Finally read "why does he do that" and learned my dh is abusive

[Mamaka]

I've only been on MN for a couple of weeks but what I've learnt here has blown my mind and opened my eyes.
I am finally reading "why does he do that" by lundy bancroft and have realised I am married to an abuser. I would describe him, from what I've read so far, as water torturer with some demand man and Mr right thrown in. I would also say it seems like low level abuse that ends up wearing you down but after something that happened this morning (after I very consciously changed my usual behaviour to see what would happen) I'm thinking that it's probably only been low level because I've always placated him and gone to him to make up after an argument.
I have to say I'm partly devastated, partly frustrated with myself (how could I be so blind when my own childhood was abusive) but very much relieved to find that I AM NOT CRAZY.
I would like support, encouragement, advice. I haven't yet made any decision about what to do.

No, my comments about kindness were in regard to what you say to your husband. In my experience, small children are quite capable of knowing their own minds (particularly if it involves what they want!).

Your children already know if he is kind. They probably are aware that he isn't. This explanation of why he has gone will make sense to them. You haven't planted that idea in their mind.

Ok. Thanks for reassurance. I seem to need a lot of reassurance on everything at the moment!
Perhaps if they already know he isn't kind, then that explains why she wasn't excited to see him. Makes sense. Also makes me sad. What does that say for the future when they'll have to have contact with him without me there to help them navigate it?
Dreading all these things and feeling really sad for my dc.

Well it all went wrong as my back got worse and worse until I could barely walk so had to cancel all work tonight and get into bed. My h turned up and announced that he was going to take the dc to his sister's for the evening. I am in so much pain I just let him.
That did not go to plan at all

Could it be psychosomatic?

It almost certainly is. Any way of getting rid of it?!

CBT, possibly.
Relaxation techniques.
Anxiety medication.
No contact.

I would love to go no contact right now tbh.
Is there a way when we still have dc to think about?

Thanks for your other suggestions. I was doing a yoga position (thinking I was making it better as it felt better in that position) then when I tried to get up I couldn't.

Just read the whole thread - so impressed with the progress you've made so far. Was thinking, re the back - maybe embrace it? As a sign from the universe/your own subconscious that you need some time to just stop and get your head round things? You seem to have been questioning yourself and kind of going round in circles and worrying about the future.

Maybe just stop and think your way back through how this happened, the clarity you had when you recognised what was happening, and the emotional strength you've found to get this far. Just deal with what is in front of you. Give your body permission to lock down and recover.

Or if all that is just breathtakingly hippy shit, drink wine and take strong painkillers and sleep!

I think limited contact is possible.

Certainly not having him in the house and sorting alternative childcare would help.

Balia I actually like all that hippy shit you've spouted I was thinking the same thing - only I've got hyperactive 2 and 3 year olds to get up for in the morning. Luckily they're going to my mum's for a couple of hours tomorrow so I will use that time to embrace it, as you say! I haven't moved from my bed since 5. You're right, it has moved at an impressive pace and I have found incredible clarity and emotional strength and found resources in myself that I didn't know existed. I should just lie here and congratulate myself really

He called this morning to say he thinks he has ASD. He's been reading about it and took an online test and scores highly.
Is this a well thought out excuse from him?
To be fair, it would add up and I've often thought he is on the spectrum and our DD too. However it still doesn't excuse his behaviour.
I told him if he's serious he needs to go and get a referral and an assessment and put effort in to sorting it all out. He's still not coming back though I may a little more kindly to him if he bothers with an assessment.

You are doing great. :)
Yes, it's not an excuse.
Yes, he should sort himself out.

Regardless of the reasons, we don't have to put up with anything that harms ourselves or our families.
He should have been thinking of how his behaviour affects all of you.

