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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

He won't share his money

266 replies

NotEqual · 29/12/2006 12:15

My Dh has a high earning secure job(earns £80K a year) and recently sold a share of a property and got another £80K. However he won't entertain the concept that half of this is mine(or to put it better,it is all OURS).We do not have a joint account,he puts money into my account every month plus I have a part time job and child benefit,so I am not short of money.He doesn't thimnk I can be trusted with money as I do occasionally run up credit card debts which he then pays off.I know this is stupid of me but I feel sometimes it is the only way to spend what I consider to be my money too.If we were short of money or had loads of debts I would not do it but we are not.Sorry I sound like a spoilt bitch but I am not,I just feel that I am not an equal partner and he cannot love me as much as his money!!

OP posts:
Sobernow · 30/12/2006 10:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Glitterygookwithchocsonthetree · 30/12/2006 10:15

Don't tell me any more! He wants shooting!

WideWebWitch · 30/12/2006 10:16

!

Carmenere · 30/12/2006 10:16

Does it matter if her name is on the deeds in a divorce?

Sobernow · 30/12/2006 10:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Judy1234 · 30/12/2006 10:55

If her name isn't on the deeds, that person below, they should register their right of occupation - go to the Land Registry web site to get the form. Then the husband can't sell the house or mortgage it without notice to the wife.

On the value of services point I accept 4 in 5 women prefer to be with men who earn more than them. It's an important psychological issue for them known as "marrying up". Woemn do it all the time. Men will say they aren't bothered what she earns (as long as she's pretty adn sexy etc) but women look at the job, status, income etc of the man. They may not do it consciously but so many earn less than their man it's a clear pattern. It also makes some men feel good to earn more as well.

On the question of the value of a stay at home parent (male or female) services depends on the marriage. In some marriages the wife does nothing, stays at home but the husband does all the childcare from 6pm, all the up in the nights, all weekends and all housework, rare but I've come across it several times. Other marriages the wife does indeed do everything even when the husband is home so her bought in services might well be £150k of gross income. Even there if the man earns say £750k as in the Macfarlane divorce case, his financial value is higher (or she if it's a woman paying out to their husband in divorce as I did).

I was a bit tongue in cheek. In our marriage we always shared everything but we both had a same view of money, both very careful, never had over draft, credit card debt, happy to buy things second hand etc very very lucky we had the same view. In other marriages the man or woman over spends and if you've got any sense you separate finances to ensure you don't get mired into their financial problems.

A few people are suggesting on this thread that money equals love - that the man who shares all the money or gives the non working wife money is showing love. Interseting materialism for supposedly unmaterialistic non working mothers.

I can't help being post divorce and cynical, having seen so many people before and after divorce, people happy to share everything when married and not so happy when they split up. Give up careers at your peril given the number of marriages breaking up.

Certainly in most marriages both people share money. If you love someone enough you want to die for them, never mind jointly decide how you'll spend the £1m 2006 City bonus. We have moved in English divorce law very quickly recently fro a position that on divorce all the lower earner got was their reasonable needs met to a position where they get 50% even if that is 50% of the £200m he or she earned or inherited or won on the lottery. Most lower earners will think that is a good thing. I think it's morally wrong and treats lower earners as an appendage in a way and does women down and ensures they realise their best investment is keeping a rich man happy, much better than getting good A levels and running Nat West Bank.

tigermoth · 30/12/2006 10:59

The power of money. How sad to see your friend so worn down. I also have a friend in a controlling relationship - no children but her partner is very possessive and selfish. She has a high powered job, lots of interests and friends and no ties, but she still felt unable to escape him.

However she walked out just before christmas, taking hardly anything with her and is afraid to go back to collect any of her stuff. She is convinced she has lost her share of the equity in the house despite paying half the mortagae and her name is on the deeds. She has seen a solicitor but still feels this way. She just can't believe her ex will let her have a penny, he has brainwashed her so much.

Dinosaur · 30/12/2006 11:17

Blimey, Xenia, for once I actually agree with you [swoons emoticon].

In the 20 years I've worked in the City I've noticed a definite shift from women planning to have careers which are as successful and well-remunerated as those of their male contemporaries, to women aiming to meet and marry a high-earner. Not all women, of course - not by any means, but I have noticed it and it makes me feel sad and angry (and quite glad I don't have daughters).

