Seriously thinking about NC with DH's side of the family

[Gobbolinothewitchscat]

This is going to be long but think I need to post the background

I've posted previously about SIL's wedding. I have 3 DCs - age 3, 2 and 13 weeks. The oldest have just turned 3 and 2 respectively so still small.

SIL is getting married about 150 miles away on a week day. We have been told no DCs at the wedding. Mil has a difficult family background and her half-brothers children will be going however - albeit they are older than ours. I susir t ultimately that SIL will also permit her friends to bring small babies. I understand that it is SIL's wedding but I find it pretty hurtful that our children (who are actually her closest relatives) are to be excluded.

My parents are extremely supportive of us and will normally drop anything to help us out. Mil has form for being very difficult and has been very unhelpful at difficult times - eg looked after putt DS on the day of my grandmother's funeral (250 miles away) but refused to rearrange plans so I had to get out cleaner to come and look after DS (then 1 year old) as she had to leave at 5pm. The whole thing was horribly stressful and I still find it very upsetting to think about.

My parents normally drop everything to help us but normally go on holiday with friends around the date of SIL's wedding. They therefore told me immediately that they may be able to look after our DCs but that - in this instance - they actually won't cancel their holiday if the group of friends can only manage that date (they are all retired so tend to go quite last minute to get the best deal) and we should therefore get a plan B. I immediately highlighted this to DH and his response was - (massively fucking entitled) oh it's my sister's wedding. Surely they won't go away. I said they very well could and he should highlight this to his family now as we may not have any childcare and ultimately I wouldn't be able to go. Plus, I could very well still be feeding youngest DC. Really the only option would be to take someone to look after the DCs on site and I didn't even know if that would be feasible. But I was highlighting it now so that there were no amateur dramatics near the wedding if I couldn't go

Communication within DH's family is pretty piss poor so nothing was done.

At the weekend, SIL, MIL and FIL came ti visit and stay the night. SIL said something in passing about my parents looking after the DC and I said that actually they maybe away and there wasn't really a plan B. I said that I could perhaps ask my DS's key worker from nursery to travel to the wedding and look after the DCs but we would need to get him accommodation. And, in any event, I was uncomfortable about being away from my youngest DC even if I could get someone look after all DC at our house.

SIL told me that there were no rooms left at the hotel but if I got the key worker, he could perhaps stay at a local B&B. That she was having to lay £150 a head per guest and she wanted me to be able to relax and enjoy myself and also keep costs down - hence why our DCs weren't invited. I said that the best solution maybe to ask the key worker. And, if I did, would SIL like the DCs to be brought to the church (waiting outside during the ceremony) for a few photos as they would be in the area. Totally up to her obviously but thought she might like it. She said yes, but she was banning children from the church. I said I quite understood as FIL's brother's children had made a terrible racket during ours in the church (MIL insisted they were invited) and you could even hear the noise on the wedding video. MIL said she couldn't remember that but I said (nicely) that it was on the video. I also said that if my parents were looking after the DCs, they had also offered to bring them to the church (to wait outside) and take them home (a big thing as a huge drive) after if she wanted photos.

So - it was all perfectly pleasant and I thought the childcare issue was clear. More importantly, there was actually communication like normal people. DH then went to work in the morning and the DCs and I went out with SIL and the PILs for brunch - all perfectly pleasant. Nothing else said. I was slightly nervous about going out as the PILs had been invited to visit DC3 a few days after she was born and had been very late (with no communication). I was upstairs feeding the baby and DH had said something to MIL about it. She had started shouting and bawling at DH saying it was my fault and I was manipulating them and being very rude about me. I decided the best thing to do was pretend I hadn't heard and gloss over things. But, again, everything perfectly pleasant at brunch

DH then arrives home and asks me what I had been saying to his sister? I explained the position about childcare and said that I had highlighted this to him already but his approach seemed to have been that my parents would have to just cancel their holiday. That wasn't very constructive so I had highlighted things to SIL so she could make ab informed choice about allowing the DCs to attend in the vicinity and be looked after off site (pretty pissing annoying that DH could have mentioned it earlier so we could have got a room for them and carers at the hotel but now we couldn't) as ultimately if we couldn't get appropriate childcare, I wouldn't be able to go and with a wedding of 60 people, that would be noticeable.

