silly childish in laws

[sphinxster]

I've posted about this previously: in laws "devastated" and ignoring us because dh and I gave ds my surname as well as his/theirs.
DS is now 4 months old and they're still giving us the silent treatment. DH messages them updates about ds and sends photos. They've recently decided they want to Skype once a week to see ds (we live overseas). So once a week we have these awful silent Skype sessions where they won't acknowledge dh ( I don't get involved).
Talking to dh today that I really didn't like it and how long was he going to allow it. He says he doesn't want to stop them seeing their grandchild and wants to be the bigger person. I think they're the ones that are stopping themselves from seeing their grandchild and they should only be allowed to see him if they are willing to show some respect to his parents/us.
I'm really pissed off about their behaviour and even though he's too young to know what's going on, I don't want him exposed to this ridiculous behaviour.
WWYD? AIBU?

Just for the record OP, I think you are being totally and completely reasonable over this. IMO the days of women taking their husbands names are beginning to be over. We are no longer 'the property of men' once we become married, which I believe it was all about anyway.

I see no problem in your family decision with regards to names and hope that it all works out well for you eventually, although I have my doubts.

Has he responded to their text yet?

You didn't did you?

RTFT that is or the op apparently The frantic back pedalling kinda did the trick but it might be better next time just to say 'oh shit, sorry, thought this was one where my backward patriarchal worldview might look vaguely sane. See it's not now. As you were. .'.

I've been following your thread Sphinx, & FWIW, I think that your ILs are a pair of narrow-minded, controlling, dysfunctional dinosaurs.
Thankfully, the 1950's Seven Brides for Seven Brothers mentality has been replaced by choice and tolerance. If you want your son to also have your name, then you do it. It is totally right for you and nobody has any right to tell you otherwise.

I've been following your thread appalled at the behaviour of your in laws.

I think some people on this thread have totally missed the point stitch. Yes, we all know that names are a contentious issue. We have all heard stories of families disapproving of relative's name choices and having a sulk or even a super duper argy bargy. Your in laws don't like your name choice - so far, so normal. A normal family might raise eyebrows behind your back. They might express their unhappiness to your faces and then shut up. They could even keep on muttering and grumbling every time the name subject arises. But in the end, a normal family knows it's only the parents' choice.

What is by no means normal is the way your in laws are trying to exert control over your dh and you by cutting comunication with you both. In what conceivable way do they think this is rational behaviour? They risk potentially losing their relationship with their own son and precious grandson through a sulk. It's extremely manipulative and narcissitic.

FWIW we named our dcs both our surnames (like you) and my dad was strongly against us doing this because it's not traditional in his culture. (He's very elderly, very conservative). Despite his opinion, which he has told us clearly, he has never once sulked, grumbled or ever tried to undermine our decision because he's not a manipulative narcissist.

I'm afraid it sounds like your inlaws are so deeply entrenched in their patterns that it's unlikely they'll have the capacity to consider their behaviour objectively. They are not going to suddenly realise they are being unreasonable because I guess their strategies at manipulating your dh's behaviour have up to now always been successful and this then reinforces for them the feeling that they are right. I think your dh will need to spell out very clearly in absolute specifics how they need to behave if they want to retain contact. So perhaps an email with some rules along the lines of when, where, how:

Hi Mum and Dad From now on if you would like to contact us through skype it must be a friendly and respectful experience for everyone involved. Therefore you will greet whichever adult is there with ds and make friendly conversation. You will not complain, ignore or otherwise behave disrespectfully towards either myself or sphinxster. . If you cannot comply with this we will no longer be able to continue our contact. Love DH

The dh will need to be super duper tough and stick exactly to his rules - no excuses (oh but they didn't mean it) no second chances (but they love ds so much). The minute his mum starts ignoring him or his dad starts huffing and puffing he swithces off skype. For good.

Good luck little Sphinxster family. There are rocky times ahead while you all learn to live in the new way but it can be done and it's so worth doing.

