You cannot communicate with batshit

[Pingpang]

Following on from a recent thread regarding those who are NC/LC with family members.

Welcome to the good ship Narcymcnarcface! The bar is stocked and there's a seat for everyone. Shuffleboard starts in 20 mins.

So it was one third of my batshits birthday today, MIL. For 18 years every present and card has been unenthusiastically opened and rejected even for my DC. This year I spent the grand sum of £2 on some shit perfume and Christmas chocolates from the pound shop. Her face was a picture. Me and DP high fives in car and spent the allotted birthday money on a slap up breakfast for us and the kids.

And now she's been put in a position of sorting things and obviously wants to make her daughter (my M) happy.

And the guilt of upsetting your GM is adding pressure beautifully, as a tactic you have to admire it. It's effective!

Your GM is upset because she wants to make her daughter happy - and possibly get the pressure off herself - and because she may well have bought into your DM's story of being sad, misunderstood and abandoned. It doesn't make it your job to 'fix' her feelings any more than it is to fix your DM's. A gentle, cheerful, that's kind of you but no thanks, I've made the decisions I need to make is all you need to say.

It won't be what DGM wants to hear and that is hard, but one of the hardest things I had to get my head around was that someone being sad or upset by something didn't mean I was doing something wrong and that I was obliged to change everything to make them happy however I felt. Getting upset to you is in the nicest way, adding pressure on you to let that boundary go and do what DGM wants you to do.

Oh yes I know she's totally using my GM as the latest tactic. She's tried every other possible way to get me to react to her.

I did explain to my GM a few months ago why I had gone NC. Not the full details (because frankly nobody wants to hear that) but enough that I thought my GM understood that there really isn't a way back from this. And GM seemed shocked, but now has obviously had pressure put on her.

I hate all of this. Everytime I get another letter, or email or message from her it makes me feel ill for days. I just want to be left alone. I don't want my DC affected by her. I don't need her.

Probably nothing you can do then Strawberry - you could try being honest again with your GM?

"I'll have to stop being in touch for a while unless you let up, and I absolutely don't want to do that. But you know why we're not in contact anymore, and it's making me ill with stress over it going through it all again. Please be assured that you've done your best, but this isn't something that you or anyone else can fix, and I just want to be left alone by mum from now on."??

Ahoy there

Have read this thread and its predecessor and omg, you're all describing my parents. For instance:

Shit presents. Every year, without fail, my mother asks me what I want for my birthday/Christmas. I give her a short list. I have never once received anything from the list but get random weird stuff instead, such as garden centre vouchers when she knows I hate gardening, or endless bed socks, which I never wear.

Controlling with money. My father, who is comfortably off but not rich, puts money into my account, a hundred or so at a time, and makes a big deal out of it. Then tells me I must do something (like "go home" for Christmas) because of the money he's given me. I should probably just start returning it, but to be honest I'm struggling a little financially at present so I haven't.

Bitching about other family members. My mother used to ring me constantly to complain about my father and my sister, and my sister to complain about my father and me. We've had to ban her from doing this and then she gets all self-pitying and does the, I need to talk about this and you're the only person I can trust....

There's loads, loads more, including threats of suicide if I don't do precisely what she wants, batshit crazy levels of reality denial, and currently, cutting herself off from all her friends and other sources of support so we will see that we her daughters need to take better care of her because she's all alone... I wish I had the courage to go NC but I don't.

Neither do I really tackle any of this, just do as LC as possible and keep my head down. Still, at 37 I feel really stunted by my relationship with my parents and that the relatively happy little life i've made for myself several hundred miles away from them feels under threat every time I have any contact with them (the fear, anxiety, depression that comes with every phone call, let alone visit). I am having some therapy at the moment that's helping a bit but really I know my life would be so much better without them in it :( but can't see a way to bring that about.

I've also been on the receiving end of some serious judgementalism from people when I say I have no real relationship with my mother. But she's never been a mother to me: I honestly can't ever remember a single hug, cuddle, or piece of empathy when I was upset, just being told to grow up and stop being a wimp. She knows nothing about my life or struggles and has never supported me, yet now she's older and has been ill expects total support and commitment from me, which I am simply emotionally incapable of giving her.

It makes me start worrying all over again that NC wasn't the right thing to do. That it makes me a bad person. But it wasn't an impulse choice, I really saw no choice If I was to remain safe and keep my DC safe.

