If and how I should tell my brother...

[LHReturns]

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My brother and I were always incredibly close. In our 20s he was married to a lovely girl and the three of us spent lots of time together (or four is us when I had a boyfriend).

About 5 years ago my brother and his wife split up which was very sad for everyone as she was very much part of our family. Fairly soon after he met a new girl - who was very young, vacuous, girly and silly. But she clearly gave my brother lots of things he hadn't had before - namely a great sex life and the chance to be frivolous and young again. So far absolutely fine.

He became totally infatuated with her so, after about a year of dating, when she announced she wanted to move to the USA, he quit his job, and went with her (he bought a business out there so they could both get work Visas etc). He paid all their expenses to move there, and has worked his butt off to try to build his business and keep them afloat. She doesn't make any money as she is a struggling entertainer, so things are tough for them. I have tried to help e.g I have loaned him money and paid for his travel home on a few occasions.

Back when announced the planned move to the US I made it very clear that I felt he was making a rash decision and that he didn't know her that well, she is very young etc etc. At the time she was 22 and he was 32. I probably was quite direct about my feelings (partly because she is a completely ridiculous Instagram-Reality-TV-obsessed bimbo, partly because he had a brilliant career here, but mainly because I was distraught that my brother was leaving the UK). He didn't like this feedback and understandably accused me of hating his new GF, and wanting to ruin his fun, and that I showed no respect for his decisions. Basically told me to FXXK OFF.

I accepted all that, we have grown to be close again now, and I have worked hard since he has lived out there to support him in any way possible. I have been to visit them three times, and paid for him and his GF to fly home to see us all over Christmas. I always include her in any plans.

As a couple they seem fairly happy. But my brother always has a slight defensiveness with me about her since the early falling out.

Over Christmas, by pure chance, I met someone that also knew her - and heard that categorically she is having an affair. She spoke openly about it to someone that she doesn't know that I know. It has been going on about 4 months back where she and my brother live in the US.

This is getting boring so I will stop. I have sat on this knowledge since Christmas as I don't know how to tell my brother without seriously damaging our relationship again. They have just moved into a new apartment with a year long contract,and he and I are very close again, and he (with her) is coming to my wedding later this year - again, at my cost.

I know she is cheating on him. Maybe he suspects, maybe he doesn't - I have no clue. Their relationship is much bumpier than it was when they first met. But I fear that if I tell him it is likely he will accuse me of always hating her, and we will back to where we were a few years back.

I guess I must tell him (and fast as 5 weeks have already passed since I found out). But HOW do I tell him in a way that makes him feel the least judged?

Any constructive ideas seriously welcome!

I'd have to tell. I couldn't cope with him finding out, and then finding out that I knew and didn't tell.
Yes, you'll cop fall out from it, but you will either way - and at least if you tell him that will be off your conscience.

But I do think you have to be very careful about stating that she's having an affair - perhaps you could tell him that you met this mutual friend, and it was the funniest thing, she was talking about someone with the same name as his GF, who is going out with someone with the same name as him, who is having an affair - but that couldn't possibly be his GF, could it? Could it?

So you're not telling him, you're asking him - and sowing the seeds in his mind.
However, even if she is having an affair, you have to bear in mind that he may still decide to stay with her. She may lie, she may say it was a fling and it's all over and it's truly him she loves - all of that. And they may stay together.

But I also agree with the PP who said cut off their funding.

I really disagree with the "funniest thing" type approach. That sounds more manipulative and interfering than just being honest. Just spit it out: word for word, with no judgement, this is what she said.

I think that people say "shoot the messenger" because it's an easy well known phrase and because, yes sometimes it happens. But always? Her brother is an intelligent man. Perhaps he'll act like he's ignoring the message, perhaps he'll say a quiet thank you and she'll hear no more, perhaps he'll say "fucking hell sis, I knew something was up - seems you were right all along!"

Who knows. Shooting the messenger isn't the only response. In fact, I bet if you posted on here "who has been a messenger / received a messenger: were you shot / did you shoot" then a lot of people would say no, no I didn't.

If it were me, I'd confront HER and tell her in no uncertain terms that I know what's going on and that if she doesn't come clean then you'll have no choice but to tell him yourself. No matter how she tries to spin it to him, if you were lying to try and break them up you'd have no reason to go to her first. Do it by email so you have everything in writing to show him if necessary. Maybe get your mutual friend to email you with exactly what she knows, too. Good luck.

