If and how I should tell my brother...

[LHReturns]

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My brother and I were always incredibly close. In our 20s he was married to a lovely girl and the three of us spent lots of time together (or four is us when I had a boyfriend).

About 5 years ago my brother and his wife split up which was very sad for everyone as she was very much part of our family. Fairly soon after he met a new girl - who was very young, vacuous, girly and silly. But she clearly gave my brother lots of things he hadn't had before - namely a great sex life and the chance to be frivolous and young again. So far absolutely fine.

He became totally infatuated with her so, after about a year of dating, when she announced she wanted to move to the USA, he quit his job, and went with her (he bought a business out there so they could both get work Visas etc). He paid all their expenses to move there, and has worked his butt off to try to build his business and keep them afloat. She doesn't make any money as she is a struggling entertainer, so things are tough for them. I have tried to help e.g I have loaned him money and paid for his travel home on a few occasions.

Back when announced the planned move to the US I made it very clear that I felt he was making a rash decision and that he didn't know her that well, she is very young etc etc. At the time she was 22 and he was 32. I probably was quite direct about my feelings (partly because she is a completely ridiculous Instagram-Reality-TV-obsessed bimbo, partly because he had a brilliant career here, but mainly because I was distraught that my brother was leaving the UK). He didn't like this feedback and understandably accused me of hating his new GF, and wanting to ruin his fun, and that I showed no respect for his decisions. Basically told me to FXXK OFF.

I accepted all that, we have grown to be close again now, and I have worked hard since he has lived out there to support him in any way possible. I have been to visit them three times, and paid for him and his GF to fly home to see us all over Christmas. I always include her in any plans.

As a couple they seem fairly happy. But my brother always has a slight defensiveness with me about her since the early falling out.

Over Christmas, by pure chance, I met someone that also knew her - and heard that categorically she is having an affair. She spoke openly about it to someone that she doesn't know that I know. It has been going on about 4 months back where she and my brother live in the US.

This is getting boring so I will stop. I have sat on this knowledge since Christmas as I don't know how to tell my brother without seriously damaging our relationship again. They have just moved into a new apartment with a year long contract,and he and I are very close again, and he (with her) is coming to my wedding later this year - again, at my cost.

I know she is cheating on him. Maybe he suspects, maybe he doesn't - I have no clue. Their relationship is much bumpier than it was when they first met. But I fear that if I tell him it is likely he will accuse me of always hating her, and we will back to where we were a few years back.

I guess I must tell him (and fast as 5 weeks have already passed since I found out). But HOW do I tell him in a way that makes him feel the least judged?

Any constructive ideas seriously welcome!

i really wouldn't tell him, but since you've decided, then don't write it down fgs. tell him to his face through Skype. written words can be misconstrued, forwarded, kept as proof and will NEVER go away. you may bitterly regret them.

I haven't decided I am going to tell him. I am only hypothesising. While also thinking about how I can get him to find out without my involvement at all - as some other posters have suggested.

So far only our mother knows and she is totally against me telling him. She says because she is so worried about it ruining his and my relationship. Truthfully I think it is more that she hates to think of her son going through this.

I tell you what, if I were in your position I wouldn't have too much patience with him if he gets arsey with you. I'd be very matter of fact.

"Yes I suspected you might react like this. Look - I have NOTHING to gain by telling you. What you do is up to you but I care too much and have too much respect for you to NOT tell you. Frankly I'm quite hurt that you think this is any easier for me to tell you than it is for you to hear".

I would probably e-mail him and I would probably say something like:

"I've heard a rumour and I need you to tell me whether you want to hear it or not. I hate to be vague but I'm aware that some people just don't want to know certain things. I've had this information for a couple of weeks and I've struggled with trying to decide whether it's something I should ever bother telling you, and how, because I have no proof.

I wasn't told because I'm your sister, I was told by a friend who didn't even know you or that I was your sister and she was mortified when I realised I knew the parties involved.

You'll probably decide I'm telling you to hurt you but I'm not and I really hope you realise that. I'm not telling you what to do with this information either, and if you choose to not listen or not know more, then I'll respect that. You are my brother and I love you and I will be here for you no matter what.