DH then says that obviously I had a chip on my shoulder about FIL's neice making a racket during our wedding and that my parents were manipulating things by refusing to cancel their holiday (the irony after my grandmother's funeral and various other times that they have dropped everything and driven 300 miles to help us out after the PILs have let us down!). I susir t he had spoken to MIL on the way home.

I am absolutely fed up with this. I am fed up of rather than everyone talking civilly about things (as I tried to do) and resolve problems in good time, MIL then approaches DH behind my back. If she or SIL had a problem, why not discuss it with me at the time or the next day? I am fed up (and I think this is the crux of it) if DH not simply explaining that all I am trying to do is sort out childcare for the DCs (as basically he seems to have opted out of it and my parents - his indentured servants obviously - are to drop everything AGAIN to help out). Why is DH not able to actually support me (his wife) and make it clear - politely - to his family that if you have your wedding hundreds of miles away and don't invite your very young nieces and nephews, then yes, childcare will be an issue and that is not bring "difficult". It's a matter of fact. And, actually, if your "keeping costs down" banning your brothers children whilst letting others attend is actually pretty fucking hurtful

I actually don't know what to do. I've said tinDH that I think that actually everyone should just be honest and communicate clearly with each other now. So if he thinks my patents are "selfish"
and "manipulative" (the breath taking cheek!) he should say to their faces. Further, I will contact SIL and MIL and ask them if they need me to clarify anything about what we discussed. Further, another option is for me to not attend and look after the DCs which I think maybe the best option all round

I'm actually so so sick of this. I don't want to see the PILs again and I don't particularly want to see SIL again.

Should I contact them? Should I just decline the wedding invitation? I want to make it clear why

I also need to sort out the DH issue too

Sorry not rtft but it might be cheaper overall to cover the sil costs for adding your kids to her [precious] guestlist.

Quick text Dear SIL We are I am struggling with childcare/distance and may not be able to come to the wedding day sadly. We I got the impression you were being cautious with the guestlist to keep costs down. I We are happy to cover the costs for the DCs to come if that helps you because it would help us me also. If not DH will be there and tell me all about it. Love [clenched teeth] SIL

Oh lord

And that's why you need to RTFT

Skimmed the thread and agree with wot others have said. I think it´s mental for you/husband to ask or expect your parents to cancel their hols and I think that they would be stupid to do so. Why are you and your parents such push-overs? And why on earth would you be ruining the wedding by not going??

You´ve got a perfectly valid reason to not go. The kids! Who gives a shit what others want to make up and read into that. Your husband should have your back and be bloody well standing up for you but it sounds like his loyalty lies with his family and even he is scapegoating you. You can´t do right for doing wrong can you? So why give a toss??

Seriously, don´t go to the wedding. HIs family don´t even like you anyway. You´re just a means to an ends for getting access to the kids. In your shoes I wouldn´t give a flying fuck what anyone thinks of me cos you will never win with them and they will never change. You will always be picked on, criticized, gossiped about and they will always be snidey, toxic, manipulative, dysfunctional shits! So stop being a mug.

I wholeheartedly agree that you should go NC, stop giving a shit about their thoughts on you and your husband is behaving like a fucking moron. As others have stated, he´s the big issue here. You´re married to him not his bloody mother. Honestly, with 3 sml kids haven´t you got enough stress in your life anyway? They should be taking up your energy and your headspace, not your bloody inlaws! Seriously, why expend so much energy on people who don´t give a fuck about you?

I would´ve declined the invite straight away rather than enter into negotiations and elaborate plans to arrange childcare. Are you even very close to his sister? If anyone has an issue with you not attending when they know you´ve 3 sml kids and the logistics of it all, then they´re not living in the real world and would be just waiting to pour criticism on you anyway. Normal people, who are caring and have empathy, wouldn´t ever judge you. They´d completely understand. And I think it´s disgraceful that they´ve got this delusion that you´re just gonna rock up to the wedding, kids not invited and everything is gonna be hunky dory, all for the sake of appearences. But they aren´t normal are they? Far from it.

