Can't do wrong or right

[SoFrustratedWithItAll]

Sorry if this doesn't make sense. There is a lot of history that I don't really want to go into. However yesterday I joined the gym as they had a great offer on, no contract etc. I'd been speaking to my DH about this for a while now, and a few weeks ago said that I would be joining the early part of March. Anyway I got home yesterday and told DH that I had signed up and you'd have thought I'd never run it past him.

On and on he went, first because it was £5 more than what I'd said it should be (it includes swimming for the kids that will more than make up for it), then because I hadn't spoken to him about it - I had...around a week ago at most. Then because with our eldest DD's hobby we are spending £60 a month now on 'leisure activities' as he put it.

The gym is for my health, I am very over weight (about 4 stone) and suffer from anxiety and depression, which although I manage quiet well now, feel this will hep even more. I also suffer from an disordered eating, which have an physical outlet will help me with (sorry for all the detail)

We still have a large amount of our monthly income going into savings, so are in no way struggling. DH feels that every bit of money that is not being spent on a necessity should be being saved for a house. I feel that if we did that we would have no fun or quality of life. It also doesn't help that DH has no interest in hobbies or friends or anything that isn't work and being at home.

I just feel at a loss over this. I've discussed it with him, he agreed to it, and yet when I actually do it, he causes a massive fight over it...and I feel like crap.

Adding to this, I am off work ill this morning, and DH seems to have wanted to continue the fight. He first asked if I felt able to get the kids ready (he never gets them ready), then when I am proceeding to do so, he starts telling me to get the younger one ready, while getting cross at our eldest. This includes raising his voice and pulling her slippers etc. off instead of him asking her twice to do it herself.

He then claims that he would have done it himself, and that he never asked me to get them ready, which to be honest is bullshit. I'm left dealing with two confused crying children, while he has a go at me... I refuse to get dragged in to it in front of the kids, and then he's all nice as pie 10 mins later.

He's out doing the school run now, and tbh I'm dreading him coming home and wish I was well enough to go into work to get out of is way.

I'm just so sick of no matter what I do, he'll take issue with it if it's not what he wants, or done his way.

Can you block him on your phone, and then unblock him later? Certainly, while you're away for work, it might be helpful to you to block his number during the times you're actually meant to be working, and then unblock during lunchbreak, reblock for afternoon and unblock again from about 6pm. I have no idea whether this is possible or practical for you, so just a suggestion.

Some years ago, I had tutorials once a month on a Saturday morning. I told dh not to call me before 1pm. Every single tutorial was interupted at least twice by calls from dh on stupid things which could wait, or which he could have texted about. The first few, I worried about turning my phone off in case something urgent happened, but after a few tutorials were interupted for silly reasons, I had no hesitation. He would ring me constantly for silly reasons whenever I went anywhere without him. I went back to work pt a year ago and am in an area where I get no signal

You´re doing great So, you´re making progress and the gym is acting as a great coping strategy ( and mind de-fogger? ) in the process. It´s your time, it´s freedom, it clears your mind, it´s where you get to be your own person, to meet with your family, chat to others and meet people. Plus it´s a time where you can properly be at peace from him given that he even harasses you at work!

Please don´t say you have your phone while you´re working out and he txts you??

Unless you really wanna go meet up with his parents then don´t go. Seriously, even if you had to feign feeling poorly! Do you get on with your inlaws generally? Or are they like him?

I hope you get to start the Freedom Prog, read up on abuse like ¨Why does he do that?¨ cos it seems he still has the ability to influence your mood and doubt yourself. Wish I could tell you to just not listen to his monotonous, negative bullshit but I think that´s something you will have to learn for yourself from the aforementioned sources.

By doing these things ( reading, Freedom Prog etc ) you will eventually change the way you think and react to his blatent attempt at controlling and manipulating you. You will see it for the pathetic drivel, coming from an equally pathetic man, that it actually is and it´s be nothing but white noise in the background.

Well you´ve gotta go away for work so he´s just gonna have to bloody well deal with it isn´t he? It´s not that he can´t cope at all! It´s the fact that he´s not gonna have you around to bully and control. You won´t be where he can keep his beady eyes on you, making you feel like shit to keep you confused, doubting yourself and on the back foot! That´s why he´s being a twat on the run up to you going away. I´m sure it´ll escalate too and he may use some other tactics to stop you going. BUt it´s all bullshit control.