I don't have any children, partly because I spent most of my life thinking I would probably be as bad a mother as she was to me (I no longer think this but there are other reasons not to have them). However, I am sure that if I did I wouldn't want my parents anywhere near them. When my sister had her child my mother was so helpful, moved in, offered loads of advice, helped her when she struggled with breast feeding, etc - then when my nephew was 5 weeks old and my BIL had gone abroad for a few days on a business trip, staged a huge drama that was all about her and eventually my sleep-deprived emotional sister had to tell her to go home.

I do have a little dog I love, and when my mother offered to look after her I was shocked at how strong my reaction was that there is no way I'd trust her to.

Even if you hired a billboard with a fucking great big arrow pointing at a photo of her, she's still deny it.

This is what I saw on gn last I was there. All the 'regulars' are finally accepting that notanan's parents WERE abusive but... Refuse to accept they were.

Can you imagine the reaction if it were to turn out she is actually one of their daughters? Btw notanan you're doing a sterling job

I was 29 the first time, 35 the 2nd this time 42 and certainly as far as father and sister go it won't be changing again. My feelings for my mother are more complicated as she is also a victim (of dv). So it's harder. She has at least stopped being a flying monkey as the last time I'll admit I threatened to go nc with her too if she didn't pack it in!

Milestone birthdays definitely a factor. A friend of mines half sister has gone nc with her mother (not my friends mother my friends fathers first wife if that makes sense) and the daughter is 60! She wishes she'd done it years ago!

Another here that had non-tactile parents (well if you discount the Csa ) certainly my mum was not huggy, what's weird is her siblings and my GP that side were/are very huggy.

Those pp's asking advice while we will certainly do our best here, I thoroughly recommend the stately homes thread and if you're very lucky Attila will come along and advise.

Loving the drowned album!

Re gifts - I get what my sister would like from my mum, sis gets what I'd like from dad! Nuts!

Olives my parents have NEVER been allowed to babysit dd. no way would I risk it.

Btw my parents KNEW why I wouldn't let them babysit but raised the issue in front of others putting me in the position of having to give a reason. Luckily the people who they did this in front of already knew of my dad's drinking and violence, which my parents would have hated them knowing, and so didn't rise to the bait.

olives I hate it when people are judgemental about not having a hallmark mother daughter relationship my all time most hated comment is "you only get one mother"

strawberry I can relate to the stress and the doubt, phone call today has triggered my anxiety and really upset me especially as dh is chipping in his 2 penth in about giving her another chance

I'm trying to remind myself of all the crap she's done and all the opportunities she's had to behave like a normal person and for us to have a respectful adult relationship, we're not bad people for wanting to protect ourselves and as you say none of us have made the decision to go NC lightly.
You wouldn't maintain a friendship if someone treated you in the same way!

Olive can I ask what's stopping you from going NC? If it's fear of confrontation remember you're not obliged to do it face to face. You're not obliged to do anything, and you've every right to protect yourself.
Short of NC, you an try and make yourself as boring as possible - don't give them any detail on your life, just keep everything bland and boring.
And on the money issue - I look at it this way, that if we had normal pares whom we didn't approve of or something (rather than abusive ones) then it would be hypocritical to take their money, but once you're into abuse territory the only thing to consider is what course of action keeps you safest. If you need the money, if it makes you more financially secure and less likely ever to need to rely on your parents in an emergency - take it and don't feel guilty. And if you do feel guilty, that still doesn't mean you're obliged to do as your father wants - money in exchange for control over you is not right, and you don't have to say yes to it.

I've had a real jolt of recognition about DM as I've read this thread

Forgot to add another one with a non hugging mother, my dad used to hug me and she would shout at him that I was too old for that and to put me down.

She'll spend hours hugging and cuddling her dog though

Shit presents. Every year, without fail, my mother asks me what I want for my birthday/Christmas. I give her a short list. I have never once received anything from the list but get random weird stuff instead, such as garden centre vouchers when she knows I hate gardening, or endless bed socks, which I never wear.

Yeah.

DD2 would get toys aimed at DD1's age range, so basically, DD1 would get 2 christmas presents because DD2 would get nothing suitable for her age range.
And DD1 would get a gift on DD2s birthday "so she feels included".
and you've guessed in, on DD2's birthday it was all about DD2

She would ask me what they wanted, then make a huge performance of disagreeing with me and getting something else she wanted to get all along

For me, she would go WAY out of her way to get something she'ld know I wouldn't use. Details would be identifiable.. basically, stuff that anyone who knows me would know I wouldn't use or wouldn't be able to use.

Nothing is fucking given with any generosity of heart y'know, everything has to have a sting in the tail.