NotEqual · 30/12/2006 11:43

Tigermoth,I take your point about the food bill,but the £600 included petrol,so morelike £450 on food. Can I just make clear that my DH doesn't run up credit card bills,he pays them off each month,Because there is plenty of money left over in his account.My debt is a combination of loss of income for a couple of months on maternity leave,and yes I admit frittering some money on clothes etc.BUT there is still alot of money in what should be the Family pot ,not just the £80k savings (higher than that really) but also every month,well in excess of £1000.Neither of us are extravagant.I suppose my resentment stems a little from this.Let me make it clear though I love my husband,I appreciate(most of the time!) his financial prudence.He is a good man.This is just an issue we differ on,and I wanted other opinions to help me understand both our views and hopefully come to an understanding that suits us both and the family.
Oh,he gets plenty of sex (from me) by the way!!

OP posts:
motherinfurrierfestivefrock · 30/12/2006 11:46

That is really sad, Dino.

GDG, I can't be arsed to manage DP's finances. He got them into this mess, he's getting them out of this mess. He's an adult, he can cope. I love him and all, but what with having a job and two kids I'm a bit too busy.

Judy1234 · 30/12/2006 11:49

I'm always berating my daughters who know some very rich boys about this. I hope they realise that being someone's appendage, kept, retained for your beauty, breeding ability and sexual skills may not be as satisfying as a fulfilling career but I fear looking at the stay at home mothers who tend to live around me that they find it easier to spend the morning at the gym, leaving the au pair to do the school run whilst they're at the hair dressers and then enjoy a short rest before going out with the rich man in the evening.
(Of course most women marry men on the average £20k wage so most of what I write is irrelevant to them)

There are also men who resent the fact they have to commute, travel, work very very long hours, don't get to see their children much and then because they haven't seen them much in effect lose them on divorce. It's the price women who work and have househusbands have too on divorce - I know women who have lost their children on divorce because they earn more and their husbands stayed at home.

You just have to look at the consequences for people who inherit, suddenly earn a lot more, win lotteries to see what bad impact that can have on personal relationships. Perhaps most people should be grateful they hardly have enough to get by.

JoolsToo · 30/12/2006 11:51

Does that apply to any problem your dp might get himself into mi?

It doesn't sound very supportive? (even if he is a klutz!)

motherinfurrierfestivefrock · 30/12/2006 11:59

JT, DP was 34 when I took up with him. He had various overdrafts. Actually, most of the blokes I've ever had anything to do with have various overdrafts.

It really, really isn't my business to sort out his career and money as well as my own. He is perfectly intelligent, and indeed has now managed to get himself a job that pays enough to sort out these various overdrafts. In the meantime, as I've said below, I've had two babies and paid for some time off with them and sorted out the childcare and paid more than he has towards childcare and earned a really quite decent living as a freelancer and generally been really quite occupied.

WideWebWitch · 30/12/2006 13:27

I wouldn't for one minute suggest that women should marry well rather than aim to manage Natwest or whatever, absolutely not. But many many women DO end up being sahms (more women than men I'll bet) and I think it is fair that the law recognises that being a sahp is a contribution which is financially worth something. I think it's Naomi Wolf who says that childcarers are lowly paid because they're competing with the ultimate slave labour: mothers.

So we'll probably have to agree to disagree on the 50/50 awards. I don't think it's morally wrong and I don't think it treats lower earners as an appendage, I think it recognises that Mr or Ms high earner would be extremely hard pressed to run Natwest if they a) had children and b) didn't have somone (a sahp or nannies/paid help) helping to bring them up and do some of the associated hard work involved with havng children and runnng a house. Because food doesn't magically appear on tables, clothes don't magically get washed and children don't magically get put to bed if you're abroad at a work conference. So either the other partner does these things/some of them or you employ someone to do it. And if you're not paying the going rate to an outsider then the other partner is making that contribution by carrying out the tasks. Whatever, you're only free to run Natwest if someone does some of it.

Our set up is that we both work ft oth, I earn more than dh and I would be absolutely happy for this rule to apply were my marriage to break up.

I will teach my daughter that she should do something she wants to do, and I would be gutted if she decided that her main ambition was to marry someone 'rich.' If she's ever a sahp though I will urge her to make sure she's protected by being married or by whatever legal means necessary (some legal agreement anyway) to ensure that she's not shafted financially as a result of being a sahp if the marriage breaks up. I think that happens far too often. And I'll say the same to my son, who has seen both me and dh as sahps.