I would be flipping dying to escape and get away from the claustrophobia if I were in your shoes! I know it´s not a holiday cos you´re working but it´s feel like a bloody holiday given what you´re putting up with day in day out!

I suspect the answer's yes, but I hope you didn't see his parents today. I remember loads of times where my ex set me up beforehand. This was nearly always when it involved my family or friends, not his. He would either get up late, drag his heels, and be generally quiet and miserable to unsettle me. Or, he would start to pick a fight about the people we were seeing so as to unnerve me, to make me worry about how he'd behave when we were there.

I remember coming home late one night on a train and he started spouting nasty, spiteful things about my mother - who had been nothing but kind and friendly to him. I was so embarrassed and upset. Sitting a few seats away from us was a young girl, I can see her face now, 20 or so years later. She could hear him and she looked absolutely horrified. She looked at me a couple of times. I wanted to run over and ask if I could just get off the train with her.

I feel really sorry for the young vulnerable woman I was then. I ended up going to most things on my own. He still managed to spoil things however, a glowering presence before I left and a moody little victim on my return. I'm a very non-aggressive person but just thinking about these incidents makes me want to do horrible things to him.

He didn't look so tough when he was begging me not to leave him at the end. BEST decision I ever made.

No I don't have my phone on me when I'm at the gym! It's a lovely respite.

I find the in-laws difficult to get along with. He mum can be lovely, but we just have nothing in common, and how she is, I don't know how to deal with. His dad is like a happier version of him...

I did go today, and of course DH is being lovely now...he is like two different people...the man who dated me, and then a man very similar to my father.

I have had moment like the one you described on the train dusters, it mortifying when it happens :(

I too end up going to most things along...I have said before I already feel like a single parent....though that would likely be easier as I wouldn't have to consider DH if I was...

I am really looking forward to my trip away, it will definitely seem like a holiday! However I am anxious and worried about how the kids will be while I'm away... I just hope he isn't too hard on our eldest...she only 5, yet he expects her to act like an adult :(

I hate conflict dusters, and an too empathic to a fault. He knows this, so I'm definitely an easy target to manipulate. However, when he's been chipping away for weeks, and I can't take it anymore: omg I want to do horrible things to him then.

So I have been lurking on this thread because until recently my DH was a joy sucker - nowhere near as bad as yours, yours is an order of magnitude worse. And I was contemplating leaving. I set a deadline, I told my DH that this was it or else - and as I said, things were not nearly as bad for us as they are for you. This isn't trivial, this is serious.

You need to keep posting here. Everything that happens and how it makes you feel. And then, when he makes you doubt yourself, you need to read it back and remind yourself of how it really was.

DH and I are getting somewhere now - he has done a lot of work to change. Your H has no intention of changing, he does not and will not see that he is the one who has the problem.

Protect your DCs, make your plans, get rid.

Thank you pointy the plan is to keep posting and keep reading it back. It is great record and sanity checker in among the fog. Of course I will also be making my plans and will keep on taking those small steps.

DH keeps on promising change, keeps on crying when we're at the point of separating, and he is in some ways a lot better than he used to be, which is part of the reason I'm having trouble wrapping my head round him as abusive, and why I feel so guilty and shit for what I'm getting in motion.

Is he only as better as it takes to keep you around?

Is he only changing just enough so you feel like he is making an effort, therefore you must stay. A tweak here and there so you feel guilty because he is putting so much energy into making an 'effort' and then guilt tripping you into staying?

Or is he changing because he knows how unhappy you are, and because he loves you, he is doing everything in his power to make you happy?

So it is really, really hard. I've been there. So many times when DH promised change and it never materialised - his issues are alcohol, depression and bereavement. It made him an appalling parent to two teenage DDs. We'd have a brief spell of improvement - never more than 2-3 weeks - and then it was back to square 1.

Then I told him he was going to access bereavement counselling as he said the loss of his parents was at the root of it all, and it was an ultimatum. The first session was a transformation. Not only that, but the counsellor told him all the things I had told him and he took her seriously. I wish he'd taken me seriously, I do know what I'm talking about, but oh well.