Is mutual friend invited to the wedding?

Do people believe the worst of their nearest and dearest? Yes, of course they do, if they don't want to hear what they are being told. Say nothing OP. You will be the bad guy and he won't be able to disconnect you telling him from the bad thing itself. Whereas if he finds out himself, which is very likely, he will remember that you were sceptical about her but supportive and he'll be more likely to feel he can lean on you. Hard as it is, keep quiet and let events run their course. I wouldn't even try the tactic of telling him but making out you don't believe the story. That's hard to pull off and he's quite likely to see through that.

You need him to find out. Not necessarily from you though.

Im not sure from what you say that you can categorically know yes, she is having an affair. But if I knew my brother's gf was having an affair I 100% would tell him - no way would I keep a secret like that, stand by while someone makes a fool of him. I wouldn't be blunt about it though, Id tell him diplomatically. Would your brother really fall out with you over this? You are funding him so you must be close. Im close with my brothers we get on really well but no way would I be funding a grown man who upped and crossed the world for the sake of a woman, he'd have to either make the path he chose work for them both, or come home. But as said you must be close so if you are sure then tell him.

Imagine if he found out she was having an affair and then, that you knew all along...

Meant to add, on the other hand he may already know. But not want to face it. After all he's besotted isn't he.. miles away in a different country with no financial stability, all for the sake of this young woman. He may want to keep her by any means necessary. So be prepared for a fallout if its the case he already knows but hopefully it wont come to that

Following on from Cabrinha's post, I had to tell my sister that her then long-term BF was having an affair after I found out in the extremely similar circumstances as the OP. I was the messenger and did not get shot.
I also had to tell my friend that her BF had tried to kiss me - and again I was not shot.(Both men were swiftly dumped btw)

You absolutely have to tell him (caution: ONLY if you know with 100% certainty that it's ongoing!). Whatever happens will not be as bad as if he finds out for himself and then discovered that you knew all along and kept it from him.

You make a very persuasive case for telling him, Cabrinha, but if he's anything like one of my dbs he'd cut his nose off to spite his face in order not to lose face and he'd have no compunction about avoiding any social gathering where the bearer of bad news would be if he, erroneously or otherwise, thought it would result in him becoming the subject of speculation by others.

Given the circumstances the OP has described, I wouldn't risk it unless I was prepared for him to come up with some spurious reason or other to not attend my wedding, and I wouldn't put any money on him coming back to me 'in time' as his sense of humiliation at being proved wrong about his gf after I'd previously given him fair warning as to the rashness of his decision to move to the U.S with her would ensure he'd keep his distance.

I wouldn't have a problem with my other db and I'd have no compunction about relaying the information to him within minutes of it being told to me as he knows I'd take no pleasure in being proved right. However, while my eldest brotber knows I would derive no satisfaction whatosever from imparting such news, he would nevertheless stand on his dignity and close ranks against me - or anyone else who told him unpalatable news about any woman he'd chosen to emotionally invest in after he'd ignored their earlier warning.

Some of us shoot the messengers, others reward them. As only you know your db it can only be your call as to whether to reveal or withhold your knowledge, OP.

I would tell him. Kindly. And I'd also tell him I hoped he wouldn't 'shoot the messenger' but would understand if he did, and would always be ready to talk at any point.

Background: I have done exactly this with a very close friend. She did her own checks, of course, and knew what she was looking for thanks to shared info. (She found more than expected, but that's not part of the story.) I couldn't let someone I care for charge ahead in ignorance, any more than I'd let them drive a car I knew had a lethal fault.

If OP doesn't reveal that she ever knew, I don't see how he'd find that out. She has already said the person who told her doesn't know her brother. So I don't think that would be much of a risk, compared to clumsily raising the topic which I think would be pretty obvious.

Assuming he finds out the hard way and wants to cry on his sister's shoulder, TQ, she'll then have to be fake all the way through comforting him. I would feel like a complete shit.

Tendon "I don't see how he'd find that out"

Because secrets have a way of coming out, accidentally, sometimes. He could meet the person who told the OP, or she may feel later on that she needs to confess to having known all along, or it might just slip out one day.

Or he might read it on Mumsnet...

Ask yourself what you'd want if the positions were reversed, and how you'd feel if your DB knew and didn't tell you.

