All dating gurus say don't chase a man, let him chase you. But there's a flaw in that plan

[Chatarunga]

.......nobody has ever approached me. No that's not quite true. Last year, a man 7 years younger than I am asked me out. I'll be told off for being a snob here but he was between jobs (and had been for a while) and he was a granddad at 37. On the plus side, he went every where on his bike so he wasn't completely unfit. So, to be 'open' I went for a coffee with him and he talked absolute shite for an hour. And that is it. In nearly a decade. I have had a few v short flings with people I met on courses or through a friend, but that is it. So if I sat around waiting for somebody to approach me a decade could pass.
Do you ask men out? Are you brave enough? How do you even know if they're single?
I can't wait another decade for another passing unemployed granddad on a bicycle to ask me out! I need to take control of my love life.

[isseywithcats]

my Dp who i have been with for three years i saw his profile on POF i messaged him first i wasnt on his list of profiles so if i hadnt messaged him we would never have met as he lived in one town. i lived in another and our respective jobs are in different areas of life hes a lecturer and im in catering so yes sometimes it pays to do the approach first if your a woman

[Sample1936]

I actually agree with dogdays.
If he likes you enough he will ask you out. Shy or not.
If you ask him sadly he'll say yes for the free sex or/and because he felt pressured/flattered.

[Gwenhwyfar]

Trills, yes that's what I mean. I've just heard that with OLD some people do give the other a type of evaluation and I suppose there are people anxiously waiting to hear something.

[Trills]

If someone sent me a message asking if I wanted to meet up again I woudl reply politely.

If they didn't message me then I would not feel the need to say "by the way I don't want to see you"

[Gwenhwyfar]

"8.If I did not want to progress to a second date I would still send a polite thanks but no thanks text what, even if the woman hadn't given you feedback either way??? I never know what to do there. Do you send a man a text to say no thank you when he hasn't said yes please :-p"

Yes, I've wondered about this one. Apparently some people want to know one way or another if they've passed the test, but traditionally if the date didn't go well you just didn't have to be in contact again. I think that's sometimes kinder than getting 'actually, you're not my type' when you've only been on one date.

[ChitChatarunga]

Thanks Pan, that not texting back if you like somebody is not something I've ever read suggested as a 'rule', but then I haven't read the actual "The Rules".

1. I try to move it to rl as soon as I think I've established there's some level of compatibility but that's the point they all run away.. I could leave it longer, but it is men more than women who would be the strongest advocates of meeting sooner rahter than later and I agree with that
   
2. snap. My profile does reflect me. Maybe I seem to uncomplicated for the men I'd be attracted to.
   

3.I was suspicious of profiles that had just one close up face pic and nothing else. ok that's interesting, I must put up one of my whole body, clothed, of course!
4.I did not respond to emails that just said ‘hi’ snap so boring!
5.I dated people within a 10 mile radius of me (I live in a city so admittedly there is a bit more choice) *yeh, the two people I dated/got close to (not the same), one lived the other side of my greater area and the other one lived 200 miles away.
6.I did not use the line ‘I love a good night in on the sofa with a bottle of wine and a good DVD’ ha ha! very sensible, I'd think that was a lazy man
7.If I enjoyed a first date I would tell the person soon afterwards. yeh, that'd work for me, I'm very transparent. Too transparent I think
8.If I did not want to progress to a second date I would still send a polite thanks but no thanks text what, even if the woman hadn't given you feedback either way??? I never know what to do there. Do you send a man a text to say no thank you when he hasn't said yes please :-p
9.If said person did not get back to me within a week of me calling/texting I would assume she is not interested or playing games, either way I would move on. totally agree
10.First dates were typically lunch or a few drinks i hate eating in front of somebody the first time I meet them, few chips maybe!
11.I would treat any women who refused to open her purse once during a date as being a bit tight or entitled….this is the 2016 not 1955 not guilty, always treated a man to drinks, or treated him the next time,, any sign of caution for being fleeced would put me right off though
12.I would treat as suspicious anyone who would spend the date talking about their ex nope, so long ago
13. I would be suspicious of any women suggesting high end restaurants/venues for first dates. never done that, but once a restaurant I suggested had gone upmarket since I went there last and I was really embarrassed, tripping myself up trying to express how upmarket it had gone since I last visited it and how I hadn't known about that

Don't dis all the rules. I've watched matthew hussey and matt boggs and adam lodocle. They're all pretty funny too. They give good advice. Just like, you're auditioning too! set your standards. hold on to those.

I've never NOT responded to a man's text, but i think sometimes if you get in to a volley of texts that begins to lose steam, I can be the first to allow it rest, for a while. Not just because I don't want to seem to desperate to keep the chat going, and, I'd rather meet up! I somethings think I'm the only one who'd rather actually meet up.

Anyway, thanks for your highly ordered numbered points! Another fear of mine is that men in their forties will chat for hours but will only leave the house to meet a woman in their 30s. I'm not sure if I'm reading too much in to all the men in their 40s who're prepared to spend hours messaging, but won't meet up. I wonder, why are they here if it's not to leave the house and meet somebody? So that somebody is not me. I'm not offering myself up as a counsellor so I'd like to make that clear in my profile but the moment you start putting any sort of coded message in to your profile you look 'hurt'. And I'm not.

