If your father left you to die [Trigger warning for addiction/alcoholism added by MNHQ]

[WildeWoman]

By leaving you to die, I mean 'she's an alcoholic, what can you do'.

And you later found out that he may have been complicit in welfare fraud..........

Would you report him?

Unless you lived in a family you don't have the background knowledge

I wish that would be universally remembered on here!

I can't agree with that. I think the issue is that on this thread the OP is likely still drinking and therefore it's reasonable to draw certain conclusions such as that she's not a reliable witness to the situation.

To be fair to garlic and other posters it only became clear further on in the thread that she may still be drinking.

I don't agree that validating an alcoholic's feeling of being victimised is helpful though.

I think there are situations where, broadly, supporting people who are stating family members and partners are abusive by believing them is helpful.

I think, broadly, stating a partner is abusive when an OP describes abusive behaviour is helpful too.

Fact is, we are NEVER going to have the full story and claims of being the victim of abuse should be believed, abuse should be suggested as an explanation often too. A minority of people the 'full story' will paint a different picture as in this thread where the op is still drinking.

We can't go around asking people who claim to be victims to prove it for the sake of a minority of people for whom it's not the full truth. That would be damaging.

I think it matters a lot whether an alcoholic is still drinking or not.

Being an alcoholic and having behaved awfully to other people doesn't wipe out horrible things other people have done to you.

Op's father may well be a horrible man. What people can say reasonably is that he's not been horrible by not providing his still drinking alcoholic daughter with a home at his expense after she drank her previous one away and her feeling he has is likely part of her active addiction.

I do think letting a sober alcoholic go into a halfway house with addicts when you could have helped her get on her feet and stay off the drink is cruel.

OP's situation is different, she's still drinking.

I do think letting a sober alcoholic go into a halfway house with addicts when you could have helped her get on her feet and stay off the drink is cruel

What if it wasn't the first time? What if you'd taken in that sober alcoholic, fresh out of rehab, four times previously? Each time willing and desperate to help them get back on their feet. Only to have to watch whilst they crash and burn- turning homes into toilets, stealing, lying and destroying themselves. Again.

Is there a cut off where families and friends are allowed to say no without being seen as cruel?

I think we all thought "that's not a dry alcoholic" seeing that letter, it oozes drunk self pity. If I was her dad I'd submit it as evidence to the benefit fraud investigation. Maybe her report to them was in a similar style so they don't bother.

it only became clear further on in the thread that she may still be drinking

It was clear to me the moment I read the opening post. All I needed was the word alcoholic teamed with If your father left you to die. This is all I need to switch off to every single other thing that the OP said. Everything will be a lie. Not a deliberate, malicious lie, but definitely not a reliable witness.

Drama = drinking = its not a true reflection of facts

All this debate about the correctness of the OPs words - is the brother enabling, is the brother talking rubbish, is the father mean, is the father doing the right thing. Is the OP homeless?

My 6 year old sometimes comes home from school and tells me Messi came to school and played football with them, and he got to wear the Ronaldo shirt and he scored a penalty against Messi. And Mrs Teacher was the referee and gave Luis Suárez a red card! And....

I don't say to my 6 year old "What your saying is preposterous, you are lying. Why are you lying?". I just smile and nod and say "that's nice" and move on.

I've not paid any attention to any of the OPs words. Because she's drunk so the words she says don't matter. That doesn't mean the OP and her feeling don't matter. But her words and feeling when she is drunk don't matter because they are not a true reflection of the facts.

There is just no benefit in becoming emotionally involved (or involved at all) with an alcoholic when drinking. Just smile, nod, ignore and signpost all the help there for them when they decide to sober up.

So I am not really understanding why negativity is being created in relation to differing opinions regarding the OPs father. OP hasn't even mentioned a daughter she (apparently) has. What makes anyone think she has a father at all? I don't take her imaginative thoughts as fact, so wouldn't get het-up about the details.

As the wife of an alcoholic, currently recovering, I feel compelled to comment after reading this thread.

FATE, the dismissal of the alcoholic's narrative is very insiduous and hard to understand to anyone who has not had to experience it. If one is disregarding the lies, the tall stories, the unkind words, the accusations, if follows that one also has to disregard anything else positive uttered whilst under the influence. If one chooses to ignore "you are a fat, disgusting cunt", one also has to ignore "you are wonderful, what would I do without you?".

The emotional detatchment required is incredible and very damaging. To be able to "switch" back on in moments of relative sobriety comes with a heavy price tag for those affected by the alcoholic.

As for you, OP, if you are still reading, all I hear in your posts is "poor me, poor me, pour me a drink". Don't give up trying, as many times as needed. I wish you contentment and peace.

