All dating gurus say don't chase a man, let him chase you. But there's a flaw in that plan

[Chatarunga]

.......nobody has ever approached me. No that's not quite true. Last year, a man 7 years younger than I am asked me out. I'll be told off for being a snob here but he was between jobs (and had been for a while) and he was a granddad at 37. On the plus side, he went every where on his bike so he wasn't completely unfit. So, to be 'open' I went for a coffee with him and he talked absolute shite for an hour. And that is it. In nearly a decade. I have had a few v short flings with people I met on courses or through a friend, but that is it. So if I sat around waiting for somebody to approach me a decade could pass.
Do you ask men out? Are you brave enough? How do you even know if they're single?
I can't wait another decade for another passing unemployed granddad on a bicycle to ask me out! I need to take control of my love life.

[Catmuffin]

Article

[JennyHolzersGhost]

When people say 'smile and do eye contact' I just end up looking as though I'm hallucinating or have just been hit in the face with a brick and gone dizzy ...

[thedogdaysareover]

Logical I understand you saying about waiting for sex and all that can happen with someone you think is really nice and then find out is a player. I'm not suggesting by asking someone out I was a total slag and slept with them immediately. Often I did the right thing and they appeared to be making the right noises and doing the right thing, often waited months. End result the same, players wait, they have women on a giant rotation so they can afford to. It protects you from nothing. But they know from the start that you a certainty. Players aka narcissists, love to toy with people.

Your second point, because players are more likely to just go out with women who ask them out because they are players, not because they are really suited to the woman or think she is a serious contender for his affections. You run the risk of abuse and meeting narcissists if you ask a man out. It is the biggest lie out there that if you don't ask a man out you are not sufficiently liberated or open minded and you are sexist. Well I'll take the chance thanks, I'm only asking for a man to express interest in seeing me before I do. It's not like I'm asking for blood fgs. It's self-protection and will weed out predators, not all but most. A woman doing the asking Is often more vulnerable, thinking she is doing herself a favour by "taking control". Please understand that I am not talking about all men, I am talking about players, how not to fall foul of one. Is it really too much to ask that a man ask you out if he wants to? Those not asking you out do not want to, in my experience. Let them go.

[HappyJanuary]

I can't send out clues either. We need someone knowledgeable to come on and share their wisdom. I'd rather die than let someone know I like them and not have it reciprocated.

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

That made me laugh, Jenny, because I know exactly the look that you mean!

Chatarunga, I know, it's rubbish isn't it, but it's very true.

[StillDrSethHazlittMD]

"You run the risk of abuse and meeting narcissists if you ask a man out."

SERIOUSLY?

[thedogdaysareover]

Yes. Seriously. Because players don't have discrimination. If a woman asked a good man out and he said no thanks, then that is discrimination. It Players fuq everybody generally.

[Summerwalking16]

So what are the clues for OP?? Any men want to enlighten?

[concertplayer]

The people who are saying do not ask a man out etc are right:
I do not mean that it is going to lead to abuse, rape etc
but I think it all down to nature. Men can be far more casual
about sex/relationships with women because they have less
to lose. They do not carry the can ie pregnancy.
Just being a woman with all the medical stuff alone even
without the actual pregnancy is awful.
Just think if we were the same there would be no procreation.
Men happily pay for sex- so women doing it for free are a bonus

[thedogdaysareover]

Well it's good to have someone agreeing.
I'm not being sexist, I wish people would see that. I just have hard won experience and the best relationship of my life because I tried something new instead of repeating behaviour that was clearly not working for me.

In sending out clues you don't have to do anything special other than have a conversation, be engaging, easy to talk to and do plenty of listening. That's all. Listening most of all, for red flags. That is how you enact your power, not by rushing in and asking a guy out. Don't be so busy thinking about whether he likes you, ask yourself, do you like him?

[Summerwalking16]

Agree concertplayer especially with tinder now, although I also agree with the theory that if you wait for a person to pick you they might not be the best match. They also tend to be generally the more aggressive testosterone types (generalising massively here please forgive)

[pocketsaviour]

OP, try Matthew Hussey's site for advice about flirting (i.e. dropping clues that you're interested.)
www.gettheguy.co.uk/blog/

He tries to sell you some of his books and courses but there's plenty of gems in his short videos and blog posts.

[OrangesandLemonsNow]

Because players don't have discrimination.

Women can be 'players' too

If a woman asked a good man out and he said no thanks, then that is discrimination.

Eh. It isn't discrimination just because someone doesn't want to go out with someone.

[mayhew]

If I hadn't asked my DH out we would never had got together (32 yrs).

In fact I asked him out and he turned me down! Then a female friend challenged him saying he was failing to change patriarchal values by knocking me back. I was mortified.

We had a drink to cleat the air. We've been together ever since.

What's the worst that can happen?

[Walkacrossthesand]

I'm older (mid 50s), reluctantly longterm single, but friendly, and I chat to men I meet IRL. It's never long into a conversation before the wife is casually mentioned...maybe one day I'll strike lucky!

[thedogdaysareover]

Discrimination as in discriminating, being choosy not a complete man tart.

[thedogdaysareover]

And I was replying to a woman asking about men, so therefore I was referring to men being the player in this scenario. I'm sorry that I haven't considered every combination of parts, but this was the OP.