My profile (I think) conveys that I'm sociable but in a balanced way. I value my core life (home, job, family, goals, health) as well as getting out there and meeting somebody.

[Piemernator]

I have been married ages, started dating future DH at 31. Personally men irritate the hell out of me, they always have, it's not that I dislike them but I much prefer them as friends than lovers.

So I was actually almost hostile and disinterested in dating as it interrupted my free time to do what I wanted. This seemed to have a bizarre effect and I was never short of potential boyfriends.I have had 4 marriage proposals and actually turned down DH twice before accepting.

I have a really nice male friend I asked him once and he said I am so awkward men would see me as a challenge.

[PanGalaticGargleBlaster]

Apologies Misc and Chit, been away for a few days.

I do not define a timewaster as someone who would not have sex with me within three dates! Give me some credit! Typically it was people who were content to keep everything online, endless exchanging of emails or texts without any apparent commitment to actually wanting to meet in real life. There were the game players; women who were following 'dating rules' of some sort that bizarrely involved not returning calls or texts. This actually happened a few times whereby I thought a first date had gone very well and I would follow up said date with call asking if she would like to meet again only to get voicemail, I leave a cheery message and I hear nothing back. After a week I assume she is not interested and I move on only to get a text or email from her a few weeks later wondering where I went. After pointing out that I sent a couple of texts and left a voicemail without response from her she with all seriousness said that I had to call her at least twice to show her that I was serious about her….wtf. These were 30something old women playing these games, I just have zero time for it.

My strategies, such as they were, worked for me so take from them what you will.

1. I moved from swapping emails to chatting on the phone relatively quickly, you will learn more about someone’s character in a 15 min phone call then you would exchanging a dozen long winded emails.
   
2. I was honest with my profile, I took the time to write several paragraphs, included several pics that were recent and did not contain caught fish, a cropped out ex or me posing with my top off.
   
3. I was suspicious of profiles that had just one close up face pic and nothing else.
   
4. I did not respond to emails that just said ‘hi’
   
5. I dated people within a 10 mile radius of me (I live in a city so admittedly there is a bit more choice)
   
6. I did not use the line ‘I love a good night in on the sofa with a bottle of wine and a good DVD’
   
7. If I enjoyed a first date I would tell the person soon afterwards.
   
8. If I did not want to progress to a second date I would still send a polite thanks but no thanks text
   
9. If said person did not get back to me within a week of me calling/texting I would assume she is not interested or playing games, either way I would move on.
   
10. First dates were typically lunch or a few drinks
    
11. I would treat any women who refused to open her purse once during a date as being a bit tight or entitled….this is the 2016 not 1955
    
12. I would treat as suspicious anyone who would spend the date talking about their ex
    
13. I would be suspicious of any women suggesting high end restaurants/venues for first dates.

[monkeychop]

Surely the whole point of a first date is to "tyre kick"?

[Toddzoid]

I've asked a few men out now. They've all accepted. I dated one of them for nearly a year! None of them were freaked out or found it too forward, I think they quite liked it in fact.

If I like someone I'm not in the business of fucking about playing mind games. I let them know I like them and we go from there. No stupid hard to get games from me! It's worked thus far anyway... Get yourself out there, don't wait for a man to fall in your lap.

[ChitChatarunga]

Miscellaneousassortment
that has happened to me so often. Lost count.

[ChitChatarunga]

Well a tyre kicker comes to view a for sale car, kicks the tyres a bit and then doesnt buy it. So it would translate to humans and dating as not wanting a sevond date. I think. I didnt message to ask him to clarify!!

[MiscellaneousAssortment]

I recall a friend (male) saying he'd get people messaging, they'd exchange messages for a while getting ever more 'relationship-py' but every time he'd suggest meeting up they'd go quiet and shy off.

Maybe that could be time wasting?

[HangingRockPicnic]

What's a tyre kicker?

[CherryPicking]

That's not the only flaw in the plan: a bigger flaw is that you're much more likely to end up with someone obsessively persistent and controlling, because these men are the most likely to chase someone who appears uninterested.

[ChitChatarunga]

Also, can I ask, what is a ''time waster''? Is this a woman who goes out with you a few times but doesn't end up in bed with you? I fear that this is what men mean when they condemn ''time wasters'' on their profiles.

Like it never happens to women! You go out with somebody a few times and then they disappear. Actually, that hasn't happened to me! But.... I've been dumped after 10 dates.

Sometimes you do have to go out with somebody a few times before you realise, no, this wouldn't work. I have done that.

You're only getting to know each other the first few dates. I've seen ''no tyre kickers'' as well. HOW can you possibly know if you're a tyre kicker or not until you've seen the tyres

[MiscellaneousAssortment]

Pan that's interesting, what strategies did you start using to weed out the timeswasters and bullshitters?

It will be a while before I would even start thinking about dating but it's very useful to know how on earth you navigate this crazy world of online dating.

hare I'm somehow heartened by not being alone in this quest to work out how to be at home in a different body type ... Although it's not the greatest club to be a member of!