We are now a different household. DH has rediscovered the small joys in life - a little while ago, he was sitting next to me listening to music on his tablet and blissing out. Before Christmas, he would have condemned the DDs for 'always listening to music on those things'. He gets it now. He is drinking substantially less, he is rediscovering happiness - and because he is more relaxed, the DDs are more relaxed and it is all feeding on itself in a good way.

Unless your DH can do the same and show the same measure of insight, you need to work on getting out. I don't think there is much hope for your relationship, to be honest. I felt things were intolerable with my DH, so I got hardcore. Your H is far, far worse. He sounds like a not nice person at heart.

I will keep following you, I am cheering you on every step.

There is no reason to feel ¨guilty and shit¨ just because he brings on the predictable crocodile tears. This is yet another weapon in his Manipulation Arsenal to use against you to keep you there. If they were real tears of sorrow and remorse, don´t you think he would have changed by now? Realised how unhappy he made you, how sorry that he´s caused you so much heartache and changed after all these years?

If it were genuine remorse born of the acute self-awareness that he would need in order to admit he was at fault and hurt you, then why hasn´t he changed by now, or at least made efforts to?

Why has he never apologised to you for his behaviour? These tears mean fuck all cos they are pure manipulation and control. It´s him clutching at straws and scraping the barrel when he´s got bugger all left in which to fall back on because he can never find a justification for his behaviour. So he blubs as a last resort. Pathetic bastard. He´s incapable of remorse, empathy or sensativity.

You need to be wise to him. He will stop at nothing to keep you prisoner in this warped relationship. He needs the security of having you there, to fulfill his own needs as the dominant, controlling partner. If he can´t manipulate and dominate you, then how can he keep you there? He has to fulfill his needs. It´s as simple as that.

But he is warped, dysfunctional and has a skewed idea of what is a healthy relationship.

At the end of the day we don´t need a hard and fast reason for ending a relationship. All we need to feel is that we are unhappy and we did everything we could to make it right. If we are satisfied that we´ve tried 100% but the relationship still makes us miserable then we end it.

What I´m saying is there are people who are with partners who aren´t abusive but still end their relationships. You have more reason than most to end yours but you are only just realising the extent to which this marriage is toxic and totally futile. People have ended relationship for a heck of a lot less than what you are contemplating.

Try and be more in touch with your intuition. What would a happy future look like and involve? Where can you see yourself this time next year ideally? What are your ambitions? What would you like to accomplish? What would you need to feel fulfillment? What makes you happy/sad?

Just be honest with yourself, write stuff down. You can make sense of stuff that way. Imagine your life was that of a friend, what would you say to her?

I know, your all saying the same and the sensible part of me. I think the freedom programme will be invaluable, to see in real life so to speak, that other people have DH's who are just like mine - it will really hit home that it is all such a predictable script, tried and tested ways to grind me down, to remove my autonomy and to make me stay no matter what.

I also know that I will be painted the evil villain in all this when it does end. Why is there always the pull for the easier comfortable known option, I wish that I could convince all of me that I should be excited for the changes in the future, and some of me is, but then I am also terrified! Here's hoping it's like going down a zip-line - terrifying at the precipice, but so worth it at the end!

I'm so sick of my anxiety flaring up when he's around. I took the kids downstairs this morning, the same as every morning, and he asked me if I was giving them breakfast....um why wouldn't I? I do every morning... It's questions like that, out of the blue, the unpredictable weird ones that just through me for a loop.

What would he say if you said 'nope, I'm giving them dinner' ?

Stupid question gets a stupid answer.

Lol I have done that before. ..my thinking to...stupid question = stupid answer. He sulks, claims I'm in one of those moods, then it means the whole day will be unpleasant. Or if I'm lucky I get a fuck sake, what's wrong with you...

Uh he just sits there not getting involved with the kids unless to be negative 80% of the time.

I'm going out to see family today. Left it up to DH as to whether he'd join us...he's said the plans are are about face because we are meeting for coffee, going back to my sisters house the going out again for a walk. He doesn't want to go for coffee, has objections to even just sitting in the coffee shop as apparently now he can't Stan the smell....its just the most pathetic excuse ever to try and get me to change plans... duck him

Here is the Power and Control wheel OP. If this pulls out other methods of abuse, it can help you formulate in your mind what sort of abuse is actually going on.