I agree and I made that point to him - regardless of his 'reason' he should still be able to have the awareness, especially after I've repeatedly told him, that his lack of empathy, communication and emotional input does harm us all and makes us FEEL abused, whether or not that was his intention. I read a great thread on here about EA vs ASD and I know that one does not equal the other and many ASD people manage to have loving relationships so if he thought this was his get home pass he was very wrong.
That being said, IF I saw him get assessed and get help and saw major improvement, I would consider giving it a little longer before making my final decision.
What kind of help can adults on the spectrum get?

I don't know specifically, but probably something regarding management.
Assuming he is on the spectrum at all. I'd wait to see an official diagnosis before assuming anything.
Have you done your own assessment of him?

How would I do my own assessment?
Yes he is going to see GP first and take it from there. I'm not fully convinced just yet. Seems a little too convenient to have just 'discovered' this possibility.

He must have filled an online test. You could try and fill one for assessing from your point of view. Or read out on descriptions and figure out if it could fit or not.

Oh I see - yes I've read multiple descriptions, before all this happened and I was querying it in my own head (both for him and DD) and again today. The descriptions DO fit. Every single part of it. However I am scared that I may end up clinging on to that to excuse his shitty behaviour and treatment of the ones he supposedly loves.
From what I can figure out: he is probably somewhere along the spectrum, and has also had (in my opinion) a really rubbish, pampered and spoiled, but emotionally neglected upbringing. His family are from somewhere (not UK) where men are entitled to act as they wish and women put up and shut up. On the other hand, DD also has certain characteristics very similar to his but because of her upbringing and the constant work I've been doing with her, she can adapt and adjust. Yes I know she's only young but I have seen her making huge effort to understand her peer group and try to fit in. I think this is called affective empathy? It exhausts her but she is reaping the benefits now - she has finally, after 2 years, made a friend at preschool. In my opinion if a nearly 4 year old can make this kind of effort then so can an adult! So it certainly doesn't excuse emotional abuse!

Google Aspergers Spectrum Quotient test - it has fifty questions.

I am more than convinced that xH is on the spectrum - so much fits. When things got better between us in terms of communication last summer, I asked him if he had ever been assessed. He basically refused to accept that this was a possibility. He scored himself really low on the test, whereas I would have scored him high.

Obviously, it would be wrong for me to question his self-perception as he is the one who needs the strategies to function in life. But he basically even ignored the basis on which I raised the issue (wanting to try to understand and improve communication) and deflected it back to me.

This really left nowhere to go. If he had pursued a diagnosis, then it would have given us some tools to work with. Whereas he did not acknowledge his part, whatever that was, and was clear he couldn't change. I was not even asking him to change. I just wanted to have more of a map to understand. Otherwise it was all me with the problems and that is never a true reflection of a marital situation.

So to your situation, I think you are right, formal assessment - this gives you the information to try to understand the situation fully. It does not give you a solution, but otherwise you are acting and making decisions without knowing the issues.

If he is diagnosed, you can seek counseling with a therapist experienced in ASD marriages. If you separate, there are websites which talk about separation and divorce when one person is AS. I did not realise the latter when we separated, but to be honest, some of the horror stories reflect my own three year long experience so far. A diagnosis is information you need, regardless of outcome of your marriage.

There is also a website Different Together for people married to people with ASD. Again, had I read it earlier than I did, I might have known what I was dealing with sooner.

And if there is no formal diagnosis, then nothing has changed since before he suggested this could be a possibility. I would be curious to know why he thought to do the test now, though.

Nonetheless, until he seeks a diagnosis, it is a side show to the day to day issues. It is not an excuse for EA. It also does not mean you need to forget the EA aspects. But it is a side show worth keeping on your radar, because if he does seek assessment and is prepared to work on aspects of communication around this etc that is a good thing, regardless of the outcome of your marriage.

By the way, DS is the same. Massive effort has gone into his social skills and working with his related anxieties. Coping with school wears him out as he is learning academically and having to learn and concentrate socially too. He does need to work on it, yes, but I am so proud that he does.

But his father looks to others to adapt and fit his needs one way or the other; and I was the kind of person who had no, or not enough, boundaries - and that was a disaster.

