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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Why do some men who leave for OW treat their exes with such contempt?

250 replies

ChooChooLaverne · 25/02/2016 10:26

Just wondering about this as it's happened to a couple of my friends recently and I really can't understand what goes through their minds. Wonder if anyone can enlighten me.
*Disclaimer: obviously I'm only talking about some men here.

So the scenario goes something like this:
Couple have been together/married for a long time and have children. Woman is plodding along in the relationship unaware that anything is wrong. Man suddenly starts acting horribly, picking fault with the woman and comes out with the "I'm unhappy/not sure what I want" speech. Woman bends over backwards trying to sort things out only at some point later down the line to discover there is another woman.
Relationship ends and man becomes completely unreasonable about sorting out finances and childcare. Tries to get the woman out of the marital home, seemingly aggrieved that he is having to pay money to her (even though it's for the children), makes unreasonable demands about wanting/not wanting to have the children, and he talks to her in a way that is disrespectful and downright callous and lacking in empathy.

What prompts someone to behave like this? I get that he might paint her in a bad light to excuse himself for cheating on her - but I don't understand how he doesn't feel some sympathy for how she might feel and I really can't understand the level of contempt.

Can anyone explain this to me?

OP posts:
TheFormidableMrsC · 27/02/2016 22:48

Dilys...cunts indeed! I SO love that word. I would never say it IRL
though Smile

Yes, I agree, exactly how is OW going to feel when new baby arrives...a bit shit I should think...one can only hope.

Anyway, hurt, you'll be absolutely fine...a perfect example of "fuck you two"...x

hurtandconfued2016 · 27/02/2016 23:21

You know I don't actually think she will be fussed in any way because he has fed her all the crap. She was emotionally abusive, I was her door mat, she done nothing for me, I've not been happy for a long time. So I don't think either of them feel bad for what happened. I have offered for him to come to the hospital on Tuesday to see her so we shall see if he actually shows up!

TheFormidableMrsC · 27/02/2016 23:38

hurt if he doesn't, you have your answer. He's a horrible shit....just concentrate on your baby...you're more than enough. Sending you lots of love and hugs...xx

iPost · 28/02/2016 01:35

just concentrate on your baby...you're more than enough

Seconding that.

My (perhaps not surprisingly, estranged) brother (evidently walking in his father's footsteps, and then some) walked out on DSIL at 8.5 months pregnant with their second child. A child he had pushed for. OW was beyond the pale. The person I used to count as a sibling went beyond the pale, then bought a ticket to go further still. To add insult to incredulous injury, my (estranged, triggered by this) mother joined him on the trip.

My nephews are doing very well some 13 years on from his walk out. Which feels like a miracle when you consider what he (+ OW/my mother posse) has put them through. And that level of "doing well" is entirely down to DSIL.

It is heartening the difference it can make when one parent is able to make a priority of the children. Despite all the utter arseholyness from the other one, the kids know they can count on the parent that matters. Which seems to go a long way in providing a stable foundation for a life, cos it permits real, sustainable building blocks to be laid.

Sending you lots of love and hugs...xx

Massive ditto.

dilys4trevor · 28/02/2016 09:16

iPost, maybe your mum's behaviour is part of that thing someone was talking about up thread: parents of cheaters and EA types don't want to accept a child they have raised is not a nice person, so it's much easier to believe the person who has been betrayed is the villain.

My H's family leapt to his defence when I told them he had been behaving an affair and had totally humiliated me at work. I went into his email after he had died and sure enough, his dad had been saying 'Dilys has bullied you in the past. Let it stop now. Make sure she doesn't force you out of your job' (H had told him some nonsense about my trying to get him fired). It was obvious where his head was at: 'You've don't nothing wrong. She's the bitch. Now, don't give her an inch.' What the silly old man didn't know was that I had saved his son from the chop, not tried to bring it about.