Your parents aren´t the lackies that they and your OH seem to think they are, at their beck and call to come running whenever they click their fingers. I would never sit back and see my parents viewed and taken for granted like that. How fucking dare they?! ....and then bitch about them behind their backs!

Tell your OH enough is enough and if he´s not gonna see things from your side then he can jog on and chuffing well just go see them on his own. It´s really not worth the massive energy sap/head fuck! I´d go NC. You get nothing but grief from these arseholes. THey aren´t even pleasant people ffs, so why wouldn´t you?

Gobbolino - I had a quite similar situation with my parents around my sisters wedding

My DW was in your position and I was in the position of your husband,

Basically my father was extremely demanding about the arrangements for the wedding, completely dominated my sister who was actually getting married. Asked me to do the reading at the wedding to which I agreed but then refused to organise any transport whatsoever during the day for me and my family but had organised it for other guests. I was not offered accommodation at my parents house which is right next to the church. The hotel was about 20 miles away in the middle of the countryside and the wedding meal 20 miles in the other direction and the evening reception at my parents house. About a 60 mile round trip for me and my DW and children.

I have a chronic long term illness and cannot drive. My father then further demanded I turn up the night before for a rehearsal and also do all the ushering on the morning of the wedding.

To accommodate my fathers wishes I would have had to hire a chauffeur driver all day and ship my family from pillar to post all day at a total cost of about £600.

I tried to suggest alternative arrangements. He refused to consider what I suggested and put down an ultimatum saying 'you don't have to come to the wedding then!'.

After a blazing row and after years of this sort of behaviour I have cut off contact. I have had all the begging and manipulation to get me back in contact via my youngest sister, hinting my oldest sister was seriously ill when she wasn't, the death of a distant relative provided an excuse to suggest I come a funeral and even a plaintive message MIL through a Christmas card to her.

The only solution was and still is to cut off all contact and it took this event to see that was what was required. My DW bit her lip like you have done for 30 years but in the end it was me hat had to do the deed. Your husband has to do the same..

I think your main issue is DH.

I haven't exactly gone nc with pil but try not to see them. Dh visits with the dcs. I'm done with being trampled on.

Gobbo - Incidentally my father has had no contact with his brother or SIL for decades. Its a pattern and I see the same in your PILs family. My mother is totally dominated by my father who will not let her out of his sight but she facilitates him.

In a sense, your DH's behaviour is rational-he knows that unless he bends the knee, he will be cast out of the family. Unfortunately, I think that now he has got a convenient scapegoat in you, OP, he is inclined to go with that rather that support and protect you and his DC.

When people's good opinion or acceptance is so heavily conditional on obedience, and they can move the goalposts at any time, you really are in an impossible situation.

Forget worrying about consequences:- accept that some kind of breach is sadly inevitable. Just think about what is reasonable and practical in this situation. You've no childcare (without spending a fortune, massive inconvenience and putting the DC is a less than optimal situation), so you can't go. If anyone tries to put a more sinister interpretation on that, just shrug your shoulders.

Thanks all for the excellent advice.

I think two things stick out:

1. That some kind of breach is inevitable; and

1. There will never be zero pain. I can only minimise what happens.

I'm not going to speak to the PILs or SIL. Neither are my parents. Time for natural consequences. DH can find a plan B. If it's not suitable and/or I don't want to leave the baby, I won't be going.

I'm not discussing it again with him. He can sort this out. I will rsvp to say that hopefully I can come but will not be able to definitely commit.

My parents don't intend to sisal to DH but will be backing off in respect of what help they offer him directly until he shows a bit if respect and gratitude.

But....I also need to speak to DH tonight. I intend to say that I need an apology in respect of what he said last night. Specifically calling me and my parents manipulative and them selfish.

If he doesn't apologise, not quite sure where we go from there

Well, see what he says and then you can consider your next step. It's nothing you need to decide right away.

That's the spirit OP.

How on earth does he come to the conclusion that your folks are selfish??

