Finally read "why does he do that" and learned my dh is abusive

[Mamaka]

I've only been on MN for a couple of weeks but what I've learnt here has blown my mind and opened my eyes.
I am finally reading "why does he do that" by lundy bancroft and have realised I am married to an abuser. I would describe him, from what I've read so far, as water torturer with some demand man and Mr right thrown in. I would also say it seems like low level abuse that ends up wearing you down but after something that happened this morning (after I very consciously changed my usual behaviour to see what would happen) I'm thinking that it's probably only been low level because I've always placated him and gone to him to make up after an argument.
I have to say I'm partly devastated, partly frustrated with myself (how could I be so blind when my own childhood was abusive) but very much relieved to find that I AM NOT CRAZY.
I would like support, encouragement, advice. I haven't yet made any decision about what to do.

Hang in there - you're doing brilliantly!

You haven't subjected your kids to 'a crap dad', he has. What you're doing now is breaking that cycle and giving them the chance to see that they will not have to put up with crap relationships themselves. You are showing them that men should NOT behave in the way he has.

Once we'd separated my ex actually (miraculously!) became a far better dad than he'd ever been; took time off work to collect them from school once a week, spent time with them on his access etc. text them to see how they were and stuff.

See if you can get some counselling and/or come on here to rant rather than at him. Unfortunately, ranting at him will just make him say that 'you're crazy' or whatever his favourite insult was. You'll just end up feeling bat-shit crazy yourself, because it frustratingly falls on deaf ears. So, rant to anyone but him (and the kids!). In his mind he has done nothing wrong so you will never get a genuine, heart felt apology - at best you'll get lip-service and empty promises, at worst you'll be insulted SOO much it will set your recovery back.

If all your contact with him is just essential contact about the children you will maintain the moral high ground, which is important for your self-esteem and dignity.

Just take one day at a time - you are taking baby steps in to a future of FREEDOM. Sort out practical things - council tax reduction, tax credits, bank account etc. If you are struggling for money then self refer to your local food bank, it's literally a life saver (they are often attached to a local church, where you'll get masses of support and -in my experience - no judgement). Try not to feel bitter - yes, you wasted years on him BUT you've now called time and have a lot of life left. Bitterness and holding a grudge will only punish you - it won't affect him at all. Someone told me bitterness was like me drinking the poison whilst hoping he would die!

There will be little signs of encouragement everywhere you look - you'll notice spring with excitement, it'll all look brighter because you've had blinkers on for so long. One day, when I was having a bad day, I saw someone in a t-shirt with the slogan
"Don't look back, you're not going that way" and that has really stuck with me.

It happened and it was awful but you have done the hard part, which is to see it for what it is and finish it. However, you have your beautiful children who you wouldn't change for the world, you have your sanity and now you have your freedom. Your children will very quickly get used to the new way of life, and will relish the happier home atmosphere. Being FROM a broken home is not what we wanted for our children (and is why we put up with so much for so long), but it is far better than them being IN a broken home (which is the reality of how we lived). Everything else (finances, security, career, a new partner etc) will come when needed, and when least expected, I promise.

He's only been away 3 nights and already the atmosphere at home feels different. I've had a text from him this morning saying he will bring me the car and be with the dc in the evenings this week as normal, which I'm glad to accept (despite wanting to be completely independent of him) as I hadn't found any alternative for getting to work etc. So I will have to see him tomorrow. I feel like a teenager, thinking about how I want to come across to him. Like I'm absolutely fine without him and haven't spent 3 nights crying. I want the house to be clean and dinner cooked and everything in order so he can see how I'm coping without him. But then I think, that's silly and I have to let that go because those are the exact things I used to try and do all the time for him.

Move anything (paperwork / ipad/whatever ) that you don't want him to see or take away out of the house. Either to a friends or family member or just take it in a bag with you. If he's in your home don't trust him to keep out of your room. Even lock it if you can- but he might kick off at that.

So my h hasn't been here since Friday. He came this morning so I could drop him at work and have the car. I was expecting some kind of emotional reunion between him and the dc. There was nothing.....he walked in, my ds (2) looked up happily then carried on playing, my dd (nearly 4) said daddy why are you home? My h didn't even cuddle them.
Immediately the atmosphere in the house went from happy and relaxed to tense and quiet. He even snapped at me to get a move on. I don't know why I'm surprised really, just thought there would be more effort on his part to win his way back!!

I feel like I have been oppressed for a really long time and have finally had a break from if and seen the light. I wonder if the kids feel the same? Is there a way I can find out how they feel without upsetting them or asking questions that aren't appropriate for their age?

Going to keep bumping, feel really anxious.

I think the trick is to create a calm atmosphere and talk about the day, and how it was in the morning and then ask how they felt about seeing dad and how it was for them having him in the house.
And try not to ask leading questions.

But, crucially, do not place in any way responsibility on them for him returning or not. You are the adult and you have to decide what's best for the family.

I think your children's reaction to seeing him is quite telling. More obviously, his reaction to seeing them is ... Well, I don't know many people who would behave like that.