What really rankled with me though was that H had an aunt who he couldn't be bothered to ever see himself, but whom had no kids or grandkids of her own and was obviously desperate to have a relationship with our kids. She was clearly very keen to have some sort of relationship with me too, I guess as a route to them. So I had her round to our house for whole days (on my day off) so many times over the last few years I cannot even begin to count. We had days out to all sorts of places. I'd rather NOT have spent so much time with a 70 year old woman, but she was OK and so I thought 'why not make her happy.' Plus she had also previously lent us some money to help buy our house (which we paid back) and I felt like we owed her a bit, morally. H himself never bothered with her.

Then it all came out about H's affair and her husband - H's uncle - leapt to the defence of H and was clearly ready to believe the absolute worst of me (that I was trying to trick him, that I was out to get money from him - a joke as I had higher earnings and a higher position than H, something he would rather die than admit to his family). I saw all this on email when he had died.

Of course, once H was dead they all suddenly wanted to be my best friend. Husband of the aunt even started slagging H off to me post his death, having been on his side and against me only days earlier, but I guess siding with a dead man is a bit of a waste of time?!

I have no intention of seeing the aunt and uncle again now, which is a shame for the aunt as she is lonely. H's dad had always been a fair weather grandparent, seeing the kids through brief quarterly visits where he didn't get up from the sofa. I will offer him the chance to have a more meaningful relationship with them (picking them up from school on occasion, taking them out, spending proper time with them) and help me out in the process, but if he doesn't want to put the effort in and just wants box ticking visits I will probably go NC.

So sorry your SIL and your family have had to go through this. I bet your SIL appreciates you alot. Were you the only person to stick by her?

iPost · 28/02/2016 12:42

maybe your mum's behaviour is part of that thing someone was talking about up thread: parents of cheaters and EA types don't want to accept a child they have raised is not a nice person, so it's much easier to believe the person who has been betrayed is the villain.

I think that is true in many cases. I'm pretty sure that is why my paternal grandparents made the choices they did. I know they loved us. But ... they clearly didn't want to see the ugly reflection of their cherished son mirrored in our pain. So my mother was recast as the villain of the piece. Which was like watching people throwing buckets of salt in the wounds of the person who loves you best. We children reacted badly to that, a wedge formed, a chasm happened. With no rope bridge.

But not so much in my mum's case with my brother. She broke when my dad left. Just ...broke. The woman who did to SIL not only what her PILs had done to her, but far worse, that is not my mother. My mother disappeared the day my dad walked out. And I've seen hide nor hair of her since. There is just this stranger who looks like her. And when she did what she did to SIL, things unfolded, other past transgressions stopped being carefully hidden away as an unacknowledged memory, and I couldn't live in denial over it any longer.

I took the fall out over her behavoirs towards SIL. My mother would pull stunts, and I would put the word out that I had done it, so I could try to preserve her relationship with her two grandchildren. (Because she would be in a huge huge sobbing mess over her fear that SIL wouldn't let her see the kids as a result) And she let me. And then did it again. Knowing that my relationship with SIL was being torn apart at the seams as a result. Knowing that since 1984 my default position had been to protect her regardless of the cost to myself, even though she was the parent. And she let me.

I have no idea who this woman is. But she sure as hell isn't the wonderful, loving, "my children are the priority", dignified, fair minded, principled, funny, creative, rock solid woman who brought me up. My father torpedoed her. And she broke. We lost both of them in one fell swoop.

I wish there had been MN back in the day. If she had been ...

-offered timely, comprehensive, BTDT-have Tshirt, constant adult support

-given a place to vent, but be warned off going down roads where there was no route back

-helped to focus on what mattered and not lose herself in the cycle of titting and tatting and distractions and lashing out with players and aspects that matter less in the great scheme of things

-warned off the risky stratagy of making her children pawns and sacrificial lambs

-proffered a place to grieve and be understood, with permission to feel grief and anger and pain in the face of so much "move on already" (although "get over it" was more usual back in the day), so she felt less alone and isolated

...I really think she might have got through reasonably intact. Battered and bruised, the odd chunk missing, but still in one piece. And then, so might have we. We tried to help her. But I was the oldest at 16, so we just didn't have the maturity and life experience needed to plug the gap between what she needed, and what we could offer. She was so alone. And so badly, badly hurt. I couldn't pull her out of the pain whirlpool, so she drowned in it.

