is interested in you.

[Chatarunga]

Oh I don't think I'd have the nerve for ''would you like to go out?'' but maybe, in answer to a slightly personal question I'd say / have said "well thats a discussion that requires a large glass of wine!"

[Catmuffin]

Ha ha at "I can't wait another decade for another passing unemployed granddad on a bicycle to ask me out!"

I asked my dh out, but then let him do the running after that to balance things out a bit and to make sure he was interested.

[JennyHolzersGhost]

Can we have some more specifics on the clues please !

[Chatarunga]

LyingWitchin, I suspect that's true. And yet also, so sad. No man has ever been genuinely or sufficiently interested in me :-/

[Chatarunga]

Yes JennyHolzers I would like to know how you give out clues without looking like a shameless brazen article.

:-p