JoolsToo · 30/12/2006 13:34

"I hope they realise that being someone's appendage, kept, retained for your beauty, breeding ability and sexual skills may not be as satisfying as a fulfilling career but I fear looking at the stay at home mothers who tend to live around me that they find it easier to spend the morning at the gym, leaving the au pair to do the school run whilst they're at the hair dressers and then enjoy a short rest before going out with the rich man in the evening. "

Xenia what happened to you along life's path?

TwoIfBySea · 30/12/2006 13:44

Sorry but if I had money and my dh was running up credit card debts then I wouldn't let him near it either. We have the old-fashioned set up, he goes out to work (not for £80k though, I wish! And so does he!) and I am a stay-at-home-mum.

But we have a good way of communicating about everything, joint account, money issues talked about and we tell each other when we have bought something. I do the budget and work out the bills etc., then we talk about it, sounds like you are missing this. Maybe if you could show him you were sensible and not about to loose everything on credit cards.

It is hard to be financially strapped, be thankful for what you have got but you should be talking to each other more because if you don't have that then it isn't much of a marriage.

TwoIfBySea · 30/12/2006 13:48

And this is going to sound so wrong but being a stay-at-home-mum involves looking after the house and any children. I wouldn't want a life where I had an au pair/nanny/maid to do it, what would I do It would be mind-numbingly boring to have someone there to do it for you.

I'm on the go from 7am to about 11pm with the odd break for myself inbetween doing everything. On days where I am sick, like today, I don't get to lie in bed feeling sorry for myself like dh!

Just my opinion so don't get into a knicker-twist. I just wonder if people hear me say I'm a stay-at-home-mum and think there is nothing to it.

foxinsocks · 30/12/2006 13:56

we too have separate accounts and it's never caused a problem. I think communication is the issue rather than the way your accounts are set up.

Dh is fiendishly bad with money and I'd quite happily never have a joint account with him. I think it'd cause us many more problems than keeping our finances separate!

Freckle · 30/12/2006 14:00

I'm a SAHM. I gave up a good career as a lawyer to become one. My and dh's choice.

My children are now all at school. I have a small part-time job (peanuts in pay) and do voluntary work. If I thought like Xenia, then I would pay someone to look after my children after school, during holidays, sick days, etc. Pay someone to clean my house, etc. And the voluntary work I do wouldn't get done - as you can't pay someone to do it!

This country is held together by mums like me - who contribute in ways which cannot really be quantified financially. And I don't think that makes me better or worse than someone who goes out to work full-time and pays someone else to do all the rest. Just different, but just as essential.

I do think it is sad that children are being raised to believe that they must do all they can to rise up the corporate ladder in order to be financially secure when their marriage goes pear-shaped. Wouldn't it be so much better to raise children who approach marriage with a view to making it a success, rather than preparing for when it fails?

I am raising my 3 boys to take an equal part in all aspects of marriage (actual childbirth apart!) as the chances are that both they and their wives/partners will have to work so sharing the domestic chores will be necessary. The role model I present to them is not one which I expect them to be able to follow but they will get to see that there is more than one option available to couples.

Glitterygookwithchocsonthetree · 30/12/2006 14:08

'Wouldn't it be so much better to raise children who approach marriage with a view to making it a success, rather than preparing for when it fails?'

I bloody love that comment. Love it!
Not being sarcastic btw - I mean it, I totally agree.

Tortington · 30/12/2006 14:12

so, do you ever actually have a conversation?

are you grown up enought o look after children but now adult enough to sit down once a week and go through your joint account details?

this is the question i would be asking him ( as i am cutting up his cards, burning his cheque book and pissing in his new car)

i would demand absolutly a joint bank account with full access. or he would find it very difficult accessing his money becuase each time a ew card came i would cut the fucker up.

Freckle · 30/12/2006 14:12

Phew

motherinfurrierfestivefrock · 30/12/2006 14:16

Hmmm. I've never been in a position to be financially supported by anyone else; I do think I'd like my daughters to approach life on the basis that they will either be able to support themselves financially and/or be able to work out an equitable balance. And yes, the latter would have to include legal protection. People fall out of love. Relationships are hard. Children are incredibly stressful. Love doesn't always conquer all.

Freckle · 30/12/2006 14:18

No it doesn't. But if you have been pre-programmed to believe that it most likely will fail, then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

motherinfurrierfestivefrock · 30/12/2006 14:19

Most of us are programmed the other way, though!