Zaphodsotherhead · 28/02/2016 12:59

I think, sometimes, they justify leaving (and cutting off their DC) with the thought that 'I found someone else really easily, she'll find someone really quickly, move him in and he can finance the family/help with the kids'. It's the only way they can think... they can't possibly live life alone, so exW MUST get another man asap.

TheFormidableMrsC · 28/02/2016 13:25

Zaphodsotherhead...as I said upthread, that is exactly what my ex-h said.."you JUST need to meet somebody else". 2.5 years later I am nowhere near ready to "meet somebody else" and doubt I ever will be. Some scars run too deep and I wouldn't make a good partner for anybody anymore. However, given my ex has done this cutting off and moving straight on thing four times, I imagine he thinks it's perfectly normal. Huge red flag that I ignored! My ex is incapable of being alone, he also always targets single mothers who can put him up immediately. I didn't allow it I have to say, still didn't get me anywhere.

Where do they get off on thinking they can behave like this and it's OK? I will never get my head round it!

dilys4trevor · 28/02/2016 13:47

iPost, that is such a sad story. Do you think you might get closer again to your mum one day or is it too late? Sounds like she possibly wouldn't even recognise what happened to her all those years ago. Sorry if I am prying.

I sitting here now upstairs in our home and my 19 month old is asleep and my boys are playing downstairs. Although I am very up and down and sad and angry, I can recognise that this house is a much calmer one now it is just me and them. I'm really hoping this experience makes me a better parent. I can't think of anything more heartbreaking than ending up being a worse one because I am broken.

TheFormidableMrsC · 28/02/2016 14:28

iPost Flowers. Such a sad story. I am so sorry for what you have had to deal with. Horrific.

dilys I think you are remarkable given what you've had to deal with. It's strange isn't it? My house feels much the same, it took me a long time to actually appreciate that and it's better for my kids than the shouty, foul tempered atmosphere that ex-h created. I have absolutely no doubt that you will be a fantastic parent...you recognise that you are struggling, that i a huge first step. I understand feeling "broken", but in reality, we are just injured...the scars will heal Flowers

iPost · 28/02/2016 15:17

dilys

It's not prying love.

I just don't know the answer to the question. I did 3 weeks ago. But now the Internet has kindly (and belatedly) informed me that my father is dead... I think all I can do is sit very still, let the dust settle, repack boxes at the back of my head that split open, just as soon as they'll let me. And then maybe I'll know stuff again.

I know I want a time machine. But beyond that... I don't know much anymore.

You don't read as broken love. You talk of your children like they are people. Small people, but real live people all the same. They haven't become a point in a debate. Or a weapon. Or an excuse. Or a pawn. They are tiny people that you want to protect and get through this as unscathed as possible, for their own sakes. That's what I hear in your words.

That doesn't read as a person who is broken, or going to break.

I don't ever talk about this. Aside from my mother, only my husband knows. Not even my sister does. But I know the exact moment my mother broke, and it was the very second when she joined my father in the rewriting history game.

Once she realised he was gone for good, and there was no point fighting anymore to hold a now defunct marriage together, she simply erased all the fighting to hold on that she had done. In the space of a ten minute conversation with me, it became that she had kicked him out. Not becuase of the "silly little girl" of the OW. But becuase she said she had caught him spying on me dressing and undressing in my bedroom, with him lurking at the door, eye to the crack where the hinges were. And that's why she kicked him out. except I was there when she and I clung to suitcase as he was leaving

In ten minutes we went from it being him abandoning us to poverty and distress, to her having had to heroically make us a single parent family, in poverty, in distress... for my sake. Becuase my father was an incestuous sexual predator in waiting.

We both knew she was lying. But I felt I had to go along with the lie, in spite of how obvious it was that it was a massive and ugly untruth. Becuase she was on the edge of a precipice and to call her out in such an enormous lie looked like it had too many huge horrible consequences.