And then the really tricky but of how to feel at ease in a less perfect body (ahem, very polite way of describing the sad ruin of mine!). Sigh.

It's a tricky thing even before you bring other people into it and the whole getting naked together thing.

[ChitChatarunga]

Are you a man? So what would you do if you were a woman of 45? Any advice. I am bombarded with advice from married friends who haven't done OLD! and so unsurprisingly their advice is pretty limited in its usefulness. I would never allow a man to pay for a meal for me unless I knew I would feel comfortable if he expected a subsequent date. ie, I'm comfortable allowing a man to treat me if I genuinely like him. But if I am thinking, what time is it, can I go yet.... I want to pay half. I had a meal with a man in March and as I was sitting down he said ''my treat!'' which was lovely as I didn't have to agonise over whether I should pay half, and if I did, what message it'd send. I treated him to about three rounds of drinks later, so he knew I wasn't a freeloader. I hate feeling beholden to somebody. But then, if I feel I like them I believe (erroneously?!) that they're happy to treat me so it doesn't feel like being beholden. On another thread I've been told that you ought to insist on paying half, but does that not give the signal that you want to wrap things up? It's like well, i'll be in touchseeyaround.

[PanGalaticGargleBlaster]

You don't have to put your exact weight but you are asked to describe your body type (athletic, slender, curvy etc). Like you I am a veteran of OLD and thought the phrase curvy was seriously abused (along with age). I had a few dates who confessed on a second or third date that there were 4 or 5 years older then their profile suggested, that just pissed me off. I agree with the timewasting, I got the impression there were quite a few people bored at work who just enjoyed some flirty banter and a more cynical part of me felt there was a sizeable minority who equally enjoyed a free meal at a nice restaurant. But, as I am sure you did you soon learn strategies to weed out the timeswasters and bullshitters, once I had figured that out the dates I had improved immeasurably and even if there was no chemistry so to speak on a date the evening was still very enjoyable and often resulted in friendship if not romance.

[ChitChatarunga]

Also, although I haven't YET, I'm kind of coming around to accepting that I am going to have to lie about my age if I want to have success OLD.
Only because men say 5 years older than I am, and that's still oldER, those men are still fifty years old, still five years older than I am, they seem to go on line expecting to date a 35 year old. I would love to know do they get any replies? what happens? the population is ageing. There aren't enough 35 year olds to go around.

I just can't quite believe how hard it is. It should be MUCH easier.

[ChitChatarunga]

You don't have to put your weight!
In theory I agree, not a fan of bullshitting, but having a run of OLD under my belt now, I wonder if people see the age 45 and just assume that that is code for 50. I don't know, do you have to lie to show up in the searches of the men you'd date! I do think there's a lot of time wasting going on. I've my settings set so that men older than 52 can't message me, but perhaps if they think I'm lying about my age, they are messaging 35 year olds, who wouldn't reply. There are about a thousand messages for every real life meet up I think. Good old fashioned agencies would prevent the lies!

[PanGalaticGargleBlaster]

Height is another really annoying thing that men lie about online.

I bet that for every man that lies about his height there is a women lying about her age or weight. Can't see the point of men or women bullshitting on their profiles, it's not exactly something you can keep a secret for long and from the off you have shown yourself to be a bit untrustworthy.

[hareinthemoon]

Chit that is interesting about the dating sites.

Miscellaneous I relate really strongly. I was never gorgeous but I certainly was sexy and I was at home in my body. Pregnancy gave me comedy breasts which never went away and I became larger, and lost the whole sense of where my attractiveness lay. I have yet to find it again but I do notice if I see a woman who looks gorgeous it is never one type. There are all kinds of gorgeous women out there of all different types. Some of the women I think are gorgeous in no way fit stereotypes of gorgeousness. I love to celebrate the beauty of women and I hope to find a way of seeing it in myself some day, once I pick up the pieces of my self esteem. I let it get tattered by by experiences but I think it is the only thing I can work on now. I wonder if you have the same thing of living in your head a bit and overthinking your body letting you down as I do! Recently I've been trying to think of ways for my body to experience pleasure and I think that takes a little of the pressure away from thinking your body has to be able to look or move a certain way for someone else's pleasure.

[ChitChatarunga]

I'm only 5'2 and it annoys me that men lie about their height too! I have tried doing searches for shorter men but apparently there aren't any. There is no man on line under 5'10" hmm
I went on a date with a man who was only about my height! I think he'd said he was 5'8". I can't remember but I was astonished when he walked in. The extent of the lie! I should have told him I was 25

[MiscellaneousAssortment]

Height is another really annoying thing that men lie about online.

It really irritates me as I'm tall, so when they stick on another 4-6 inches it really really shows the lie!

As I tower over a man who claims to be 6 inches taller than me it rather makes first meetings awkward as they flounder for an explanation of making such a massive error in knowing their own height. It's cringey and reveals their inadequacies! Inadequacies in attitude rather than inches ... If you have a thing about your height, go for shorter women ffs!
Why on earth go for a woman who will clearly tower him whilst he glares and grimbles about being 'outed'!