Let's Get Ready! It's Dating Thread 103

[DrFoxtrot]

The Rules:

1. The first rule about the dating thread is you don't talk about it with people you're dating.
2. Develop a thick skin.
3. Do not invest emotionally too soon.
4. It's all BS until it actually happens.
5. Trust your gut instinct.
6. People vanishing, lying & being generally weird is not your fault.
7. You are the prize-they should be trying to impress you.
8. If it's not fun, stop.
9. Loo update is mandatory.

10. No dating the thread. 11. Read Why Men Love Bitches (aka WMLB), and take from it what you will. 12. Don't serve up moose burgers on the first date (although this is still in debate right now) 13. Matthew Hussey also very useful. And very easy on the eye even if you don't find him any good. 14. IF THEY SAY THEY DON'T WANT A RELATIONSHIP, THEY DON'T WANT A RELATIONSHIP.

Thank you Handy. And you are right, I can't trust him after 3 dates. But if I can't, how am I ever going to the able to date anyone? I just don't seem to be able to do it without becoming a paranoid, anxious mess!
Going to the gym. I will take my phone but won't be checking it obsessively. There's no point, he won't be online.
I am not even sure if I do like him anymore. I had a good time with him at the weekend but his behaviour since has really made me doubt him. I just wish I could see him sooner than a week Sat to work out what I do feel.

There's a what the fuck bench ? is there room for a little one on it?! budge up there.

I am looking forward to going out with the very uncomplicated 29 year old.

Hang on. Think I've hurt his feelings by being so frank with him

Evening team daters.

freaky you are going to drive yourself mad. Sorry but you are. I always assume most of the world is on whatsapp and am pretty surprised when people aren't. Is it possible that some of his friends/ colleagues/ family have now seen him online more and as a result are communicating with him via that channel?
Reality is that he could be chatting with other women. He could have been chatting with other women the whole time just not via whatsapp. I have three messaging services. Whatsapp, viber, telegram as well as normal texts.
My point is that It could be completely innocuous and you're twisting yourself into knots. Channel the fabulous you. This isn't the freaky we know and love. Get your chilled vibe back and he too shall slip back.

jollyx ugh. EVERYONE has down days etc etc. No one is ever upbeat all the time but that sounds a little draining tbh.
Let me ask you a question to counter some of your concerns. What are the amazing things about Karmic? (And saying you're exclusive doesn't count as that's not about him as a person)

Oh 314 .
I think he's lying. It's a status. I haven't met one person on OLD who did what they said on the tin. I'm sure the honest individuals are out there, I just didn't find them. Sorry it's made you feel shitty.

Welcome asking and dotty.

asking I don't follow dating etiquette per se. In your situation it would depend entirely on how much I enjoyed the first date and how much I wanted to see them again. If it was lots and a definite I would say so and ask outright if they were up for arranging something. If they didn't bite, I'd stop messaging, delete details and move on.

gasT how long have you and MrIT been seeing each other?

waving what have you decided re the meeting the kids? Have you given it more thought?

Haven't gone to the gym yet!
Sassy, he could be messaging people all over the place, I know. But it's just this weird being online for a few minutes after sending me something offhand that makes me . If he was on and off whatsapp all day (as I am) then I wouldn't give a fuck, it's just this odd pattern coupled with the change to tone of message (and there is no mistaking that) that concerns me.
And I know I am going to drive myself mad. It really worries me. Which worries me. Fucking anxiety!

Would it be awful to suggest meeting up on bank holiday Monday?

Freaky BH Monday is good :) Whyever did you not suggest it before?

Sassy, I've only had 2 dates with MrIT but we've been talking since Christmas, just never got around to meeting up. He's been perfect at messaging until yesterday. I'm sure he's just really busy (what with being an IT director of a huge company with 200 staff under him) and he did tell me he was out with a client tonight. I hate this insecurity.

Anna thanks for your honesty. When I see it typed like that......... it's hard to know how I allowed it.

It's hard to acknowledge in the moment of discovery but overall it's better. By tomorrow I'll have digested it. Things go through my system properly if I know what exactly I'm dealing with.

Mine was a tough post 314 I'm not usually someone who would allow that sort of thing either but we start out with good intentions and then find ourselves up to our neck in it. I've done it.

Process it but don't forget to forgive yourself too.

Thanks all. You have nailed it Sassy and Anna, I guess whether Karmic is worth the effort is the main question here. I so wish it were still easy and relaxed Freaky! But if we are to build a deeper connection, we will have to roll up our sleeves and do a little work. Maybe that will be enough (?) or maybe it will turn out to be mission impossible, I dunno.

Maybe I could also plonk myself back on the smitten bench, stick my head in the sand and hold off on these questions for now. It has been 6 dates ffs. But then I do like him and I hope it will work out in the end. We have different personalities, that is true, but his is bloody lovely.