Romiiroo really?! I'm quite relieved to hear that this might be a genuine possibility and plays out in other marriages too. The benefit I have is that my h is absolutely desperate to come home and says he will do whatever it takes. So I can force him to see through an assessment and once he's had that, I'll have more knowledge on what I'm actually working with. Like you said, a map.
So interesting also about your ds. You must have worked really hard with him to get him to where he is. Has he ever been assessed or did you not think it necessary?
Anyway I cannot and will not forget about how unequal and unfair this marriage has felt. I keep re-reading this thread, my journal and the Lundy Bancroft book to remind myself of why we are where we are.

I've just done the 50 questions test you mentioned Romiiroo based on my knowledge of him and he scored 44 out of 50!!!

I have to say, something about your thread and your descriptions of your relationship didn't come off as clearly as EA as other dreadful relationships on this board. His willingness to go to therapy and appearing to be quite open in it, his querying if he is emotionally abusive to you, are not really typical of emotional abuse, and the ASD possibility may account for some aspects of the difficulties in your relationship. Granted, there may be no future for you together (there is another thread on here about ending an ASD relationship because they are not happy in it and are accepting that the other person can't change). But hopefully it might help the process feel less fraught and emotionally laden. It can be helpful to think of it as a 'deficit model' i.e. He doesn't have the capability, rather than active cruelty. But as you say, an overindulgent but emotionally neglectful upbringing is only going to have exacerbated the worst parts of ASD presentation.

I am going to start with the cautions, that you can't diagnose over the internet or by an internet test; but I think if you see it as a possibility from the ASQ test, and your H himself sees a possibility and is willing to go to get assessed (you can't 'force' him, but you can request it from him as a helpful pre-requisite for working on the issues in your marriage, whatever the outcome; which he sounds willing to do as he is in the mindset of trying to salvage the marriage), then this would seem a reasonable avenue to explore before taking any further steps.

In the meantime, I would personally be clear that the separation continues, in the same circumstances, until he has progressed this. For your part, you can probably call off calling the lawyers just now - the fact that you sense relief that there may be a reason for his behaviour and a way forward suggests that you are not there emotionally yet, anyway... Nonetheless, my second note of caution, I had the same wave of relief when someone suggested ASD to me (actually two people), and I started to read up on it, and it seemed a possibility - but as I said, he knocked the possibility right back at me, so it was a non-starter. To me that said, he wished to reconcile, yes, but not to question his own self. Whereas putting a marriage back together is always going to have to be a mutual endeavour. There will be aspects of your own behaviour you will need to keep working on (boundaries...)

Second point you raise, can you forget the EA? Before we had the possible ASD conversation and I realised there was no way forward, I wondered this. I think I could have worked my way through my anger and upset about the reasons for the end of our marriage if we had got to the place where we had a mutual understanding of the dynamic which had led us there and were both prepared to really engage on ways to resolve it. You can't undo the hurt, but I think realising that it was not intentional and neither of you had the tools to understand issues would be a stepping stone to a better way forward, even if you do separate in the long run. (You are not in a place to decide on this bigger question at all now; regardless, I would suggest that you still need space to yourself)

People with ASD have strengths, not only 'deficits' (google Tony Atwood, I think it is, there is a pdf he has written about this, he is a specialist in ASD; strengths would be attention to detail and planning; organisation; loyalty; structure etc - all the things which, if you are like me and spontaneous and curious in nature, can be stifling). In any marriage, parties have strengths and weaknesses and the secret to mutual understanding is recognising these and working with them to both your benefit. With ASD, it seems these aspects are much more fixed for one party. Honestly, I think it will take new experiences of working together and communicating in a healthy manner to be able to put your hurt at the abusive aspects of the previous situation behind you. And also, his efforts to ensure that you don't end up in the same position again.

So, reason for hope, I would have said, but with caution and care for yourself - and an open mind to outcomes.