Well that's it - after 7yrs of marriage and 8yrs together DH and I are on the verge of splitting up

[fannyannie]

We had a long chat last night before I went to work about "us". And he admitted that he "resigned" himself to the fact that we were living as "friends" about 4 or 5yrs ago. I told him that I couldn't continue living like this - we're talking, not really arguing (that's something in itself!) but really just as friends nothing more. I gave him the option of relationship counselling or moving out as I couldn't live like 'friends' for the rest of our lives (I'm not quite 28!) and he refused counselling.

So I guess that's that. I'm nearly 18 weeks pg with DC3 (unplanned) and he's said he's happy for me to continue living here as long as I want, but I told him that once I'd had a chance to get a deposit and first months rent for a house/flat together then I'd have to move out. He seemed pretty shocked, but hasn't mentioned anything about it today (although I've been in bed most of the day having worked last night).

I still really love him, and desperately hoped that, although our relationship has been far from perfect for several years, we could give it one last proper go - but it appears not. He's an amazing father to our DS's and I feel awful breaking that up - but I just can't face living without any 'love' in our relationship.

I guess deep inside I knew it was coming - it was me that asked him to sit down and talk, but a big part of me wanted him to say we could give it one last shot - but it appears not.

I suppose I'm glad that at least I know where we're at, but it hurts like hell and I just don't know how I'm going to cope on my own - not worried about finances - I know I can afford a decent rented place, bills and food on my income, tax credits, child benefit and money I get from the church for playing the organ, just worried that I won't be any good at playing "mum and dad" to the boys - although I'll make sure that DH gets to see plenty of them - he won't have the same relationship with no.3 (which he wanted me to get rid of) as he has with the other 2 and I feel terrible about it.

yes it might be a very foolish mistake - HOWEVER, it might also be one that he is more than prepared to make once he has had the boys for a month on his own and realises that he wants it to be just him and them. And he might just win. No one can predict.

ALthough I'm trying my best I don't altogether understand where you are coming from.

If it was me (and I know it's not, so I apologise in advance) I would rather have a couple of mattresses on the floor but have my kids with me rather than worry about kitting out the house first.

But that is me. If you move out and leave them for a month that is one change they will have to get used to - and then you will be subjecting them to another change when you take them to another place.

Why not just do everything at the same time - move out WITH THEM all in one go, so they don't have too many things to get their heads around

but I'm not in the house 3 nights a week anyhow - then 3 days a week I'm asleep in bed so they don't see me! And there have been occasions in recent months where I've worked 5 or 6 nights in a week

It's not like it's going to be a massive shock to either of them if mummy isn't around when they get up.

And on the reverse it does work out sometimes that DS1 doesn't see DH for 48hrs or more (depends on who gets them up for school - if DH gets them up on Monday morning, I'll get them up on Tuesday and DH again one Wednesday because of DH's working hours he wouldn't see him again until the Wednesday morning - and then only briefly).

OK whatever
You know him and you know your kids. All we can do is offer support and advice.

I wish you well and hope that you are not deceived.

I know - I'm sorry if I'm come across a bit 'off' with some of my replies - not been getting much sleep (once I'm asleep it's ok - but it's just getting off that's hard) and it's difficult trying to explain somethings 'on paper' when you don't know any of the people involved......apart from on paper IYKWIM.

There's a saying that people only listen to the advice they want to hear. So you'll probably take no notice of this. Nevertheless, I am adding it with all good intentions.

I really hope that things work out for all of you. But before you make any irrevocable decisions, I think you need to think , think and think again about some of the points others MNers have made. Consider all the worse case scenarios. Worst case scenario re leaving the children behind... dh changes his mind about letting them go to live with you. Then what? If he is also retaining the family home then, agreement or no agreement, I imagine it would strengthen his case for getting custody (if that whas what he decided he wanted).

Why the deadline for moving out? If you are on as good terms as you say, then surely he'll understand that you'll take as long as you need - not more, not less - to find a suitable new home.

And last, but not least, what about the children? I can understand why you might want to leave the family home - but what about them? They are already facing their parents splitting up and the birth of a sibling. These are stressful events in a child's life. I would be concentrating on making their lives as stable as possible, given the circumstances. Is it really best for them if mum moves out for a month, then they move house leaving dad behind? Oh yeah, and a lodger moves in too...