SnowieBear

I am currently supporting an alcoholic, I have been for a good decade now.

The emotional detatchment required is incredible and very damaging. To be able to "switch" back on in moments of relative sobriety comes with a heavy price tag for those affected by the alcoholic.

I don't understand this and cannot relate to it.

I find the emotional detachment essential and highly positive. It is what allows for me to remain sane, well-balanced and to live my own life for the sake of my husband, children and my Mum.

If one chooses to ignore "you are a fat, disgusting cunt", one also has to ignore "you are wonderful, what would I do without you?".

That's right. I would ignore both. I dont need to listen to how great I am from a drunk. I listen when the alcoholic says "You are so kind to look after me" when dry and sober - and I believe that.

The difference I guess is that 'my alcoholic' is my brother (supported by me and Mum). There is a world of difference in my emotional investment in comparison to you Snowie, as a partner. This is why what you say isn't wrong. Neither is what I say. It's just that we come from a different perspective.

FATE, sorry if I didn't express myself clearly. Of course the emotional detatchment is completely necessary for one's own survival. What people don't seem to appreciate is that whilst it is necessary, it is also emotionally demanding and painful. It is not "cost neutral", it leaves its own scars. You can see this in the many posters still filled with doubt and hurt despite having taken the right decisions, for the right reasons.

Blondeonatreadmill you sound amazing.

"you're a cunt and a civil servant"

This continues to make me smile! It's like with the birth of each of my children, my brother has laughed and teased about them being ginger babies. There are not even remotely or slightly ginger haired. Not that it would matter if they were, but not even close. Just seemed really weird because they so clearly weren't. I don't know what was going on in his drunk mind to create these ideas, but with all of my children he has done the same. DH & I actually anticipated it when we had our youngest - I wonder when your brother will make fun of her not-ginger hair?

SnowieBear

You are absolutely right about it being painful and emotionally demanding - it is a hard decision every day because it's not like you can say "here are the boundaries" and expect that to be it. The boundaries are constantly forgotten, ignored, pushed and I have to constantly be on the ball to reaffirm them. That is a hurtful, hard and painful process.

I cant know what the scars will be long term. I sometimes wonder how I will look back on this time in my life.

OP where is your mother in this?
Is she still alive?
Did she help you?
I do hope you will do all in your power to go into rehab and transform your life.

Iampissedoff - It would be nice if you would remember how little real info was in the OP's first post, before you continue to have a go at the early posters. With her subsequent posts, it has become 1000x more apparent what the scenario is more likely to be; but there was very little in her first post that showed all of that.

And I should have read the rest of the posts before posting that

Now you see, that is where the difference lies between those who have lived with alcoholics and those who haven't - YOU and others like you "recognised" it for what it was, the rest of us took it at face value because we have no basis on which to recognise it.

Can we stop now?

I think this has been one of the most valuable threads I've ever read on MN. I feel I want to make everyone I know read it, especially the people I know who see themselves as the life and soul of the party but are always teetering on the brink of having an obvious problem and who are frequently a total pain in the arse for the friends and family who love them and have to deal with the fallout of their benders.

Iampissedoff - I have tried to respond to your PM but am having difficulties - can you please tell me if you've received it? Thank you :)

Bugger. Basically apologies, please stay here. :)

So, my experience of my husbands addiction is such that i'd say I've supported him many people would have walked away. And faced with doing it all again knowing what I do know I would have walked away the first time we met!

Would I, in your father's shoes and if I were financially able, have helped you when you were on the streets? Hell yes!!!

Would you have taken that help, probably not. In fact we might not even have got to the point where I offered it. You seen the first thing we would have done is had a conversation to see where your head was at. Any poor me / lack of responsibility taking would have been ignored or challenged and, eventually, if you said that you wanted off the booze and were willing to go to hell and back to get there and I could afford it I would offer you a place to stay in a residential rehab. Would you have take it?

Personally, i'm not a great believer in hitting "rock bottom" every time someone relapses especially when the will to change is there, but in your case maybe staying on the streets could have got you to a place where anything is better and you might have been ready to stop drinking. Because you can you know. Although like my husband before we met it's sad to hear you don't really believe that.

As for "left to die". Never admitted this to anyone before, but if my husband after 23 years of drug addiction, "just" methadone for most of our 10 year relationship had he died due to his addiction (or linked activities) yes i'd be devastated at the waste of his life, but, and i've never admitted this before, before, overwhelming emotion would be relief that he was finally at peace and would no longer have to face the daily battle not to use, the choice of use or suffer everytime he's let down by support services and the endless cycle of years of stability then chaos that only he can chose to end. And yes, it was obvious you were still drinking.