If your father left you to die [Trigger warning for addiction/alcoholism added by MNHQ]

[WildeWoman]

By leaving you to die, I mean 'she's an alcoholic, what can you do'.

And you later found out that he may have been complicit in welfare fraud..........

Would you report him?

That makes sense that it's the same poster.

That was full of 'life isn't fair' as well.

I am just re-reading the OPs posts on here. It's actually very said how immersed she is in this world where is a victim and anyone who doesn't enable her are vile and deserve her rather and nasty spite.

Btw - my father is a man of 'assets'. He could have gotten me off the streets in 12 hours.

He chose not to.

He chose not to enable her. It's not even really at choice at some point when a loved one is drinking themselves to death you have to stop.

The text message she sent is so rambling and self indulgent. I am pretty sure I could have spotted an alcoholic sent that, without knowing the back story.

Sounds a very similar style to something my grandad would have rambled whilst trying to convince us he didn't have a problem.

I commented near the beginning. It reminded of how people still think I let my mother down by not doing enough to save her. I lost touch with an awful lot of people because of it. I got accused of being a heartless daughter and it's something that I struggled to deal with. I wish I never clicked on the thread, that's why I asked mumsnet to put the trigger warning on the title.

But now I've read all the thread and seen how it's turned around it's made me feel less like a failure.

But now I've read all the thread and seen how it's turned around it's made me feel less like a failure

You aren't. We managed to get grandad sober. Only because he is in a home and his daughter who smuggled drink in has been banned from the home.

He is violent when drunk. His social workers went to court and stopped her having access. She is also an alcoholic.

He isn't sober through choice. He just can't get any.

Sometimes there is nothing you can do.

Iampissedoff - yes, I'll answer you. I was one of the first posters, and taking the OP's post at face value, it did seem "fair enough". But people with far more experience and knowledge, and understanding, brought out from the OP further information, that showed her to be very much not in a recovery situation (as I'd hope she was) - and indeed my opinion has changed about the OP and what she has done (or said she was going to do).

I don't have direct experience, as I said - my sister's MIL is the only alcoholic I know, and (as I said) she's been dry for 20 years, or thereabouts. BUT - my BIL (DH's brother) has problems with alcohol and social behavioural issues, and I watch my MIL deal with that. She doesn't give up on him either, although as far as we can tell he's not an alcoholic as such, he doesn't drink all the time, he's not a binge drinker either, but alcohol affects his personality and he quickly becomes paranoid and aggressive. He's not "normal" when he's not drinking either - however, it's hard to pin down what is wrong with him. Possibly alcohol-related brain injury, possibly some kind of mental disorder that he self-medicates with alcohol. His mother is convinced it's mental illness; others aren't so sure. But she never gives up on him and has paid out huge amounts of money so far - he's currently in jail because of alcohol, and she's paid for his solicitor. He's due back in court next week and I rather hope he doesn't get out; but I expect he will.

The experiences people have described on this thread, as relatives of alcoholics, have certainly opened my eyes more - and those posts from recovered alcoholics themselves have made me realise (as they have) that the OP is nowhere near recovery.

SwearyGodmother - The deep, hard-work therapy would help in this case, I'm sure. Trouble is, you can't do it while you're still using. As long as you're hiding (from) yourself behind your substances/behaviours, you can't bring anything authentic to therapy.

"he called me a cunt and a civil servant" - sorry, but ! He called you a civil servant? What a bastard

Still catching up and grateful for everyone's posts.

I don't think it's fair to point fingers and criticise people who supported the OP at the beginning of the thread. They were being kind, nothing malicious. Can we concentrate on the OP and the matter at hand rather than vilifying people who were trying to be supportive and listen to a distressed sounding OP?

You are not a failure, captain

Can we concentrate on the OP and the matter at hand rather than vilifying people who were trying to be supportive and listen to a distressed sounding OP?

Maybe the lesson is to ask more questions or be supportive without the default always being 'your father is a shit' type posts.

I guess I was also weary when I saw the OP when I was told by them that they didn't give a fuck about my circumstances when I challenged something someone said.

Captain You aren't a failure at all.

You are not a failure, Captain. We are dreadful, manipulative, aggressive and irrational people when in the throes, whatever our poison. There is nothing anyone can really do to save us, we must do it by ourselves. Frankly I'm surprised more friends and family didn't give up on me, they had every right to after some of my behaviour

Maybe the lesson is to ask more questions or be supportive without the default always being 'your father is a shit' type posts.

This ^^

Especially when the OP says in the first post that she is an alcoholic

Having a loved one with an addiction is the worst thing.
But when the addict is your own child it's a totally different scenario, the guilt and feelings of failure are actually worse now she is no longer here.

coco I am the mother of two addicted children. Did your daughter die?

Just typed a long reply but deleted...

However I agree - Captain, you're not a failure.

I think we all have the right to be "selfish" and pull away from damaged people who cannot (for whatever reason) be changed or helped. I'm never going to be apologetic for creating mental boundaries with mine and moving on - and I don't think anyone who's had to put them up too is a failure.