If you are sure that you and dh are dealing with things in the best possible way, given the circumstances, that's great. It really is. The reason I posted (and I may be wrong here - it does occasionally happen ) - is that many of your posts read as if you have buried your head in the sand a little. "No, that wouldn't happen". "No, dh wouldn't do that", etc. From what I have witnessed in RL, separation and/or divorce has a tendency to bring out the worst in people.

These are big decisions you are making. If dh is the decent man you say he is, then I'm sure he'll understand that you should not be rushed into doing anything you might regret. To misquote Anon: "Act in haste, repent at leisure".

I really admire you FA. I haven't read all the posts but those I have, all seem to have been saying you're naive to think that you can sort all this out amicably. I can understand people's concerns but IME there's no reason why you can't sort this out without there being problems.

I split up with my x of 12 years very amicably. I wanted children, he didn't, in the end it came between us. But it wasn't nasty, once we made the decision to split, we sat down, split all the finances in half, agreed to sell the house and split the profits and we even drew up a list of who was having what from the house with not a single argument. Admittedly there were no children involved, but there's no reason why you can't sort out the arrangements for the children without hostility. You clearly think your dh is a great dad and want to sort out things so he is still fully involved with the boys. That's great. I hate to hear women talking about "my" son and "letting" dads see their children. Children have two parents and don't belong to either.

You've steadfastly continued to stand by your belief that you can do this and that your dh is a good guy and that things won't turn nasty. Good for you. I really hope things work out for you.

You will need to kit out a new home from scratch too - will he help you with that?

I mean things like:

Hoover/mop/cleaning materials (washing brushes, liquid, softener, polish, dustpan and brush, washing basket, cloths)
Saucepans, pots pans
Cooking utensils
kettle
cutlery
linen baskets
Bed linen - yours and children
Extra clothes
Towels
Mirrors (very often lacking in furnished flats)
Storage/bookshelves (very often lacking in furnished flats - let alone unfurnished)
Re-stocked larder cupboard......? (herbs, spices, basic cooking materials that you dont buy every week or even every month).
Beds for the children - will there be enough?
Toys/entertainment for the children?

You cant take all of it with you - and you cant expect to drag things like towels and bed linen etc back and forth between homes.

What about the new baby?
Cot
Pram
Baby change stuff?
Will he front that? (Although I am sure there may be some generous MNers who can pass you stuff they dont need anymore, but, its not to be relied on by you or him).

For the above, we are talking ALOT of money - just to get you started. Not including the rent and deposit.

Hoover/mop/cleaning materials (washing brushes, liquid, softener, polish, dustpan and brush, washing basket, cloths) - I'm due a new hoover anyhow - our one (which he's welcome to) is on it's last legs. Other cleaning stuff very cheap - and I've got excess of most of it in the cupboard as I always take advantage of special offers and end up with surplus

Saucepans, pots pans - I currenly survive using 2 pots, wok (which I use for just about everything but stir fry) and a frying pan - the saucepans are knackered and again due new ones - I don't need Teflon so again can be bought quite cheaply.

Cooking utensils - again I've got plenty of those - most of the 'specialist' ones (as he calls them as he wouldn't know what to do with them LOL) he's already said I can have - the rest can be replaced cheaply in Wilkos/99p shop

kettle - yes I'll need one of those - only a small one and I'm not after 'brand' ones.

cutlery - we've still got the old set in the cupboard which I can keep.

linen baskets - 99p

Bed linen - yours and children - We've recently bought new ones - but didn't get rid of the old (perfectly usable ones) so he's said I can take those. The boys ones we have LOADS in the cupboard (I'm talking about 10 duvet covers and fitted sheets and not far off that with cot ones).

Extra clothes - for who? The boys never wear all the ones they have now - so we'll leave some here.
Towels - a whole linen chest full of the damn things so I can have some.
Mirrors (very often lacking in furnished flats) - a couple of quid in Wilkos/Morrison/Auction

Storage/bookshelves (very often lacking in furnished flats - let alone unfurnished) - Auction I've estimated £300 should do the lot for what I need (although he's said I can take the 2 bookcases we have upstairs as they only contain my books and the boys books).