So please let me know if you'd like to know what I heard. I can tell you who told me, I can tell you a few details, but I don't have any proof. The only person who would be able to hunt for and discover the truth is you. If I started asking too many questions then I'm not sure you'd ever determine if it's the truth or not. "

Phone. Definitely not Skype. And preferably not email.
Phone is the way forward - then he has nothing to show the GF, for one thing, and also if he's very hurt/embarrassed/upset by what you say, he can at least hide his face from you.

But I was also going to suggest having a rough "script" of what you want to say to him written down so you don't either blurt or fall over your words.

Even if you've not decided yet, write down what you want to tell him and how, what points you need to get across etc. Fold it up and look at it again in a few days- look at it with a fresh mind so you are sure you know what you want to say. One point might sound like the right thing to say now but after a bit of thinking and comments on here you might wonder why on earth you would say it. I personally couldn't not say something, I'd constantly think ahead, what if in a years time she gets pregnant? You'll wonder if the baby is your brothers and then it will be too late to warn him. I know you shouldn't live like that but I think in this situation you need to think about the what ifs.

OMG OP. I would have to tell him. But not an envious position to be in for sure. Can't you tell a really close friend of his or something? I know it's passing the buck but... (just trying to protect your relationship with db too).

Couldn't you drop a line to say you chatted to X who knows wifey?

Saying that - why hasn't friend - who must be close to wifey - not told wifey she told you by mistake so to speak??

Wifey may know she's been rumbled and set the scene?

It's not a rumour though, gf spoke about it 'openly' herself to someone she doesn't know the OP knows.

I like sykadelics message.

I would dig deeper and get some evidence first. If that was impossible then I'd email him and tell him that I'd heard something bad about his gf and remind him that I care about him.

I'd judge his response before going further.

Yseulte without proof it's just a rumour, or gossip or hearsay.

The OP heard from a friend, that one of her friends said X. There's no proof and the friend could have made up the story about people she thought the OP didn't know for something interesting and "harmless" to say. It would also explain why the friend was so mortified (OMG she's going to find out I lied to her).

Without proof this could be a damaging lie/made up story and some people don't want to know anything unless there's proof.

A couple of years ago my MIL made a comment to me at a gathering my DH wasn't at, along the lines of a joke about me dating DH's (best) friend before I got together with DH. This is absolute bullshit. When I corrected her, SIL looked at me snidely and said "well that's what I heard". In a panic that this is what someone was telling DH, I immediately texted him about it. He flipped shit of course because they were trying to cause drama again.

It did cause more issues with my toxic in-laws because I went "running to DH" so I asked him whether I did the right thing by telling him. He admits that had he heard that from someone else he wouldn't have come to me first because he would have been worried about it affecting our relationship, so he would have gone to the friend involved and been all WTF about it. It would have caused considerable damage to his friendship and possibly our relationship... all because of some made-up bullshit from his family.

So, because I know people have a penchant for lying and distorting the truth I would want some form of proof. Whether that be photos or dates, names, locations, or enough details for me to then investigate myself. i.e. "when you go to the gym on Tuesday X comes over to your house" so that I could "go to the gym" but come back early in order to catch someone in the act etc.  If you don't give me a way to find out more, and instead just plant a seed, what's the good in telling someone (unless they suspect something that is)?

I agree there's no real proof. FWIW here's my 'tiers of proof' starting with the 'best' proof

1-I saw it with my own eyes
2-I saw a picture/heard a recording of it
3-I heard it from someone I know well and consider unimpeachable who saw it themselves or was told by involved party
4-I heard it from someone I know passably well who saw it or heard it themselves
5-I heard it from someone I really don't know well who saw it etc etc
6-I heard it from someone who heard it from someone

In this case you are at level 4 or 5. I'd consider that a 'rumour'.

Rumour or gossip is simply a circulating narrative, of doubtful validity, potentially without any substance or connection to the individuals concerned.

Viz Liam Neeson and Kristen Stewart.

In this case gf confided directly in a friend about this affair and this was communicated to the OP.

Now, it may not be true, but it's not technically a rumour, and billing it thus is misleading.

OP has no proof, but it's not her job to provide proof, it's for her brother to investigate if he wants to.

Surely the OP would only need 'proof' if she was accusing her DB's partner, she's not, she's considering telling him what someone is gossiping about. The point made, is that the OP's neutral and passing on what was said in order that DB and his DP can resolve it - even if resolving it means stopping spurious gossip.