There just comes a tipping point where you have to protect yourself and deal with the fact that they won't understand that. Easier said than done.

Yes, but everyone has their limits. How many times do you do that and tolerate the backlash? OP says she has tried 20 times to get sober. Does he have to be courageous indefinitely for someone who clearly isnt ready to help themselves when it is impacting on him? And "dont contact me until..." Is easy to say, its also very clear OP would take no heed of that request. Look at the unsolictied bile she sent to her father just days ago

Rude I did it. And it was the very opposite of 'easy to say'. It was the hardest thing I ever did. Harder yet to keep to. At one point I received 22 phone calls in a period of 30 minutes. I did not pick up the phone and ended up blocking his number. I actually vomited when I did that it was so stressing. And TBH, the only things that made me stick to it were a counselor I trusted implicitly, my DH, and the fact that I was at the time temporarily 2500 miles away from home. I was 'thisclose' to flying home to once again rescue him from himself It was 'do or die' and I actually made funeral arrangements for my brother, unbeknownst to him. Because it wasn't about what was easiest for me, what I could 'tolerate'. It was about what would hit my brother the hardest, where it hurt most. It was about taking away that last, final 'crutch'. It may be a case of 'the ends justifying the means', but it worked.

In fairness to the original responders, they come across as more naive than anything else. And it was the middle of the night, maybe they were sleep-deprived too...

Rude I did it. And it was the very opposite of 'easy to say'. It was the hardest thing I ever did

You made a choice to do that. Must everybody do it indefinitely because you did? Or should people set their own boundaries based on their own individual circumstances?

No one in their right mind would suggest someone in an abusive relationship should 'try harder' - and dealing with an alcoholic, however close they are to you, is being in an abusive threesome with you, them, and the bottle. And yet the agony of detaching from exactly that with an alcoholic family member is less socially condoned, I think, than fleeing an abusive partner; as though you're honour-bound to save someone who doesn't want to be saved no matter the cost to your own life, because they're family, right? It's just not true.

In fairness to the original responders, they come across as more naive than anything else

yes but that's the problem. Addicts seek out naive people to spin their stories to. Those naive people who validate that the addict is right.

And I could agree with this more

No one in their right mind would suggest someone in an abusive relationship should 'try harder' - and dealing with an alcoholic, however close they are to you, is being in an abusive threesome with you, them, and the bottle. And yet the agony of detaching from exactly that with an alcoholic family member is less socially condoned, I think, than fleeing an abusive partner; as though you're honour-bound to save someone who doesn't want to be saved no matter the cost to your own life, because they're family, right? It's just not true.

would a poster telling an abuser that their partner should just hang in there in order to help them, be called simply naive?

couldnt agree more

Rude of course everyone should set their own boundaries. But if what they are doing isn't working then perhaps they should try something else.

I have no idea wether there was actually a job for £140 per day

There wasn't. It's all lies. When drinking, every sentence to come out of an alcoholics mouth is a twisted manipulation with only a tentative link to real-life.

I am never sure with my brother how much he thinks is real and how much he knows is lies. So it is hard to be angry with the lying, just make peace with the fact that it's all lies so believe nothing.

An example might be my brother might seeing Tom, his neighbour, using an asthma inhaler one day. This goes through various thought processes during several stages of drunkenness.

• Oh, I didn't know Tom had asthma
• A saw Tom having an asthma attack
• Tom is ill.
• Tom's ill. Something about not being able to breath
• Tom cant breathe
• I saw Tom choking.
• Tom couldn't breath. I think he was chocking and I think he died.
• I watched Tom chocking to death and I stood by and didn't help. Oh God I am awful
• I have run out of cash and cant buy more vodka. Oh, Tom died....
• Phone Mum "Mum, Tom next door has died. Its been horrible, I watched him choke. I have to go with Julie (his wife) to the hospital because I saw him die. If I call round to yours in the taxi on the way, can you give me £20 for the taxi"
• What do you mean no? I'm not lying. You heartless cow.
• A few minutes later phones sister. "Sis, Tom next door just attacked me. I hit him in the throat, it was self defence but he couldn't breathe. Julie has taken him to hospital. The council are going to evict me. I have moved out. I'm not safe here. I feel scared. Could you lend me £5 for the bus to town to sort out shelter accommodation.
• What do you mean no? You'd leave me homeless and scared? You heartless cow.

So we go from seeing a neighbour use an asthma inhaler to ^ this, in the space of about 20 or so units. In the days that follow we will have to talk him down from paranoid delusions because in his drunk state he wont know whats true and what isnt. I might fear for my own safety knocking on Tom's door to find out what happened, but I still do it. And Tom will have no clue at all what caused my brother to think these things. I will apologise (on my brothers behalf) and just wait until he is sober again... By the time he's sober, he'll have no recollection at all.

And then normal folks wonder why carers of alcoholics don't react to histrionics and seem (to the outsider) as cold hearted towards their relatives.