Re-stocked larder cupboard......? (herbs, spices, basic cooking materials that you dont buy every week or even every month) - I can restock my entire larder for less than £100 (I know I've done it twice before when we moved).

Beds for the children - will there be enough? - we'd already budgetted to buy bunk beds for the boys very soon - so we'll get them and I'll take them with me - he's got the single bed here and he's said he'll get another cheapy diven for when they stay

Toys/entertainment for the children? - I shall be GLAD to be able to leave half the toys here - they have too many of the damn things and never play with half of them.

You cant take all of it with you - and you cant expect to drag things like towels and bed linen etc back and forth between homes.

What about the new baby?
Cot - Already have one (DS2 still in it )
Pram - still have DS2's old one

Baby change stuff? - what like wipes and nappies and a towel??

Will he front that? (Although I am sure there may be some generous MNers who can pass you stuff they dont need anymore, but, its not to be relied on by you or him).

For the above, we are talking ALOT of money - just to get you started. Not including the rent and deposit.

For rent, deposit and absolute bare essentials I need £1400-1700 - I already have £500 of that sorted in the last day. I'll have another £500 by the end of the month, my parents have now said they'll help me out and I'll have another £500 end of February.

Why the deadline for moving out? If you are on as good terms as you say, then surely he'll understand that you'll take as long as you need - not more, not less - to find a suitable new home.

Well actually I would like to be out and had at least a month or so in the new house before DC3 arrives - that's why I broached the subject with him about where our relationship was going.

oh fa I am so sorry it has come to this. But in saying that it may come to that in this house too, but unlike you I haven't got a clue how w would manage financially.

Hope you can work it all out hun, thinking of you x

Why are you getting all of the old stuff? I presume you bought new because you needed it?
Why is one person's needs greater than four persons'(including your baby)? Why are you the one replenishing everything?

When I left my ex-husband two years ago, I desperately wanted it all to be amicable. And I thought it was until I discovered he had sold the house behind my back (keeping the proceeds), told lies about me to his solicitor and family, and to this day has never given me a penny in child support. I got totally walked over just because I didn't want to fight. However, I did get the most precious things and those were my two dds.

I still haven't brought any of this stuff up with him because I feel I paid a small price for my freedom.

Why can't you start renting for a week before you leave the family home? That way you could move your things over gradually, whilst still sleeping in the family home, and ease the boys into it. He may be a wonderful father but you never know if an idea will start to form whilst he has them to himself for a month. How will he be able to bear passing them back after being their main carer for all that time? It's not fair on anybody.
Just remember this wasn't your idea and you were willing to give it another go. Optimism is all very well...I just hope you don't come down with a bump.

"Just remember this wasn't your idea"

Actually it WAS my idea to move out when I realised after talking to him honestly about our relationship that it was over. If I hadn't brought it up we would probably have lived together as friends until it came to stage where it did get nasty.

The "old" stuff that I'm getting is still in good condition, the old stuff that's he's keeping will need replacing sooner.

A friend in RL asked me today why I was taking the old cutlery and not the new stuff........well because I always loved the old stuff and didn't really see the need to buy new ones.

And as for the boys furntiture - well the old chest of drawers is coming with me.....because it's got sentimental value for me. It was a knackered (but well made) old thing when my parents bought it about 27 odd years ago. Mum painted it blue and the drawers different colours and we've got it now. The drawers are a bit 'sticky' and the handles need replacing (the new ones have been sat in the top drawer waiting to be put on for about 3yrs now LOL) but I love it to bits and it fits all the boys clothes.

If he was to sell the house 'behind my back' he wouldn't make any money on it at all - there's hardly any equity and there's a massive secured loan on it which would need to be paid back if he sold - which would eat all of that up. By the time he's got enough equity/paid off enough of the loan to gain anything from selling we'll have been seperated for at least 5yrs and by then I (hopefully) won't really care!

btw -re the passports thing - asked him I could have them when I moved out didn't give any reasons and his reponse was "yes of course, makes sense for you to have all the kids documentation together - don't forget to take their birth certificates too - I'll get them all out together for you"