I think to some people the name thing is a big deal, undoubtedly. But it´s usually people of a certain generation in my experience. And these fossils are stuck in the chuffing Dark Ages! Most oldies move with the times, even if reluctantly, but they do have to admit that times change.

I´m just wondering what would´ve happened if the ILs had 3 daughters instead of sons....and they all got married and took their husbands´ names. I realise it´s not relevant to this situation but hypothetically, their name would have died out anyways. So there´ll be a lot of relics out there, like the ILs here, where this would have happened and they´ll have just had to suck it up. Not worth sacrificing a relationship with your Grandkids over.....unless you´re a toxic, abusive, dysfunctional arse obv, so couldn´t give 2 hoots!

Sphinx Sorry I can´t remember if you said your son was their only Grandkid? If there´s others, presumably they have kept the family name? If your son is their only Grandkid so far, then that just means even more pressure being applied to you! Crikey, you must be so relieved you´re abroad! Safely distanced from their Psycho Death Stare!!

Do they go and visit the other brother who lives abroad? Wonder why he isn´t NC.....For sure, if you spoke to his wife I´m sure you´d get more home truths/horror stories of what they´ve/she´s endured. She will definately not be the bitch they´ve depicted, going by the picture you´ve painted of them for us. Maybe you could all rally together as a united front to defeat the Forces of Darkness, Lord of the Rings stylee??

Moomin or what if fluffy had been a girl? Would it be so much of an issue?

Our ds is their only "blood grandchild" (as they so nicely put it). Their other grandchild is a female and will therefore not be encouraged to have autonomy in life (maybe she should go to uni to find a suitor though).

It's a shame I've never spoken to or met the other evil DIL, I'd really like to hear her version of events at this point (not productive or useful but just for the shits & giggles!!).

I understand they have placed great importance in their name and are disappointed but their reaction to this is absolutely irrational. As a PP said, tutting and grumbling are the normal reaction.

Their behaviour is horrid.

I don't think he's received a response yet. Unless this response is "you're right, it's not as important as you and fluffy being happy & healthy and we really want to rebuild our relationship with you and get to know our grandson" he's got to send the boundaries / ultimatum email.

Precisely. God their attitude really is like something from the Victorian era or beyond!

Well at least you guys have a plan. You may just have to nudge your OH now and again to stop him being engulfed by the FOG completely, but it sounds like ¨the awakening¨ is happening for him anyways.

BTW they are so not deliberating what response or course of action to come up with next, they´re deliberately making him wait and stringing you along with these extended gaps in communication. A pathetic last grasp for control over the situation and you both. Mentalists!

My thoughts exactly regarding the prolonged wait for replies!

Your ILs behaviour is not just horrid Sphinxster, it is dysfunctional!.

Ah yes, making you wait an age for a response/diatribe is normal. I can well imagine such a response from them.

Their behaviours were never really about the surname; it was about them wanting power and control over you both and by turn your child. They have always been like this. They have successfully manipulated your DH to date so much that he is and remains in a fear, obligation and guilt state with regards to them.

The only way for you both going forward is to disengage totally and stop taking any part in their power games.

We dithered for ages over the surname we should choose for mini skip. You just make whatever desicion is best for your family.
I have a considerable amount of work published under my maiden name and I didn't want to give it up, but I also wanted mini skip to have his dad's name (we aren't in the uk and my surname is hard to pronounce for people here) and also make things easier for travelling.

I ended up changing my surname to dhs, mini skip got it too so we all have same one and I moved my maiden name to a middle name.

You do whatever is right for you. Both surnames sounds like a good solution to me.

I feel very sorry for your dh. If you're showy him this I'll add my voice to those saying that this is an incredibly dysfunctional way of behaving. At the end of the day though, you and he are adults but fluffy is a small, impressionable human and needs protection from this madness. Don't underestimate how much even young children pick up on situations like this. They may not understand it the way you do but they will soak up the emotional background, so to speak.
I had a similar situation as a kid (not name related but charged with all sorts of animosity between adults) and it made me extremely anxious. That anxiety has never gone.