Hi all

Not a lot of time to read and respond tonight so just want to jump on the boat xx

Yy to the "Stately homes" threads if you haven't seen them already.

For anybody dealing with mother in law issues this is the best blog evvverrrr.
narcissisticmil.wordpress.com/

Oh my god the shit presents. I once asked for a metal dustbin because I had a problem with the larger species of vermin, they were literally chewing though the wooden bits of my house to get in. That's all I wanted, for my Christmas present. Oh what a greedy cow. What do I get? A plastic bin, must have cost all of a tenner, and something I could have picked up myself at the hardware down the road after the last time the rats chewed through another plastic bin. Another Christmas I ask for a cheese plant. Have always wanted a cheese plant but I live in the arse end of nowhere, impossible to get one, though I have several yucca plants I would like a cheese plant because I like plants with rounded leaves, I keep spiking my eyes on yuccas when cleaning haha, all explained in great detail to NM because I feel maybe the shit present buying was because maybe I wasn't being clear enough.

Any guesses as to what spiky species of houseplant I received? Anyone, anyone, Bueller, Bueller?

And they know that shit present-buying represents the sneakiest sort of Chinese burn under the table, because aren't you an ungrateful fuq if you complain. In the end I always asked them to buy an African village a goat on my behalf. I really would like you to buy a goat voucher from Oxfam for me, I am not into material things these days mother, a goat is the thing, and I would text everybody in the family saying, club together with mother to get me a goat this year people, and they would go, awww, that's nice, and then my mother would look like an African-hater if she did not comply. I see your Chinese burn and I raise you a pinch on the bingo wings, ya cow. She would always fret and complain and say, you will have nothing to open! Made a right meal of it all. Hahahahahahahahaha

I am always interested in any stories about when you've got one over on a narc. I need the comedy. I must have it goddamn you! It's the only thing that keeps me weeping into my chips.

Ahoy there! May I come aboard too? Currently drifting on a raft of my own construction. Well stocked with tea and gin but would love some seafaring company.

Long time lurker here. LC but considering how I might deal with NC.

DM is a narc, had a traumatic childhood (EA and beatings, EA/SA on/off type relationships as an adult). Our childhood was awful too but we can't mention that, as her life has been so hard for her. She'd always talk about how she never hit us as if this was a real luxury (and actually she did smack me) There is a 'funny' story she used to tell about how when I was tiny I'd said I was an unhappy child. I guess she realises this might not look good for her now, or I might not laugh any more, or she's just forgotten what an inconvenient and ungrateful child I was, she doesn't tell that one now.

She was always so miserable. I felt so relieved if she had friends or a boyfriend to visit because she'd be friendly and functional and make regular meals and take us out etc. My sister was the GC and me the SG. It was baffling when my sister kicked off about my mum having boyfriends- what was there to be jealous of?

Us kids contributed to her problems as she had to look after us as a LP. I wished I didn't have to live with her. (Tho of course as we were at our dads a lot she got more time away from us than many parents do )

There are so many things you've all mentioned about your DMs that is the same: preferring sympathetic strangers to family, playing off family members, grandiose but falsely modest, seeking reassurance but throwing it back in your face unpredictably. Using (unasked for) gifts, money and affection for control.

My DF has traits of narc, but now makes an effort as a GP so I am more willing to forgive him. HIs wife is a nice GM and with her encouragement he provides qualified support or material things for his step and grandkids that wouldn't have registered when I was a kid. (Like taking an interest in their schoolwork- though this comes with a price about his specific academic expectations for them..) he's not had a complete personality transplant.

My DPs split up but remained in conflict e.g. interrogated us about the absent parent's love life, employment status etc etc. Never have either asked how we felt about any of it, we had to support them in their tirades against the other. We couldn't have needs or feelings. I would not reveal information out of loyalty and guilt towards the absent parent and fear of the consequences. My DM would tell me to lie eg if my DF asked about whether X was living with us/her.

I now lie out of guilt quite often, have trouble making small talk and have no idea about normal friendships. I avoid social media apart from anonymous MN as I am anxious not to reveal personal stuff. I am conscious of putting people out or being annoying so could never eg call a friend just for a chat. only to make an arrangement. I need 'an excuse'. I'm a shit friend.

I could never bring any friends back to my mums as she was so wierd. I occasionally did to my dad's but he was wierd in other ways so that stopped once I reached about 10 years old. I couldn't ever tell a friend why I was so closed off. Having friends round still feels so exposing tho I am trying to do it more now to get over it.
Doing NCT etc it was bizarre to me how everyone else so casually dropped in on each other. I got myself kind of adopted into friends families as a teen, which got me into trouble at home.