FA...I think that you are in the "flight" mode rather "fight" mode. Both are valid/active survival responses...seems like you have thought it through, accepted the reality of your relationship and just want to get to the other side - I wish you well - you want your nest ready for your new baby and your new family unit - you need your personal time and space to create that. I believe that you will succeed and survive ...be kind to your self...pace your self...it wont all be over, done and dusted in March...it will only be the beginning...but you have made decisions, chosen a direction...I hope thta you can both behave and progress with dignity...each time you hold your tongue, find a compromise is emotional happiness in the bank for your children. Again I send you best wishes

I don't get all the "so he's said I can take those"

"(although he's said I can take the 2 bookcases we have upstairs as they only contain my books and the boys books)"

"he's got the single bed here and he's said he'll get another cheapy diven for when they stay"

Can you see a pattern? He sure is the boss, am I right? (You'll probably say no anyway)
You seem so gullible & very niave. But I really hope to god this works out for you.. you see to be excited about leaving & getting your own place sorted, maybe you knew the end was in sight earlier than you think?

Good Luck anyway

And you wanted to stay until the end of March and hte start of your leave, but he said it had to be the beginning of the month. Now you are rationalising it as your decision, but it wasn't. It was his.

Sorry. Take care and I hope it goes well for you.

Message withdrawn

tbh with the latest developments (this afternoon adn viewing a house that I liked) I'm actually glad I'm going sooner than I initially said.

It's very hard on me emotionally knowing that we're nothing more than friends - whereas he isn't having those feelings (because they died long ago). I'm now seeing (after a very stressful - and sleepless week) that the longer it takes for me to move out and 'make the break' the harder it's going to be on me - and when I'm 18 weeks pg it's a stress I could do without - not to mention the effects it could have on my wonderful 2 DS's (especially DS1 who's that bit older) seeing me getting so stressed and upset.

Yes I'm almost certainly going to be upset and emotional even after I've left, but if I'm not constantly trying to blot out those emotions and concentrate on practicalities (which I have been doing) I know (knowing myself pretty well ) that I'll deal with it better.

Even now I'm glad he never agreed to April (lets not forget either that it was me who made the decision to seperate) - the stress on me would have been too great. And TBH the only reason I said April (but then agreed to March) was because I thought that was how long it would take for me to find the finances to make the deposit/first months rent etc etc. I also, foolishly, thought that if I stuck around longer there was a chance we could 'work things out' - but I realise now (though it's still hard to accept) that it's not going to happen.

oh and Dior - I wanted to be out at least 2 months before DC3 arrived so I had at least a bit of time to get used to being on my with the children we already have and to give me some time to settle down and get finances slightly more settled.

Doesn't he feel slightly guilty that you will have the Dcs all on your own?

Is he going to go in with you to give birth?

You are coping remarkably well.

I'm not sure how he feels on that one - he wanted the children all to himself when the split was first agreed.

Mind you - If he doesn't feel that way now by the end of March (when they'll come to me) I'm sure he will. As we'll be doing the 'reverse' of what will normally happen - I'll still have them over to stay for nights before they move in properly - but he will have them most of the time for that period (like I will after April).

He wants to still be involved in their lives, and I want him to be too - so at least we agree on that.

As for the birth thing - not sure I want him there now - it somehow wouldn't feel 'right' - I'm still contemplating a homebirth (in my new house now I guess!) but whereever I end up giving birth I'd rather he looks after the DS's and I have a friend (I've got 2 that have offered - and I'd feel comfortable with) with me.

Yeah I think i'd feel the same way about the birth too. Have you had a HB before with the ds's?

No I haven't had a HB before - DS1 was a CS, DS2 I was induced and had him in hospital. I'm quite open to the fact that I may end up having this one in hospital too (especially if it decides to be stubborn like it's brothers - waters broke but nothing else happened!) but I'd like to at least try a homebirth.

H wasn't keen on me having a HB with this one anyhow, so I may well have had someone else (a friend or doula if I could have afforded) with me when I gave birth anyway.

At least this way I know that H will be able to have the boys when I'm giving birth so childcare is automatically sorted.

Having said that if he wants to be there - then I certainly won't stop him - he's seen be naked and giving birth before - and he is the father and if he decides he'd like to be there then I'd be ok with it - but I'd probably still have a friend there as well.

fannyannie,

where abouts do you live (re: doula thing, i may be able to help you)

Cx