You are right Sassy it is time for a good ole pro/cons list.
Here are the pros: he is genuinely a nice person. He is kind, caring, eager to help/please, attentive to people's needs. He is supportive. He is honest. He listens and cares about what I am saying. He has strong values, is respectful and could call himself a feminist. He is interested in self improvement. He is playful and kind of goofy. He is smart, driven and has a pretty good career path ahead of him. I like how his mind works. He is uncomplicated. He is handsome. The snogging is off the charts good. I am 100% sure the sex will be too once he the novelty wears off and he does not get well.. "overly excited" (his words) anymore. Having him around feels good. I am making myself feel meh.

Cons - he is not the MrRight I had pictured in my head!! He is not very into music or cinema or food or wine or current affairs, which does not leave much room for conversation. (But then he is happy to stare in my eyes, lovesick puppy style, for ages. I can't.) He is not adventurous - though not to the point of refusing to come along with me. He likes his comfort too much for my taste. He is a conformist. He lacks self esteem. He does not challenge me.

I guess all in all he is not comfortable stepping outside his comfort zone where as I am freaking out at tapping into the inside. And yep, Anna you are so right, him putting me on a pedestal is part of the reason why I am so reluctant to pour my heart out to him and also why do not feel challenged. The pedestal has to go!!!

Sorry to use y'all for therapy but thank fuck you are there

Cheers

So MrIT is forgiven, he's on the train home and messaging perfectly again. He's just told me I have class

Thanks Anna. I thought I had a high bar as well! I do appreciate it.

I can see in my email that there are about four messages to reply to on okcupid later The intelligent handsome guy, there's no 'pop' in his messages. Back. Forth. Back. Forth. It's like a really polite slow game of lawn tennis in the 1950s that's been going on for a few nights now.... Can't see it walking off the screen. But who KNOWS. If he suggested meeting I'd say ok. He could be a bit more charismatic in real life.

Half Dutch guy, I never got back to him. That coffee is not happening. I don't know why I said yes to that. No.

Ocelot, cos I have DS and it would mean palming him off on someone (and it would feel like that...) plus would seem too desperate to suggest it now.

So, I still know that the best thing to do is to hang on, keep busy and wait till next Sat and see how I feel when I see him in person. And if the messaging really doesn't pick up before then, and I'm really not feeling it, I'll cancel. And survive.

Had a heart to heart and glass of wine with my poor mum who now knows more about my sex life than she probably ever wanted to (sorry Mum!)

And seriously thinking about some form of therapy because I know that my reaction to this whole thing is far, far from reasonable.

I really hope that I'm back on the swooning bench by next Sat, going on about his lovely blue eyes and gorgeous accent.

I haven't replied to the offhand message of 6.30pm. Really don't know what to say to it and he can do a bit of bloody work if he wants this 4th date!

JollyX I think in my shoes the overly-smitten puppy dog eyes would bother me most? It would keep me guarded and feel like a lack of challenge.... (kinda ironic given my CI situation haha).

Then again I'm not you. Some of those things are not dealbreakers.

To simplify things a little.... which single thing is the thing that bothers you most??

Jolly, does he acknowledge that he has low self-esteem?

Freaky I envy you that you can even slightly confide in your mum. My mum would just tut me for being stupid, tell me I brought it on myself, behave properly, find a man who'd commit and not to be cheap, sleeping with men who don't want to marry you She'd remind me I had two children like I can ever forget that

Oh and while she had me there, glum, to stunned to talk, she'd remind me to cut my hair, it's too long it's not, and that at my age I need to cut down on wine.

Freaky I don't think your reaction is far, far from reasonable.
You started talking and all seemed good. You went out and all seemed good and he kept up the frequent messaging. Then you had the talk and he said he was 'rolling with it'.
You've put time, hope, emotions and an expectation of decency.
Your fears about Whatsapp and contact are understandable.
Rolling with it meets his needs but does it meet yours? Look after yourself.
If rolling with it is not for you then you can always roll off it.

Yup 314 he does. I think it was even in his OKC questions, so he kind of owns it (?). PS - Bear is a prize ass and that has nothing to do with you. He is a SAHP remember!

The puppy look does have that effect on me Handy, yes - I think it also puts a lot of pressure on me to figure out my shitload of anxieties sharpish because the last thing I want to do is lead him on. But the biggest problem is the pedestal. He has built up this idea of me and, although I have very much been myself with him, I am uncomfortable with letting him in. Even having him in my apartment kind of stresses me. How is the "processing CI" going?

Freaky I do not think him being online is totally weird - my whatsapp stays online for a while after I close the window if I do not exit properly. The change of tone is more annoying - but that may just be Bacon's maintenance mode?

'ProcessingCI' is kinda weird. I seem to feel calm and more comfortable. Even though he only fricking nodded when I told him he made me feel unspecial last week. Plus he told me his ex is 'one of the few people he feels completely comfortable with' - who the hell says that to their new gf!!??!! Why am I alright with this???