I'd word it 'Listen, I think you and XXX should know what's going round here. No idea if it's true or not but someone (or name the person) who knows XXX told me that she is having an affair. She had no idea that I was your sister when she told me. Again, I have no idea if it's true but I thought you and XXX should know what's being said'. That comes across more that you're trying to warn both of them of gossip rather than tittle-tattle on her, iyswim. Anyway you say it I'm sure Ms Bimbo will deny it, but you've done your 'duty' and it's your DB's problem from then on.

If it were me, I'd rather know sooner as opposed to later.

I like across' idea. But out in enough detail that if he wants to look into it further, then he can.

I'm with Cabrinha too. I am usually all for keeping out of these things, but this is your brother. Be careful how you pick your words, make it clear that you take absolutely NO pleasure in telling him, tell him you don't even know for sure if it's true, but you cannot sleep at night having heard what you heard and not giving him the chance to deal with it in whichever way he sees fit.

Give him the name of the person that told you, too. He will probably be able to find out from that person's name if she and his girlfriend are close enough that it's likely she would have access to this kind of info were it true. Or at least it will start a trail of crumbs.

Tell him.

Can you word it in a way that it's clear you're only offering support and not to attempt to split them up? For example, say that many couples go through rocky patches and it's not impossible to work through this. People make mistakes. Etc etc.

I also think you should tell him what you know, which is that this person says his GF is having an affair.

If this person told you, who else might they be telling?

So, if it is just a rumour, that could be just as damaging.

If it was a friend, I might say keep quiet, but it's your brother, with whom you presumably want an honest, meaningful relationship for a good long time. How could he trust you if/when it came out you'd kept this from him? It's a horrible position to be in OP, and you're likely to be damned either way, but I'd think losing trust in you would more surely affect your relationship long term than being angry at you for being the messenger.

What about asking him? Eg 'Dear DB, I find myself in a really awkward position having heard something negative about X from a mutual friend. If it were me, I would want to know, but I'm so aware of the fallout from our previous conversation and I would hate our relationship to be affected in the same way again, because I care about you so much. If you don't want to know any more, don't reply to this and I won't mention it again; I promise to respect your decision either way.'

Fwiw I did this with a friend who said he did want to know, asked for some space when I told him and then thanked me for putting it within his agency after a month or so.

Tell him what? All you really have is some hearsay gossip no hard evidence. I'm not doubting your mutual friend but seriously you have no provable facts. On the other hand GF and DB have several years evidence of your dislike of her.

If you say anything she will deny it and turn everything on you and your previous dislike of her.

Give it time, as said up thread she will eventually leave or be caught out and then you support your DB.

Plenty of people do not shit bricks when they are discovered.
The massive selfishness that let then cheat in the first place means they just lie, minimise, act disdainfully...

Honestly, that's like the advice I so often see on here that says "watch his face when you tell you - you'll know". Sorry - bollocks. Cheats are very often entitled liars.

And as for advice to leave it because he'll find out anyway? Yeah, he probably will find out about this affair or the next or the next... But it could easily be YEARS. He could start a family with her first.

As go having no proof - no, so OP can't say "your GF is a cheating bitch". She should just tell the facts: X person told me Y.

For those saying she'll lose her relationship with him, potentially... well, I hope not - but maybe. But this close relationship now - doesn't she lose that anyway, doesn't it change? How can she look him in the eye, be her normal self when she sees him, knowing what she knows?

I am really touched that so many of you have bothered to apply your thoughts to my rubbish situation. Thank you so much - all of you speak good sense, and I guess the differing views at least reinforce my initial reaction that I am in a shxt position.

He was always my favourite sibling, I love him to pieces, and when he left the UK I was distraught for a long time. I worked hard to rebuild the relationship, which meant embracing her too. I have done that despite struggling with seeing him totally broke, wearing shoes with holes while she swans around in her BMW.

There is an increased risk of falling out with him badly now as Penfold says above - they have plenty of evidence of my initial dislike of her - and as Shoes says, she is no fool. Her behaviour is vacuous and ridiculous but she is one of those women that always lands on her feet.

I will stop loaning money - agreed. It was nearly always selfish anyway because it meant he could travel to see me, when otherwise I wouldn't be able to.

I am especially fearful of a huge fallout now because I am NC with my father (actually he is NC with me - I continue to try with him) and he won't be at my wedding, so can't give me away etc. So the notion of two close family members wanting nothing to do with me when I get married is too painful to imagine.

Thank you again - you have all been very generous with your thoughts .