Protect your little family unit from these malign influences. Be detached, set out what you want in clear and dispassionate language and then do not JADE (justify, apologise, defend or explain.) don't negotiate. Be a broken record.

Incidentally... Did they have a strop when he moved abroad?

Yep, iLs are playing a game of 'who blinks first'. Never, ever play that game. By caving and being first to contact you're making them feel they still have the upper hand and that you (DH, actually) are a supplicant for their approval.

Still no reply and dh has finished his email ready to send once ds is in bed. The email clearly states that ds's name is their problem and they're the ones hurting themselves and cutting themselves out. It's quite assertive for him.

*Child is willing to have a relationship with the parent IF the parent will change. The child's ideal future relationship is different from the original, unsatisfactory relationship.

Parent considers change unnecessary, is insulted by the request, feels controlled by the child.The parent's ideal future relationship is similar to the original, satisfactory relationship.

Child is waiting for parent to change.

Parent is waiting for child to stop this foolishness.

No change in the parent = no change in the child = reconciliation fails.*

www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/notes-all-or-nothing.html

Response (I can't remember it verbatim):

They're proud of their surname but obviously we're not.

We don't care about their feelings.

They don't know how he could have a different surname on his passport to his parents.

He must have been born with dh's surname and we changed it.

Do they really not understand that it's perfectly legitimate for children to take their mother's name!! It's all about them and how they feel, that they have some ownership of our child because they're the paternal grandparents.

So what happens now? Is this the response to your husband´s email?

Is this where he basically tells them to either deal with it or fuck off?! Or words to that effect?....

So what happens now? Is this the response to your husband´s email?

Is this where he basically tells them to either deal with it or fuck off?! Or words to that effect?....

There's no point in engaging with this further. They clearly do genuinely believe that babies are in some magical way imbued with their father's surname and only their father's surname at birth. That this is the 'natural order'. The fact that it clearly isn't true, nor is it even the tradition of many countries here in Europe, let alone further afield, means nothing to them.

I think it is fair to say you don't care about their feelings in this regard, you have made your decision as is your right as Fluffy's parents, they can choose how they react to that.

Don't even mention the question of being proud or not of a name. It's just another trap.

This is the response to the text. He's now going to send the email with a few amendments in response to this text but from what he's just said, I think the email will be along the lines of 'deal with it or fuck off'.

He's fuming... Is this him emerging from the FOG?

Oh! Just recalled another sentence: "we assume that's why you had problems getting fluffy's passport".

Nope! We had problems getting fluffy's passport because we're both non-resident uk citizens and had to send off our parents' birth certificates. Not even the passport office are that patriarchal and antiquated.

Oh I hope S.
Lots of red herrings, dismissals and avoidances in their responses. Time to get off the bus of bonkersness.

Absolutely no point engaging further, this is now an exercise for dh to get his feelings out in this email and then close the door on them.

You know, you both could turn it round and say that they don´t care about your feelings. Your son has the family name and he also has your name, his mother´s. WTF about your feelings in all this? Your his mother not a bloody Brood Mare!

They would quite happily go round and round in circles and it would get you both precisely nowhere. It´s a pathetic game. So now your OH is meant to feel guilty for not doing what they want? Fuck that!

They get over it or fuck off.....as I´ve prev said, let them cut off their noses to spite their toxic faces! Fucking loonies!! Good for your OH, we´re rooting for him!!

Plus, he now knows this is soo much more than about the surname. It´s about him wanting to escape from their control. I´m glad he´s starting to have some realisation as the reality sets in.

Dear Mum and Dad,

We are equally proud of both our surnames and hope ds will be too. We have no more to say on the subject.

The issue that needs resolving is whether you can treat us both with politeness and respect. When you feel able to do that, please do contact us again.

love Mr Sphinxter