would you?

[hurtandconfued2016]

Just wondering my ex asked (more like demanded) me today when we where registering our daughter when he could see the kids again. Hasn't seen our son in a month and only met his daughter today (2 weeks old). I said that he couldn't take new baby away on his own I would need to be there whilst he is seeing her. He went mental at me and has now not bothered to make plans to see them tomorrow.
My question is would you give your 2 week old away for hours? I suggested going to soft play or something and we could rotate with the kids so we didn't have to sit near each other but he said no to that too..

That's up to him then if he chooses not to finish emptying it and to carry on paying council tax! Shouldn't come out of your pocket.

I'd try very hard NOT to send DS in clothing they've bought, then. I know that might sound petty, but so is keeping the clothing just because they paid for it!

I think part of the problem is that the courts operate under the policy that non-resident parents are going to do the 'right thing'. To some extent I understand, they must be 'neutral' and not assume that either one or the other parent is 'the bad guy'. Problem is that because of that policy some resident parents and the children are disadvantaged.

As far as what he's paying, if they aren't living in the house then the DC are not deriving any benefit from the money, are they? Paying for the house benefits you and him (i.e. the house doesn't get foreclosed on) but that doesn't put food in DS's mouth nor nappies on DD's bum, does it? Maintenance is to provide for the child, and the child doesn't benefit from a mortgage paid on an 'empty' house.

I hope you're keeping records of what you've paid, you're going to need them when the time comes to split any profit from the house! And do insist on your fair share.

Okay so my ds came back today. Ex received my lawyers letter yesterday.
I put the contact book in his bag along with a pen and instructions on what to do.
When ds came back did he have the book filled out?? NO!!!
I am livid
Across - I didn't send him in anything they bought and I won't be now I can't afford to keep replacing things it's ridiculous!
With the house my lawyer has stated nothing has to be removed or replaced or fixed without my acknowledgement and that I will be taking half of the profit if there is any.

You can't make him do this if he doesn't want to. Make a note, but say nothing. Don't rise to it.

How's potty-training going btw?

Re: clothes I hope they don't keep clothes you've bought as well. Honestly the pettiness ...

I know but he can't tell me when he was last fed? Has he ate? Has he had medicine? That's all I'm asking him the general care of ds!
We have put a stop on the potty training it seemed ds didn't know when he was peeing so seemed like the 2 of us were just getting frustrated.
Yes they do its very annoying it's just frustrating as I provide clothes for my ds so they don't have to buy anything and if they keep the stuff m going to end up with nothing

Yes, it sucks and it would be better for DS if he cooperated but you can't change things, just do the best you can when DS is with you. I would query though if there is medicine involved. Mind you, one time one of my DCs had been ill exh refused to have her so I have no experience.

Blimey so they keep extra clothing too! Would you send him with no change next time as obviously they're stockpiling.

Yep best to wait if he isn't ready. He'll get the hang of it soon enough when he is. Does it affect nursery or will they still take him?

I agree, don't pack anything and I hope you don't provide the nappies as well. You will have to take legal advice but I would be tempted to stopping access until everything is ironed out and agreed, he will have to go to mediation then. That's probably a reactionary response though.

They don't answer me when I speak to the. Even if I say hello they don't reply that's why the book was put in place so they didn't have to speak to me.
Nursery will still take him I just wanted to get it done before he starts.
No I was providing medicine and nappies but I stopped giving him the nappies because money is very tight right now.

This was the lawyer that told me to do the book then we don't have to communicate which is annoying because he isn't following that now? I'm not asking for small chat I just want to know how my ds has been.
Well I have put mediation to him again so shall see what his reply is.
My lawyer wanted to stop overnights if he didn't fill out the book or get the bed from the house

He is so stupid! Looks like he will miss out on sleepovers then!

Can you sit down and figure out what clothing they've kept? Write it down as best you can from memory and keep it as an 'inventory'. Then next pick up, you send no clothing (or just what's needed) and a polite note with "You have XX shirts, XX shorts/trousers, XX pjs, XX jacket/sweater of DS's that have not been returned from prior overnights. You therefore have sufficient clothing in your possession for DS's overnight stays'. I'd actually probably go so far as to describe the items. You aren't asking for the 'things they bought' back, you're simply saying they have enough clothing for DS at their place. If you do send anything put in the note 'please return (describe clothing you're sending) when you bring DS home on (day)'.