Can you just keep the car? Does he actually need it? More than you do, that is.

What is specifically causing the anxiety? Can you pinpoint?
Need to get something to eat but will come back to post about atmosphere and kids

I think, remembering back, to when I first ended my marriage to xH, I was in a state of free floating anxiety for a good while. Mostly the anxiety was fear at what was going to happen - it was very difficult to know how he would be, because it changed from one time to the next.

Secondly, xH did come to the house for contact, and that became an issue because he essentially took it over for the time he was there (which he was of course entitled to) and i felt like you say, that it had to be as spotless as I had always maintained it before otherwise he would comment (which was one of the reasons I had ended the marriage, it was a constant pressure).

I think Jux is right in so far as you need somehow to organise your working week so that he is not in your space every day, and that you are not reliant on him for car and childcare. This keeps you pinging back and forth, and worse, on tenterhooks because you are trying to read the atmosphere when he is here/before he is coming - and this keeps you from focusing on your own needs and those of DC. The stronger you are in yourself, the less you will be bothered what he thinks or does.

It was obvious to me, also, that the atmosphere in the house was easier when he was not there; and it is still obvious to me, three years later, that seeing him at contact times triggers anxiety. He doesn't come to the house at all; we have a neutral meeting place, but these reactions are still in some way hard-wired - also the more distance you have, the more emotionally difficult it is to reconcile the oppression, to use your words, which was seen to be reasonable. I am really still working on being strong and okay myself, as the message that I was somehow not okay (and even less okay for ending things) is very limiting if you internalise it.

In terms of DC, I would not say anything just now, unless they ask. In the early days/weeks, I picked up a lot from spontaneous comments DC made, and just by observing the behaviour and atmosphere, as you did. And also, you and they need to switch off from it all too; otherwise, all you have done is increase the radius in which you operate. Sure, you can only push back the boundaries bit by bit, but be aware that you do need to do this consciously, it doesn't just somehow happen, as your H will be invested in somehow maintaining the status quo.

Thank you all. RomiiRoo your post was so helpful. Just even to know that someone knows the oppression I'm talking about. I know it sounds so dramatic, I'm finding it difficult to explain to my sister/friends what exactly has happened because unless you've been oppressed in that way you would think I was massively overreacting and being a drama queen.
A lot of this morning's anxiety was related to me not knowing how he was going to be, having my expectations pissed all over, and specifically, not knowing how to deal with the surprise bloody birthday party that was organised for me (by him) this coming weekend. How could I go and fake it the entire night? So I told him, after he'd been such a dick this morning, that we couldn't do it and he cancelled it (letting 40 people know simultaneously that something is going on with us). So I can stop worrying about that anyway.
I'm so fucking angry right now. I have no idea how to organise myself so that I'm not reliant on him because it's almost unmanageable. I'm in shock at his complete lack of remorse or effort. I have no idea what to say to the kids after this morning. I've just stuck on a film and I'm waiting for my sister to come over.
Thanks again everyone. This thread is becoming a bit of a lifeline xx

I've had to cancel my relationship counselling (I was going to go alone) because he didn't come and look after the kids as he said he would.
Would the freedom programme help in my case? I think he is emotionally abusive.

I'd think the Freedom Programme would certainly help.

As for him not showing up, you must stop relying on him. It just keeps you dependent on him and his moods anyway.
If you really need counselling, then ask a friend, or find a baby sitter. He should be out of the picture in terms of your support.

I am very tired, so I only write quickly.

Most people will note the party is cancelled and reschedule to do something else, or relax. If you get questions you don't want, you don't need to explain beyond saying there are some reasons the party had to be cancelled and you are sorry for the inconvenience. Far better than going ahead given the circumstances.

I think maybe try and get individual counseling and do so in time you don't rely on him. It is very early days, so you can't sort it out all at once. The main thing you need, by the sounds of it, is practical support with childcare, and that may need to be the focus right now.

Are you eligible for childcare tax credits if you get paid childcare? What kind of paid childcare is available? How do you sort it? These are the questions to start with.

I keep trying to figure out tax credits and council tax reduction, they need a forwarding address for him, I guess I will just give his sister's even if it does mean they will have to pay more council tax.
I'm quite lucky in that I have a couple of good friends who I do childcare swaps with and they live very close by. It would mean telling them more than I'm happy to talk about though.
I also seem to have become the subject of gossip. He cancelled my party in a very public and abrupt way with no tact or thought. Immediately people started texting and calling to see if everything was OK. I really hate this.

He just called and said he would look after the kids tomorrow if I would let him stay. I said no fucking way and hung up. I'm obviously making progress.

Go you! Yes, give his sister's address - that's where he's living, isn't he, after all?

I think there will be those who are texting out of genuine concern, and those who want the gossip. In days to come, you will find out who is who.

Most will be concerned, as they are your friends. But it is probably helpful to just reply vaguely to indicate no, not okay, not up to talking till you work out where your support lies.

There is no shame in your position. It is a hard path to walk, but staying in an unhealthy marriage is harder still. People will have views - you are the one living your life.