Incidentally, if anyone says you are the bad guy, tell them they are free to have him and he is an abusive man and even if you were able to put up with it, you don't want your kids learning that this is the right way to live. You know from your dad that it isn't - so you need to get out ASAP and start living your life.

Just need to make a note of this while.I remember. Just got home with him and our eldest is very tired and lashing out...He just said to her that when she does hits etc it makes us want to have nothing to do with her. How dare him lump me in on such a damaging statement....I put him straight right away...but of course that means I'm happy with our eldest hitting me according to him, and that I don't let him parent...

Oh and I'm bust with the youngest atm. ..The eldest just called me to.see something and he just told her I don't want to see....wtf

Slowly slowly he moves his aggression and manipulation onto his children.

And they are learning how to behave from him. I suspect she might not even start lashing out if he wasn't there teaching her that it is a 'thing'.

Just another note, as this has made me so angry. ..I hate him at times....He can't treat our daughters like this...

Eldest is having a tantrum about going to school....I put the youngest in the car and come back in to him telling our eldest that if she continues to behave like this she'll get out in the garden....its freezing here...no way is that a normal punishment threat... I don't think he'd ever do it... I told DD to tell me if he ever did as that is no exceptable. ..and he turned round and told me I was reinforcing her behaviour! !! Um no way am I going to side with him threatening shit like that....

That reminds me of such a sad thread here once, where the abusive dh had put the errant child in the snowy garden as a punishment. Child was in pyjamas and had bare feet. Snowy garden. I expect that dh, like yours, started off with just the threat, too.

Watch out for escalation.

That's awful jux....god help him if he ever did that... It does make me worry though...If he can make threats like that when.I'm around, then how will he be with the kids on his own... I'm worried about them being left with him when I'm away this week now :(

And that's what he wants. Puts you on the back foot nicely just as you get ready to leave.

I won't be able to relax while away now... Instead of feeling relaxed as they're with their dad (as you would normally) I'm now going to be stressed and anxious the whole time, worrying about how he's being with them, how my eldest is feeling etc...

He should at her a few weeks ago for wetting herself :( and he calls her a horrid nasty girl if she's playing up... I hate it. I snuck her upstairs the other day as she pooed herself as he was admimant she could take herself to the toilet while we were all getting ready to go out... I just new he'd be horrible to her if he'd been the one to find out... :( why does this feel almost normal to.me??

By normal. ..no way do I think it's right or ok btw....buts it's so familiar from childhood I guess...that in the back of my head it's like there is something going 'hmm this is what I remember family being like'...

And it's only horrendous when put it all together. He can be lovely and kind etc...so the very odd comment while bad etc you can put down to stress or tiredness.... its when you look at the big picture though...This behaviour being very common....

Agree with Wally. Could u ask your mam or sis to pop in and visit the kids, see how they're doing when you're away?
Do u think your daughter is regressing due to the unsettling effect his behaviour is having on her? Sorry, can't remember how old she is....
Has he ever been left on his own with them for an extended period? I really hope he's not using the kids to get to you, but I fear this is another tactic. I.e, he's not saying as much but it's like he's telling you "I will be like this or worse when you aren't around, so I suggest you never stray far frm my sight unless u want the kids to suffer!"
Which would be deplorabe but it's like an unspoken threat isn't it?
He's using his treatment of the kids to manipulate you into doin wot he wants. I really hope I'm wrong mind, otherwise it basically means he doesn't love the kids and only views them as a tool in which to get at you and control you.
I could be way off obv. And ur right, it certainly shouldn't b the case u worry about leaving the kids with their own father.

My mum never come round for no reason... I go to hers 9 times out of 10....DH hates people popping over to ours unless it's planned well in advance :( so mum popping over isn't an option.

I don't think he empathises with the kids....He wants them to be mini adults, which they aren't of course. Eldest is 5...and the way he tried to reason with her is ridiculous. ..yes I probably baby her too much...but still...

And yes that is the unspoken fact really :( though of course if I say I'm worried then I'm evil and don't trust him etc....well no I don't because of how he treats them...