Why assume they will split
He might forgive her or not believe the rumours!
That puts op in the position of marriage breaker or liar?

I would totally tell.

If I found out and then found out that my brother had known all along...

This is a tough one, OP. A really tough one, and I feel for you. I once told a friend about her boyfriend cheating and I hated being put in that position. We only spoke after they got divorced (Yep, she married him!)

Maybe, just maybe, you could kind of work into the conversation like, "It's the gossippy bits of celebrity that I can't imagine are easy. Like, I've already heard stuff about your wife and she's just getting started, it's crazy..."

And go from there?

P.s. stop loaning money. His decisions, he should pay for them.

Op it's a difficult one, but if I was your brother I'd like to know, even if only to protect my health. His gf could be HIV positive.

I'd send a phony letter from a UK GUM clinic, asking her to come in for another appointment, as they wanted to discuss her results with her, and also that she should advise her sexual partner/s from X date to be tested.

I'd send it to him.

Or if that's too left field, I'd tell the most gossipy member of the family.

Hope your wedding goes well, and you have all the family you love there with you.

I think you need to tell him because the friend may tell his GF that she's told you. If the GF comes clean before you do, or if your brother finds out further down the line then her having the "And your sister knew..." parting shot would finish your relationship with your brother completely.

FWIW one of the worst things about discovering my ex was cheating was discovering just how many people knew before I did. For months. It was so humiliating.

I would tell him by email. That way he can scoff and close it down. Then re-read it and have a moment of 'she's shit stirring'. Then he can re-read it as many times as he wants before he has to decide how to deal with it. If it's on the phone he'll have to have some sort of reaction and that might be to hang up before you've had a chance to explain your side of it completely. It also gives you the chance to write, re-write and write again until you are happy with the wording.

Yseulte- In this case gf confided directly in a friend about this affair and this was communicated to the OP.

Now, it may not be true, but it's not technically a rumour, and billing it thus is misleading.

Yes, it is. A better term would be hearsay, which is one of the synonyms of rumour. Hearsay is defined as: "information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate; rumour."

The OP cannot substantiate it, therefore it's a rumour/hearsay. She heard it from someone who claims to have heard it directly from the GF. So the brother will have heard from his sister, that she heard from her friend, that the girlfriend apparently told her... that she's having an affair. Had the sister heard it, over heard it, or had proof of it, that would be different. But she's passing on something someone told her, that she has no way to prove actually was told to her, or just make believe.

Do I believe it's probably true? Yes. But it is not incorrect to tell her DB that she simply heard a rumour. If it makes you more comfortable she could simply say "Someone told me something your GF apparently told them..."

I would not tell him, mainly because this will be incredibly humiliating for him, coming from you, and you and he may never get over that.

I would get your mother to do the informing.

However...
Before any of that, I would hire a PI in the US and get proof. You have the money to loan him for travel -- put it to better use. Any evidence gleaned and given to him can be passed off as your mother's initiative.

If my dh was having an affair and my db didn't tell me and then I found out later (that he had known) I would be furious and humiliated.

It's one thing to feel you have been made a fool of by your partner but then to find that your family sat by and watched you be made a fool of and not intervened, that would be awful. I would wonder whose side they were on if they chose to protect the secret of the person who was deceiving and hurting me.

There have been some great posts on here about how to approach the email/phonecall. I think I would email and then end with: I'll ring at X time today but will totally understand if you want some space and can't speak then. Otherwise, if you want to speak sooner, I'm contactable on my mobile/home phone etc.

Personally I'd want some time to digest the email before having to talk about it.

Hope all ends well OP and good luck.

I'd tell him, no question.

Having been in this situation I would find a way to jake him believe you.

My exh was having an affair and my sister overheard him in the phone to his ow at the time. She tried to make me believe her but she had no proof and he was denying it. I was pregnant at the time and we were about to get married so I wasn't going to throw away what I thought we had. However if DSis could have proven it to me I would have called off the wedding and dumped him.

It ruined our relationship for life because I didn't believe her. I really wished I had believed her.

You need proof that Miss Bimbo can't wriggle out of. Then be prepared to be the target for his pain outlet for a while.