And every time we were alone, for the next 20 years, she needed to repeat the lie, and have me go along with it. To keep up the reframe of her as a strong, single minded, marriage ending woman who was fighting for her kid's safety and well being. To maintain it as being "real" and not a godawful thing she had done to her child so she could get back at her sorry excuse of a history rewriting husband.

Most parents don't do that. Not even under the worst stresses and deepest pain. They don't break so fully and totally. I love my mother. I love my father. But he torpedoed her and it broke her, because she had a hidden flaw that she never knew she had until it became a weak spot too far. You have to take your victim as you find her, and he broke her. Becuase she was breakable.

There's no reason to think you will break. Not least cos, if you were going to... bearing in mind what you have been through... it would have happened by now. But here you are, still talking about your children as real, live humans with the right to their own feeling and wanting to help them with that. You are going to be OK. It won't be an easy road. And I don't doubt you'll be left with some scarring. But you are going to be OK. Which means you can carry your children to OK too.

I'm in the "slightly bent, chipped a little, has scar tissue, but is not broken" club too I think. Different route. Same destination. Keeping on, keeping on, cos ... we have children. And they are real live people, who need us to stay in one piece so nobody gets sucked into a multi generational cycle of repeated dysfunction by accident. It's not like anybody wants to be in this club. And none of us chose it.

But it beats the alternative.

TheFormidableMrsC · 28/02/2016 15:38

Fucking hell iPost. I can't actually find any words. from me to you.

iPost · 28/02/2016 15:52

I am actually oK. Possibly more ok than I have been for 3 weeks. Or 32 years. One, the other, or both.

From the swirl of all the fractured feelings and "incidents" ... this is the first time I have been able to join the dots and know I love them both, while recognising where and why they went wrong.

Something ripped inside when I wrote the post. Not in a bad way. It hurts, but the ripping was the start of not being ... stuck. I think.

Maybe after decades of being shamed into tucking it all away and pretending it wasn't there by the "Move On !" brigade I finally do get to start moving on.

In the way it is supposed to be. To serve the needs of the person who got coshed, rather than for the needs of "move on already !" bystanders who are offended by the sight of the gash.

It is entirely possible the above makes no sense. But I know what I mean.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 28/02/2016 21:57

hurtandconfued2016

Sending much joy and good wishes your way for Tuesday - please keep us posted xx Flowers

I post - that's so heartbreaking - I am lost for words really . Your sister in law is lucky to have you inside

TheFormidableMrsC · 28/02/2016 23:02

i-post...your words make absolute perfect sense to me. They really do and I hope that this has been cathartic for you. I am not sure if you've mentioned before, but wonder if you've considered some counselling or suchlike? It helped me hugely, not for everybody of course. I really sincerely hope this is a new beginning for you my love Flowers.

Hurt, may I join stopfucking and wish you lots of love and luck for Tuesday. Thinking of you and yes, please do keep us posted! Flowers

peaceoftheaction · 28/02/2016 23:07

Best of luck from me too hurt and Flowers
Thinking of you all on this thread. ipost your sil is lucky to have you.
The thread has made me realise the importance of being believed when you go through this sort of thing. I don't talk about it much in RL in case people think I'm bitter or don't believe me. I know you all do and it means a lot
Brew

WellWhoKnew · 28/02/2016 23:30

It was the hatred of me that still makes me catch my breath at times.

His leaving was so sudden, such a shock and then for him to not understand that my whole life as I knew it, my plans, my natural optimism, my hopes for the future and everything I held dear was obliterated.

He left me in tens of thousands of pounds of debt, trying to wind up the business and get a job within days. Couldn't fathom why I might find that a bit "challenging".

And yet he continued to pulverise me throughout the divorce - some of what he did was beyond nasty.

And even on the (increasingly) rare occasions I talk about my divorce, people still look at me as if to say "Well, you must have done something"

Yes, I married an evil cunt is the best answer I've come up with so far. He squandered hundreds of thousands of pounds. And he needs someone to blame.

Here I am!