And I'm not saying that women shouldn't ask men out, if they are fairly sure the guy isn't an arse, but by doing the asking you can never be sure, in all situations, that he really likes you or if he is just saying yes because, well who wouldn't.

[Chatarunga]

The worst type of man that I'm attracted to is the type who won't commit.
I'm not drawn to people with no empathy. I met somebody like this in my late 20s so I do recognise that type now. I get a chill. It goes back to what lyinwitch says. If somebody likes you enough though.................
My only power is to walk away.


The type of man who poses a 'danger' to me is the type that is more than capable of forming a connection but who knows he has options so he remains on the periphery of a committed relationship, or labels it a friendship or something.

But, I will just walk away from that one too in the future.

You get tired of walking away though. I wish somebody would measure up.

[Chatarunga]

thedogdaysareover did your current partner just approach you then?

[Zaphodsotherhead]

I'd go for being really outgoing and just chatting in a friendly fashion to all men (within reason, I mean, not stopping them in the street). Cast your net wide, and all that... friendly chat can lead to banter which can lead to further chat, etc etc...even I have been asked out for a drink using this method, and I am hideous.

[ThisIsTheRightTime]

I'm delighted to have found this thread! I've just mentioned it to my 20 year old DD and 12 year old DS and they both simultaneously cried out indignant words to the effect of 'why on earth shouldn't women ask men out?' It appears my twelve year old son has more sense and instinct than his fully grown mother.

I'm currently on another thread jabbering on about a car mechanic, a much younger and completely gorgeous man. Way back in March he started giving me those long, unforgettable looks which turned me into a gibbering wreck but I wasn't quite ready for these clear signs as I was still recovering from my narcissistic husband walking out on me over a year ago.

Moving on, I only get to see him on average once every few weeks but the tension of mutual attraction between us is palpable. And still nobody makes a clear move.

Half my friends (male ones, interestingly) state I should just ask him out as we are wasting our time for no reason. The other half (mostly women) advise me to wait for him to make the first move.

I'm almost stifling a yawn here. Clearly both he and I are afraid. I think he has more at stake as he knows I am undergoing divorce proceedings (no problem there), knows I am older and have children and also knows I am a client of the garage. I'm not looking for anything long term, just some shared happiness for the short term.

I am quite proud of my children for their clear mindset and wish I could shake off my overly traditional upbringing. I can almost hear my mother on my shoulder jabbering on, bless her!

[thedogdaysareover]

Yes he did Chatarunga, we knew each other for a little bit just talking. I made it clear (not in an obvious way) that I was single and we went from there. He asked me out on a date (the first of my life) and I waited until he expressed an interest in seeing me again. It was great. It was really great not to have to worry about manoeuvring him into anything. I thought if he likes me he will ask me out a second time, and he did. And when it came time for snogging and talking about a relationship I let him do the asking and I accepted. And the same for when it came to talking about moving in together, I waited. I knew what I wanted all along, I just wanted him to want it to. And he proposed to me, I said nothing of marriage only that I indicated I was serious and committed to him. This is not a one size fits all approach but I need to know if someone wants me. I think men want to feel that they have chosen, and if they haven't chosen you when you want to that is too bad for you, but that is a pretty big sign that you should back the hell off.

I just sat up the pub and listened to stories about the biggest single player of my husband's aquaintance talking about his antics. I like the man, a lot actually, since I am not on the receiving end of his crap. I think a lot of people are being naive here. Yes a woman can ask a man out and it might end well, but it speaks more for the quality of the guy and a bit of blind luck than that being the norm. "what's the worst that can happen?" Err, you get fucked over, up the duff and abandoned by some idiot who you gave the green light to way before you should have. For anyone who hasn't experienced emotional abuse this might seem like stupid untrusting talk but for anyone that has....

[ThisIsTheRightTime]

I rather like Matthew Hussey's advice generally.

[thedogdaysareover]

I think the biggest mistake you can make Thisistherighttime, is to assume anything about why a man has not asked you out. The fact is he has not asked you out when he has a working brain and is single. The best thing you can do is to wait and see if he has weighed up his options enough to ask you out. Men generally are not afraid to ask for what they want, if they want it badly enough, in my experience and in my opinion. Hell I got asked out by a ton of married men that clearly weren't available and who saw me as a shag, they weren't bloody shy I can tell you. I don't think men are, they are hard wired for this stuff. Denying that fact is just naive. Wait wait wait. If people see that as women being passive or shackled then they are a bit daft. Some women get fd over by some types of men every single day. How many of your acquaintance are single fathers left holding the baby and dealing with the aftermath of a woman player? Not many I'll bet.

[thedogdaysareover]

A much younger and clearly gorgeous man is not going to risk anything for you other than a shag, you have baggage, and the long looks are just player moves, I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell you this, I wouldn't if not the same thing had happened to me, I take no pleasure in telling you this but I am anyway. In this case, wait , really, it sounds like you are being led by your pants and imagining all sorts of reasons why he hasn't asked you out, which basically boil down to the fact that he has weighed up you're not worth the hassle. Maybe for a shag but that's about it. Don't ask this one out for the love of God.