I'd also send DS in neat, clean 'play clothes' rather than a 'nice outfit'. I'd be willing to bet they return him in the exact same clothing you send him in. And I'd continue to send him in those same clothes each time.

Just write a note in the book with the date and 'requested information not provided, XX refused to speak to me'. Brief and factual. And continue to send the book, annotated for each time this happens.

At this point neither he nor his parents have to do the book nor speak to you. Until there is a court order signed by a judge it's all just 'requests' sent on your behalf by your lawyer. But as long as you are polite and reasonable in your requests (which you are), it will NOT look well for him in the judge's eyes if they aren't at least doing a minimum bit of cooperating.

I think it's a bit of giving him/them enough rope, iyswim. Patience, patience. I think if you just bide your time and bite your tongue you'll be pleased with the results in the end!

Across- yeah I could easily do that with the clothes ( I really don't have much clothes for ds that fit him and I can't afford to buy him new ones yet). So the items they have kept I can easily describe.
Well when they dropped ds of I always make sure he says goodbye and bows kisses I never just close the door on them until he has said bye. I said hello to the both of them when they picked ds up 2 of our mutual friends were there and they both completely ignored me. The 2 friends were mortified.
I know he doesn't have to do it but it's not really asking the world or anything it's so frustrating. I only have one more visit planned for ds then nothing! We are supposed to have an 8 week rota in place but he has refused to give me his new rota and told me to just switch rotate the one I have already but my problem is he didn't see ds for the month of March!

Just out of curiosity, do you happen to have a video camera or cell phone video you could set up nearby? I'm not sure it would be useful in a legal setting, but it might be helpful to have a couple of minutes of footage showing you being polite and them freezing you out. If you think they'll lie about the way they behave, I mean. It's very frustrating! And don't think for a second that they don't know and enjoy that. A good reason not to let them know it gets to you.

As far as the rota, March is supposed to be the same as May? If you don't have current info, then I'd just tuck a note (sigh, another one) into the bag or enter it in the notebook saying that you are unable to schedule visits after XX date as he has not provided the dates he is available. Or you could just schedule what is convenient for you and give him those dates. If he doesn't like it, he can provide the information you need.

What a bunch of brats!

I know for a fact they will lie. I am still very good friends with one of his cousins (She doesn't get on with his family ) She was telling me about how they have made it out the family that I have stopped him Seeing the kids how I reduced his days. How he didn't leave me I kicked him out I literally couldn't believe it and it's not just him it's his parents too!
With the camera I had started voice recording them when they came to collect ds but because they don't speak back it just makes me sound like a strange person talking to myself. The 2 friends I was with when they ignored me the other day have wrote a statement in my diary that I keep just to say what they saw and heard.

He said March's rota has to be June's rota, April rota has to be July and so on.
But he never seen the kids for the month of March. So when I asked him for his rota he said I don't need to know his updated rota I've just to accept it's the same as March.

I spoke to my lawyer and she said that I've not to mention it to him and see if he proactively asks to organise to see thee ds and if he doesn't then it will go against him in court.

I spoke to my lawyer and she said that I've not to mention it to him and see if he proactively asks to organise to see thee ds and if he doesn't then it will go against him in court.

Then that's what you do. Smart lawyer!

As far as the one sided recording, that's the point. Perhaps you think you sound silly, but the point of recording it would be that you are being polite, asking sensible and non-intrusive questions and are being blanked in return.

Across Yeah the lawyer is great she wants me to set him up to hang himself! She was really angry with his last letter calling me a liar about everything then I showed her all the proof and photos she couldn't believe it!

Yeah but could they say that it wasn't them I was speaking to.

Not if you found a way to set the camera/cell phone where they were at least partially visible. My iPhone doesn't have a light next to the lens on the back so you wouldn't be able to tell it was recording. Of course it depends on your house's set up, but it could be propped up on a side table or a bookcase and be pretty unobtrusive. Or have a friend just holding it in their hand and pretend to be reading the screen or something. A camera would be harder because they have that little light.