Aren´t they the normal ones, bending over backwards to help you guys out? Why should they have to continually be relied upon and make sacrifices? They shouldn´t have to apologise for having a bloody life? Just cos your inlaws have fuck all going on and need to be the centre of everyone´s universe!!

He´s bang out of order and def needs to apologise but you shouldn´t have to ask, he should know he´s speaking out of turn. What a wanker you´re married to!

To me it sounds like your OH has an awful lot to thank your parents for, not bloody slate them to you! Ungrateful pig

Gobbolino I think you have already figured out that there is no way if making these people like you. So the only way you can win this game is not to try.

You don't want to go NC as you are worried about MIL seeing the DCs without you.

However so far you are doing all the wifework of organizing everything - on the visits you do all the cooking, cleaning, bed changing etc. I am guessing you also do all the sorting out dates, texting and emailing as well?

If you were to stop doing this wifework and had a policy of 'I sort my family, you sort yours', I would guess that low contact would happen naturally in a matter of minutes as your DH would organize nothing.

If everytime the ILs were in touch, you referred them to DH he'd want that headache gone very fast. How much did he have to do with them before you arrived and thought they were like a normal family and started unknowlingly facilitating their shit?

At the moment he can't see them as a problem but that partly because he's lost in FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) and partly because you and your parents (who sound absolutely lovely) are solving all his problems for him. If you stopped doing this and they became his problem, the dynamic would change very fast.

He's been so warped by his family he thinks even your parents, who are not related to your ILs, should bend over backwards to accommodate his family.

Goodness me.

What is it about weddings?

Upshot is SIL can choose a child free wedding BUT she doesn't then get to dictate the responses of invited parents to that.

If your attendance was mandatory OP then the discussions to facilitate this re: childcare should have been a priority. They are obviously happy to bend the rules for some, you and/or your parents are expected to suck it up.

Your DH is simply too appeasing to his old family unit when his focus should be on the one he is building with you.

I think you are right to back off and tell him to deal with this. It's past compromise time. He needs to tell SIL you come as a family or he goes alone. That's it.

I'm just so tired tonight and sad.

I don't want this. I want to get on with my in-laws. I dint want to he be to mix with people whom I know don't like me for no good reason.

I'm just so upset about what DH has said about my parents. The two-facedness of it. Happily accepting all of their help when it suits him and treating them with total contempt when they don't do exactly what he says.

I don't want to have to live my life on tenter-hooks constantly second guessing what MIL will be doing behind my back

I've got 3 little children who love their dad. It's not as simple as just walking out the door which I would do in a second if there weren't DC involved

Can anyone shed any light on why mIL is like this and what has happened to DH when he was growing up to make him react like this?

sorry, rambling

I packed when mine kicked off, I booked a hotel room. Told the kids we were going on a holiday without daddy for a few days.

I looked at their faces, I looked at them and realised I couldn't turn their life upside down (move 60 miles and school change) for my inlaws. I couldn't hurt them more then they had already been.

My DH takes the least line of resistance, slightly supportive but mainly lives for an easy life. When it's bad I do wish I'd gone, if Mine were younger I'd have gone as they would have lost less.

My MIL would be thrilled if we got divorced. In sure of it. She wouldn't care less about any effects in the children

Apart from the PILs, we rarely ever argue. I think we have a good marriage. But I really cannot do 30+ years of this

Look at this way: someone in your ILs' family, MIL by the sounds of it, is a narcissist. The rest of you only exist as characters in her movie. You don't have any agency of your own.

FIL knows this - he does anything for a quiet life. Sometimes he may look like a nice guy, not like MIL at all. But if something or someone threatens his quiet life, he will swing in on the side of MIL to make sure his quiet life continues. He is her enabler.

DH and SIL know this. SIL is probably another MIL in the making. SIL has selected someone to marry who will be quiet and enable her. MIL likes him better as she likes SIL better. SIL is probably the golden child as well. How well this will work in the long run remains to be seen.

And then there's you. You are lovely. Good points have been your parents' willingness to enable all this shit and not have opinions of their own. Unfortunately this can only continue for so long. Bad points have been that fact that you had opinions and these were not those of a cheerleader. Your role really was only to create grandchildren for MIL and then shut up.

Does that make sense?

op