Yes, he is using childcare as a way back in the door- luckily quite obviously! You are right not to let him. He looks after the children because they are his children, not as leverage. He can start getting arsey and say he won't do it, which is why you need alternative options - thereafter, you agree a contact schedule which suits DC, which would hold up in court as in their best interests. How you then organise your work is not dependent on him.

For official purposes, give the information you have, which is that he is at his sister's.

I think already it is quite obvious who is showing concern and who wants gossip. A friend who rarely phones me phoned yesterday, I wonder why. I didn't pick up, just sent a text saying couldn't talk. Another friend is badgering me to go round for a "catch up". It all feels so fake.
H called this morning to ask if he can come and look after the dc tonight while I'm in work, and said he'd leave after, and he's sorry he tried to blackmail me into letting him stay. He sounded very sad and pathetic. I have said yes as I don't have another option for tonight. What do I have to think about, apart from removing any paperwork, kids documents, valuables etc?

Boundaries - what are they?

He leaves as agreed.
Think about physical contact - none, brief hug, peck on the cheek - he may try this at some point so be clear in advance where your boundaries are.
That he is here to see DC. He doesn't pick up household tasks unless agreed.
He may be sad, you are sad too - but right now, you want space and you would like him to respect that. Don't be pressed into discussion when he is supposed to be leaving.

Yes, I had a friend I had not seen for months show up in my office with a gift and plonk herself down and ask 'so, how are you?'. Em, busy working?

One day at a time

Ok, thanks. Going to make a list here so I'm committed!
Boundaries: no physical contact. No discussion. He may apologise if he wants (unlikely!) but it won't lead to discussion. He will give dc dinner, bath and put to bed exactly as he always has done. No going out. If he chooses to wash up (again, unlikely!) I will not stop him!! But doing household jobs won't sway me into thinking he cares and has changed. Oldest dc is likely to ask where he's been so he is to repeat what I have been telling them - we are having time out to remember how to be kind. Although I don't know how I'd police that as I'm not going to interrogate my dc afterwards.
There are no locks on any rooms so I am planning to remove everything important and take pics of rooms as I left them so I can see if he has disturbed anything.
He leaves as soon as I return. If anything else happens I am prepared to ring 101....do I have that right if he is in his own home?

Just done my back in and youngest is in a strop and I can see a tantrum kicking off and me not being able to bend down to calm him or pick him up! Just what I bloody need right now.

I hope that your back recovers soon, and that toddler calms down

In terms of 101, it probably wouldn't be my starting point if he refuses to leave - I would be clear first of all that any progress with things relies on him respecting you and what you ask, which is right now, that he leave. This does not mean that you won't talk to him about things, it means that you won't talk to him about things right now, but when you are ready.

Then repeat 'I am asking you to leave' as necessary; without commenting or responding to what he says. You will need to discuss issues with him at some point, but right now, you are asking for space and it is better all around if he respects that.

I can't advise on the right to stay issue, I am afraid, you need a solicitor for that. If you feel physically under threat, then he should not be coming in the first place, I think - and if you begin to feel physically under threat when he is there, then yes, you should call 101. But that apart, I would try standing your own ground first (with your phone in your pocket or otherwise accessible). I personally think the fact that there are no locks on the rooms, and he is not leaving when you are asking, would be sufficient to suggest that you feel physically under threat.

I called 101 for advice about five months in, but at that stage, I had a solicitor involved, and he had been written to three times about the situation and was ignoring the requests not to come to the house, to the stage that it did unquestionably constitute harrassment. Acceptable contact arrangements for the children had been provided; as had clear plans about who lived where and finances. My solicitor was clear that if I said I would call the police, I must follow through; but I did also call 101 in advance and ask them how and if they would be prepared to respond. To which they said, yes.

In short, the best people to advise on calling 101 are the 101 team, and you are free to call them at any time, and not leave yourself in a position where you are trying to make a judgement call at XX time in the evening.

In terms of what he says to the children, that is unfortunately up to him. You have asked to separate based on the fact that you do not wish your behaviour to be controlled by him; as such, you have to accept his freedom to offer the explanations that he wishes, until such time you have evidence that his comments or behaviour with the children is harmful to their well-being.

Being kind, by the way, is subjective - if you tell him this is what you have said, then it needs some kind of clarity what kindness is - it would be easy for him to say 'but I am being kind, I am here and I want to stay with you and make sure that everything is fine....' - whereas what you really mean is respect for each other's needs and wishes.

Anyway, hang in there, you will find a way through

Such a helpful post, thanks! Really good to know I can call 101 at any time for advice. I wouldn't have thought of that. I don't feel physically under threat, never have done with him. I just didn't know how to deal with the possibility of him refusing to leave. I expect if I really stand my ground and not get dragged into a discussion (which he is not used to from me) then he will go. Also a good point about kind being subjective. It made me think, have I inadvertently been telling my dc that daddy isn't kind? Maybe that's why my dd wasn't particularly pleased to see him yesterday. Again, didn't know what else to say.