Am a bit perturbed and worried I have sold out on all my principles/am happily accepting meagre crumbs all of a sudden. BUT at the same time, last night I was much more real and I see him in a more realistic light. And it felt more 'normal' to be spending time with him. And he knows all my skeletons now (I told him I'm in therapy) I think I'm sort of delighted he articulated that I feel vulnerable and gave me a very sweet and lovely hug. But.... Is that enough???? We exchanged some funny messages today.

It's all weird. My therapist isn't brilliant with the relationship aspect of things, e.g. she has no idea about OLD. Can't figure it out. Hence my place on the WTF bench!!

Thanks Anna. All that stuff you say is true but my reaction is not quite normal. I am familiar enough with my anxiety now to now what's a normal level of worry/concern and when it tips over to something that makes me feel like I can't cope with everyday life and that's where I have been today for a bit.

But although I can recognise the feeling, I can't always understand if the way I interpret a situation is "correct" or due to my anxiety so I really do appreciate your saying that it's understandable, that really helps me to get a grip on it. It has gone from swooning bench to maintenance mode and that's going to be disconcerting to anyone I suppose!
Rolling with it was making me feel better, I think that's a sensible view for after 2/3 dates and I hope that I will be able to do that. And he has been decent..The worst he's done is cool his contact a bit but that could be for any number of reasons.

314, my mum's a bloody star! Apart from the odd comment about the effect of my moods on DS, she's very supportive and helpful in a practical way. And even told me tonight about how I would over invest in relationships when I was in nursery! Apparently, I have never been able to do the multiple iron thing...

Anyway, Handy, Jolly, budge up on the WTF bench...hope this shit gets sorted out soon!

Handy, you just called yourself CI'S girlfriend...is that how you see things now? I don't know if you are accepting crumbs or just accepting CI how he is. Tricky one.
Jolly, Karmic sounds lovely and he'll make someone a brilliant boyfriend...but I am not sure it's you. You need someone with more ooomph. Do you respect him?

Oh god, sorry Jolly, I just read that back and it sounds way harsher that I intended. I just meant that I think you need someone to challenge you or you might not respect him. Especially with the whole putting you on a pedestal thing.

Morning all

waving exciting! Make sure you keep us in the loop and report back!

freaky I'm so glad you know at some level that this anxiety is a little unreasonable. It really is. What you need to try and figure out is a) what proportion of this is caused by him changing his tone with you and b) how much is anxiety you would be feeling in any new potential relationship.
It's horrible when they pull back/ change, especially after DTD. So don't underestimate the impact of that and cut yourself a little slack. But equally he has a lot of power now and you categorically need to take that back. Emotionally and mentally. I wouldn't see him on bank holiday, not a chance. He's pulling back and you offer him a date sooner? Nope, rewarding poor behaviour by doing that as soon as I'm concerned. He's not worthy.

handy what's with the comment about being comfortable with his ex???? What's the deal there? Who broke it off with whom?
I wouldn't ever make a comment like that (even if it was true) to someone I had started dating. Red flag for me. I'd think I was rebound material (which is fine if that's what I wanted...and was a IDWAR).

jollyx i think you are spot on re the pedestal. I couldn't cope with the pressure of that but it's not necessarily a deal stopper.
I have a question for you. Many of the qualities you have listed: openness, honesty etc etc are elusive qualities we all seem to be looking for via OLD.
Are you sure you don't have a type? Perhaps go for alpha males? IME the alphas are the ones more likely to be playing mind games and NOt being honest. What I'm trying to ask is is this him? Or is this you normally going for a type? And if you go for a type, is he different to that type?
Does that make sense?

gast do you like MrIT?

Sassy re CI and the comment re his ex. He was the one that ended the marriage! And started a relationship with someone he met through her! And that relationship lasted a year. And finished three years ago. He's met the infamous '17 women' since then.... So I'm not a rebound. I just can't work out whether this is part of his Generally Very Very Crap Communication Skills. Or I am just being deliberately fed crumbs, and having red flags waved in my face, and should just be running for the goddarn hills.....

Handy, that is pretty cold, to end your marriage for somebody you met through your wife. Would he have had any comprehension of the extra pain that would have caused? It sounds like his emotional range isn't that deep or wide.

I would think about the ways he could be more reassuring and affectionate, and then put it to him straight. Can you be more affectionate? can you ...? and if he agrees to try see how it goes. If it provokes a reaction or a response it'll be good I think. He'll know you're not just number 17.

waving thanks, {brew] I only discovered yesterday and already I feel like it's less shocking, the the fact that either he left off the ''with you'' OR .... he is prepared to mislead women in the future. FRESH on the heels of witnessing how he hurt me he made that decision, so he has quickly sunk in my estimation.

I had this high regard for him still when I walked away and facing up the facts helps me. I feel further along than 2 weeks and one day.