For those of you about to enter into protrated divorce and having to self rep, there's a great book called "Family Law Made Simple" by Gordon and Slater (could be Slater and Gordon - it's been a while since I read it) - I found it really helpful when I was going through it.

And Wikivorce. And David Terry's forum.

The one thing I learnt since he left, I'm still me. And that's okay.

And I'm not married to a dirty old man in a bar.

Yay!

TheFormidableMrsC · 28/02/2016 23:56

WWK I love you...as you well know. We are sisters in arms...and have pineapples. What the fuck could go wrong? Wink x

WellWhoKnew · 29/02/2016 00:13
Wink
iwantanewcar · 29/02/2016 01:44

WWK - yes the hatred still makes me catch my breath. I did nothing to deserve that. It is WOW.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 29/02/2016 02:29

iPost - your story is startling, tragic and yet(I'm sorry for sounding trite) inspirational because you too could have got sucked down into that whirlpool of brokenness, and yet you didn't. You didn't! You're out the other side, and I hope that life is full of calmer waters for you now.

Hurt - good luck for Tuesday - if it might help you, you could have a "live birth" thread - we'll all be here holding your hand through the screen. x

HilarysMantelpiece · 29/02/2016 06:56

Carabos: Who leaves a nice woman, child/ren and home? Only a cunt would do that, and he's not a cunt is he, so she must be a bitch. There's no other explanation.

peaceoftheaction: He treats me with utter contempt .... You would think I had left him or hurt him, when the opposite is true. I just want to move on and be civil but it seems he won't be content until he has destroyed me. In fact I think it's the fact he didn't destroy me which is perhaps what angers him so much?

magiceightball: when he decided to go I think he just had absolutely no solid reason so he had to create one.

...............................................................
I feel like I have found my tribe.

I want to print this thread off and mail it to PIL, my parents, our (former) mutual friends; to have it detailed in a Booker prize winning novel- which is then turned into a multi-Oscar winning movie.

You have described my STBXH to a T.
I have scrambled my brain trying to understand him and why he could treat me - and his DC- like this. And you guys get it.

I've said many many times that people's ears shut when I try to describe this....I've had my own family tell me that I am hard to live with ("hard to live with" meaning that I'm not a walkover...though I tried to be one for XH).

I have not chosen to be a single parent, with devastated children, juggling trying to get enough money in while he moves family assets overseas; I did not chose to have children in a broken home (thanks, Head of local Primary).
I am as solid and respectable and fair-minded as they come. Not perfect and made mistakes while married. But this punishment is like being flailed alive for doing 70 in a 60-zone.

Thanks

WahhHelpMe · 29/02/2016 14:05

Whilst people do this, if youre hearing from the aggrieved, and think they got blindsided then they may make it sound innocent, but also there's times when people don't perceive themselves doing anything bad or notice/ care when their partner brings it up, so resentment could have been building up for a long time

peaceoftheaction · 29/02/2016 15:16

waah is what you're saying that the reason people leave dh/dw for OW and then treat the left person dreadfully and with contempt for years after is because of built up resentments? Hmm
If so I find that bizarre. I think most cheated upon people do care about the relationship, but it's now gone because they were cheated on. Not sure what resentments you think justify cheating on someone then treating them like shit for years afterwards tbh. Even if I had killed a succession of exh puppies and ruined 25 sets of golf clubs I don't think he could have and treated me worse (and still is) In reality, he was EA in the relationship, hight maintenance and difficult, and then had an affair. That doesn't make me the ideal partner nor does it justify treating me badly now.
I know those who have been through this will get it. But comments like yours are why I don't discuss it in RL

iPost · 29/02/2016 15:28

the aggrieved

The linguistic gymnastics to minimise are such a staple.

Try the devastated. The wounded. The reeling. The scarred. The raw. The lost. The stuck. The airbrushed out. The grief stricken. The left behind, forgotten and erased.

There is a reason behind this need to blur and smudge the real emotional cost of somebody's actions. And getting nearer to the truth behind somebody's actions, regardless of the impact on spouse and/or progeny, rarely has anything to do with this dogged motivation to employ a much downgraded adjective, or two.