That's a good idea I don't let them in my house so will try and figure something out with that then I can't be made to be a bad guy again

Good idea not to let them in the house!

So tomorrow is the dreaded day ds goes to ex. I also get so worried and anxious the day before to the point I'm sick :(

He still hasn't contacted me about meeting baby either and this is his last visit that is planned. Me and my sister had an argument yesterday over she thinks that I should just give ds to him when he asks for him. (Not because he is a good dad or anything but so I can have a break as she has seen my mood deteriorate recently) but the lawyer said no rota no visits which I agree with too but don't want to look like I'm stopping contact I just want him to be more proactive

Listen to your solicitor. No rota, no visit. Don't mention anything to him/parents. See what happens. I reckon your ex doesn't really want to see DS or the baby but feels he has to. Or his parents make him. He will be looking to blame you, his parents will also look to blame you as they don't want to see he is lazy and feckless. My exh moved to another country, doesn't talk to his children and I got/get blamed for that. It's all my fault. So be prepared. But don't engage.

Does your sister seriously think letting him see the DCs when he fancies will improve your mood? I think it is misguided. The separation is still new and you have a little baby to care for. And it's not a separation you wanted. That's all likely to affect your mood. Also from your posts it sounds like you still want your ex to be someone he's not (proactive). I think maybe it doesn't help you feel better. Are you still seeing the counsellor?

Back to your ex: He clearly makes no sense if he didn't see DS in March but wants the March rota to be June's. Or is he saying he doesn't want to see DS?! If you have a written record of all of this, I would wait. If he doesn't see DS next week, fine, his problem. You can't make him. If he turns round and says ' Oh but she/you didn't let me', solicitor can write and point out (again) he makes no sense and therefore he needs to clarify. I agree, it's a nightmare, but you are paying a solicitor for exactly this reason, to help you remove yourself from the situation a bit, so let her handle it.

Yeah I'm letting him hang himself with it because if he doesn't see ds then when (if) He takes me to court it would look bad for him. I don't want me to look like I'm the one stopping him.
I wish he would stop if he didn't want to see them. If it's his parents then I would gladly deal with them instead.
Why do people think it's acceptable to treat kids/other parents thus way?

She thinks because I will get a break from ds but my thing is I have to deal with the before and after ds which is killing me seeing him so upset! She thinks it's better my ds sees his dad than not sees him as everyone should have a dad in their life.

I am they have given me more tablets to help me calm down as I'm suffering with anxiety and depression. I have the councillor today so will speak to her.

He wants March's visits to be put into June but he didn't see the kids until 29th of March! So in my eyes he isn't wanting to see ds for the month of June and if this is the case I will really need to consider contact at all because I can't have him not seeing him for 4 weeks then for 4 weeks seeing him etc etc it's not fair on ds.

Yes, talk to your counsellor. Your sister doesn't really know what she's talking about tbh. It's not looking after DS that's causing you to be upset, it's your ex being an idiot about contact.

One month on, one month off isn't on. But let the solicitor handle it or tell you what's possible. Be neutral with whoever does handover tomorrow. Don't let them get to you.

Listen to your lawyer. She knows what she's doing. Don't let your sister bring you down or put things in your head that aren't there. As far as 'getting a break' from your kids, well, lots of people don't get that and manage just fine.

As far as the rota. If he asks about June, tell him the truth. That you followed it 'exactly' and he only saw the children once in March. If he had wanted to see them more, he should have been cooperative when you asked him rather than just say 'use the previous rota'.

Just back from councilling and she is wrighting a letter of support if we go to court to say that she has seen herself how this has all effected me and the kids both mentally and physically.

I will speak to my lawyer once I get a reply from his last letter regarding it but she didn't want me to discuss contact with him so that he has to make the effort and if he doesn't then he's showing his true colours.

Yeah I love having my kids and if I need an hour or so to go to the gym my parents look after them which makes it easier. I would rather give up everything if it meant I didn't have to deal with all of this.

Yeah I don't see him asking which is frustrating.

Hi Hurt, the problem I'm seeing (unless I've missed something) is that you won't know if he is going to turn up on the days he thinks he is due to see DS. He has probably forgotten what happened in March.