DRY 12

[HowBadIsThisPlease]

Old thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2584735-DRY-11?

The thread for people who want to kick the booze

vxa, sorry to hear about your crap day.
I hate that scratchy horrible "AGH FAT!" feeling - but I bet you're not.

Just one last thing I will say on the Halle thing - I did not accuse Halle of being dishonest - what I mean is, my honesty is obviously not considered appropriate here. Which I get. That's ok but I am not really comfortable with not being able to say (not rudely, but clearly) why this isn't working for me. So fair enough - just asking whether anyone feels differently and might like a different dynamic elsewhere?

"You all, and I, could be in Halle's shoes in a few short strides."

I know.

Matronlittle

"The loudest scream at the train wreck is not necessarily from the most injured person."

Quite. But is the answer to tell them to shut it and find another train?

• no one said "shut it"
• no one said "find another train". They said "what about this train, on this platform, which is right here?"
• the issue isn't whether it's 9 glasses of prosecco or 15 pints of tennants super and some pills. the issue is whether the person is saying "I need to stop" or "It's fine, I just need to calm it down a bit"

• no one on here (or anywhere) is qualified (or has the right) to turn a "i just need to calm it down a bit" into "I need to stop" person. So I wouldn't do anything to try to make that happen.

BUT

without meaning to, people CAN turn "i need to stop" people, into "i just need to calm it down" people and it is damaging.

It isn't a judgement on a person not being good enough or anything like that, just: why here? Why pick this one place?

Good question and one that has generated significant thread activity.

It's a dilemma does one protect their tiny ball of sobriety with everything they have or do they open themselves to engaging with another to support them and risk losing their own fight.

Howbad, you yourself actually just posted

"Look, Halle, I really don't want to hear this. "

Yes, which is direct, but not abusive, which "shut it" is.

If engaging with someone else who is fighting a hard battle, risks your own sobriety then don't do it. #1 priority has to be sobriety protection for oneself, but ideally not at the expense of taking away a platform from someone else.

Howbad, my paraphrase was to indicate the sentiment of your message.

I am going to say this once and I am going to be blunt. howbad I am 100% behind you with what you say. You are absolutely not out of order and I will support you whatever. I think the words you used were spot on. This is a fight or flight situation and I am determined to fight for my sobriety.

halle You say "we can be dangerous to ourselves and most of the time don't even know it until we are told the next day". I say you are being dangerous to me and others on this thread and I am not prepared to engage with you any more. I am not able to support you at the moment because your issues are too big and to be frank I don't want to.

Personally I find your postings attention seeking and self indulgent.

I am sad that the dynamics of this wonderful board have been upset by one person but I am not prepared stand back and watch.

I don't want to have to set up a new thread but if that's what has to happen I am with you Howbad

Drug addiction and alcoholism are diseases. Victim-blaming, much?

Disgraceful.

Im sorry you feel in attention seeking. Im genuinely not. I had hoped being here would maybe put me on the right track to wanting total abstinence. Just reading your stories may have swayed me. I already said sorry loads of posts back and I also said I would not discuss my drinking (if I decide to do it) in here at all. I just wanted to keep up to date with how many days we were all doing AF and also it's interesting to read what others do to help themselves as this is just the beginning for me and im feeling lost x

" I promise that if I fall off the wagon or have intentions to drink I won't be posting about them on this forum"

Written by Halleberry. FFS get off her case.

"Howbad, my paraphrase was to indicate the sentiment of your message."

No, your paraphrase hugely changed the import of my message. I made an "I" statement about what I feel about things being said; I can't be here if this is the kind of thread this is, basically. That is entirely different from an abusive order to someone to shut their face. If you can't tell the difference I completely understand why you find my threads so upsetting. But there honestly is a difference, a radical difference.

Halle, I want you to get the help you need and I really admire you for facing up to big things and coming online to get some help. However, we are really not in the same place at the moment and your philosophical stuff about the nature of alcohol and drug use is really bothering me. I hope that it's clear I have nothing against you and don't blame you for the situation you are in. but I don't want to come here and have to listen to stuff about the nature of alcohol abuse from someone who, right now, just can't see a way out of it. Because you are talking with too much authority about stuff that isn't where I am (or want to be)

Thanks for your support Marry. I promise I had no ill intentions coming here and posting and I feel awful they feel im a danger to them I just don't know where my head is at right now x

This is now becoming a negative thread which im not sure I want to be part of. Whichever way you see it, Halle professional help is needed for your withrawal of pills and alcohol and there are way rounds not getting social involved.

Now unless this thread goes back to being the positive sobriety, alcohol abstinence thread that it was then I'd rather a new one was set up.