The lack of money was a massive issue growing up. what 'I cost' made me very self conscious, my mum complained about how little money my dad gave her, and my dad complained about how much money 'he had to give my mum'. I am now incredibly anxious about spending or 'costing' money, taking too much food/wasting food, taking up space, anyone's time. (Ironic given the length of this post, right )

Neither parent has ever said they loved me, no physical affection and I try to avoid intimacy now. In early teens I had a nervous breakdown; mild depression ever since but these days more anxiety than depression. (Yay!)

As PP have said, no talks (or knowledge/interest) about my friendships, sex or relationships, puberty or periods, no supplies. I sorted it all out myself in secret with my pocket money, first bra, pads etc. My mum specifically told me not to take her pads or toiletries although my sister was allowed to and was bought them by her. obviously I bought my wedding dress by myself etc (only just realised that might not be the norm)

I put myself at risk looking for affection and attention as I grew up. Luckily found my lovely DH fairly recently, thank god for him, probably we bonded in part due to his shitty childhood also.

I am desperate not to go the same way as my DPs or PIL now I am a parent. It's dawning that 'my normal' for parenting and for being part of a couple is batshit. My DM is not redeeming herself as a GM as I had hoped and is making me feel crappy.

I over compensate on affection for my DD but worry more about providing DD with routine and appropriate discipline.

Anyway me me me. Sorry for the GINORMOUS post, I felt it's finally time to de-lurk and didn't want to miss this boat. I'm up in the deckchairs area cutting up the limes for gin if anyone wishes to drop by.

Haven't read the old thread but definitely a thread for me!
Me and DP been NC with his father for a few months now after a whole lot of police intervention. Long story short the man is an evil, manipulative bastard. He's put my family through hell.
To top it off I've got to see him in two weeks for another lot of meetings. Oh the joy.

Oh wow, you just wrote my life. Isn't it strange how similar they all are?
This though:
I am conscious of putting people out or being annoying so could never eg call a friend just for a chat. only to make an arrangement. I need 'an excuse'. I'm a shit friend

This is a script that you have learned, you are a shit person and a shit friend. You're not a shit friend, you are someone who has been emotionally abused for years and years, not supported. The inability to be close to people and to trust people and to be a burden on people, it is a defence mechanism and it was what kept you safe for so long. Unfortunately in order to have a happy life you have to release the defences a little bit now because you do need support, you do need to rant to a friend and know you will be trusted. This is the crux of the matter with all of us and it is how we handle this issue that determines how happy we will be in the future. Don't feel bad or feel you are a shit person, a shit friend. Abused people act weird and distant. I'm not saying blindly trust new people, we have to very very careful who we let into our lives. But you can start by changing the way you describe yourself. You are still being abused even with LC. All I can say is just keep reading and sharing here if that is where you feel comfortable right now. The more you read about how others have handled their situations the better. It will make you more conscious of what behaviour is acceptable. Make connections where you feel comfortable doing so. Good job in breaking the lurking silence for starters, make mine a double :)

Yy to the shit presents! Mil used to buy 3yo dd1 cardboard coasters... wtf? Or toys far too old for her, with tiny bits. I really think she doesn't understand generosity, you have to take interest in other people to choose a gift they might like. Dp's whole family are very "but you haven't told me what you/dcs want" , so not only do I have to buy presents for my own family, I have to find things for others to buy. We use amazon wishlist now, but sometimes get "I'm not buying that!".

Pils definitely did the divide and conquer, dp is the sg, his dsis was gc and then became a sg as dbro was born and became the gc. So horrible, playing dcs off against each other.

dogdays Thanks.
Bloody hell, that was quick, I delurk and you've been kind and made me cry. I've been writing that megapost for about 2 hours not really knowing what to say but feeling I must be able to say something here of all places.

Its such a relief to offload and that someone gets it. Thank you. Tho I am sorry that you do! Its crap slogging away with these feelings isn't it.
Do you feel like you're making progress with it?

I feel like NC (with DM at least) might be a way out of the bog I'm in, but don't feel ready for an emotional showdown right now. For now it's been really helpful to read other's experiences.

Am slowly realising that my DM can't change even now she's a GM. It's very painful to see that, but a relief to begin to accept this fact, in a wierd way.

Cheers then. Here's your double. And cheers to all of you setting sail on the good ship Batshit. And lurkers. Cheers.