Marry "This thread for a while seemed like a place for women who were just drinking a but too much. Not full on dependence"

That's not my understanding at all. If this is a thread for people drinking just "a bit" much but without what you call "full on" dependence I am obviously in the wrong place. Unless you call 1-2 bottles of wine every night a bit too much and not being able to abstain for more than a few days as not amounting to dependence ?? I was drinking way too much and was dependent physically and psychologically and still am although I have now achieved 37 days dry.

For the record I reported Halle's posts because I wanted MN to suggest sources of professional support.

I don't mean to speak with authority. Of course im no expert. I only came on here a few days ago to say I think I have a problem I don't know diddly squat what foot to put forward now. Anything I say is opinion and not fact x

I didn't take your posts to be "speaking with authority" either, just your own personal thoughts. Sheesh.

I won't post. I would like
Your thread to go back to what it was and im so sorry for any upset. Good luck to all and take care. Keep
Going with what you're all doing. You should be so proud. I wish inwas as far im as you in my journey. Take care

PM me anytime Halle.

What a sad outcome. Fucking shameful.

Vxa2 not that this should be a competition but your drinking isn't quite in the same bloody league as the issues facing Halle. That's not to say that it's not important to stop, or increasing dependence, but she is in BIG trouble. And this thread seems to be for people whose drinking is out of hand, not piss-the-bed benzo dependent people who don't know where to start.
Compassion and understanding is needed. And she didn't get much here, clearly.

howbad, the answer to your question is yes. I would like an honest, sober thread.

Halle and Marry I'm sorry this has become ugly.

This thread for a while seemed like a place for women who were just drinking a but too much. Not full on dependence. Then up pops someone with BIG substance issues and the associated terror that throws up, and she doesn't fit neatly into the shape of the drinker on this thread. It's a shameful attitude.

I profoundly disagree with all aspects of what you have written Marry. Firstly I don't think most of the posters here were drinking 'a bit too much'. From what I have read most were drinking between 70 and > 150 units of alcohol a week, That's a minimum of 7 x the maximum recommended amount for women. That drinking was causing blackouts, accidents, physical ill health, emotional distress, marital breakdown, possibly criminal behavior ( driving whilst over the limit anyone) and untold distress and unhappiness to the posters and their families. That is a SERIOUS alcohol problem that can lead to liver failure and death.

Second, yes I agree with you Halle has serious substance misuse problems. Trouble is Halle doesn't agree. She says she is 'fine'. She says she 'needs' the valium or unspeakable things will happen to her. She says - with pride - that she can take 100mgs of valium and er husband doesn't even notice. And I am telling YOU that that degree of substance misuse needs real life professional support, not 'hun' and kisses on the end of thread whilst enabling that person to continue in their denial. Halle has said she does not want to abstain. All I said is that this tread was for people who DO want to abstain. And if Halle seriously wants help, she will contact her local drug and alcohol team and engage with her GP to manage her benzodiazepine addiction. Which SHE has said she is not prepared to do. So stalemate.

I disagree its a shameful attitude. I think its a realistic attitude, Halle has admitted to lying to HCP to get extra valium, she has point blank refused to engage with her GP in case her supply is reduced and she has said she doesn't want to stop drinking. To me supporting those attitudes is irresponsible and potentially dangerous.

There IS A THREAD that supports people who are not yet ready to stop using. That's the place to get support and gentle challenge.

The thread for people who want to kick the booze

Marry, I haven't been on this thread as long as some but even I can see that your posts assessing the "depths" of people's problems on here are way off the mark. I can remember off hand several posts from people talking about why they need to stop drinking that go well beyond "I think I might have stumbled at the vicarage tea party".

I think you are coming from a great place in standing up for Halle, but I think you're missing a bit what this is really about. I think you are seeing this as a "hounded victim" situation when it isn't actually about that.

Compassion and understanding are needed for all of us. Your righteous fury, like I said, definitely comes from a good place, but the most violent terms of speech have all come from you on this issue. It's ok, (I think) and legitimate, to disagree, and to speak up for yourself, and sometimes this can feel very challenging to others who need or want different things. But that's not necessarily an attack on anyone.

You seem to think it isn't ok for some of us to speak up for what we need or want, and you seem to conflate doing that with some very nasty attitudes and behaviours. This is very problematic for me - for my use of the thread - because I don't want another Babes. I don't want another "sure you're fine hun" space. It doesn't help me, and I'm not the only one.

I actually don't think it helps Halle much either, to be honest. But obviously I'm only guessing.

Halle, Marry, everyone. I wish you all the best. I think there is room for disagreement and honesty without anger.