If your father left you to die [Trigger warning for addiction/alcoholism added by MNHQ]

[WildeWoman]

By leaving you to die, I mean 'she's an alcoholic, what can you do'.

And you later found out that he may have been complicit in welfare fraud..........

Would you report him?

I have no idea what GBs history or involvement in alcoholism is (quoting myself)

I have been dwelling while eating dinner and feel bad because I now realise how I recognise the narrative.

In that glorious stage where my brother has stopped drinking, gone through withdrawal and dried out we have a wonderful few days of him properly sober. He can be so insightful. He's a very intelligent man, very wise.

(until he has his first drink)

He doesn't want us to enable him. He reaffirms to us that when he is drinking, not to enable him. But he needs us to care. Not just that. He needs to know that we will always care. That we'll not give up on him.

If faced with the knowledge that lots of carers of alcoholics can and do get pushed too far, then he faces the hypothetical situation where he considers that we (his Mum and Sister) could stop caring. That we could reach the point where we can take no more and could leave his life completely - that is far, far, far too much for his vulnerable mind to cope with.

So as a means to cope, be blanks this thought. Too painful to consider, he has to always believe we will always be there for him. To consider the very real possibility that his alcoholism could result in us not being there for him would be so exceptionally painful that in the vulnerable moment of just sobering up, he is not (yet) strong enough to consider the possibility.

It is a very, very real possibility for all alcoholics though, in a way an alcoholic probably wont understand.

I don't blame my brother for blanking the hypothetical situation that we could stop caring. He needs to protect his own mental health and so there is no need to consider anything hypothetical.

It doesn't make it any less likely though, we cannot care for him if we are suicidal so their must be a limit in selfless care.

I would change that to "I think addiction can be a maladaptive response to trauma.", GarlicBake. For some addicts, the victim stories only appear when all sympathy is gone everywhere and by that time their drunken brain is such mush and all their stories so outlandish (see the story about asthmatic Tom earlier on the thread) that it becomes impossible to make out what real. Even the addict themselves doesn't know any more by that stage.

I can hear what you are saying. I just disagree with you.

You have formed an opinion that the ops dad must be an arseholes because she is an addict. Even though you have been told by experts that's not always the case.

I think you can't hear anything outside your own situation. I have known addicts that I grew up with, that didn't experience trauma.

However by asserting that her dad is probably an arsehole and giving the thumbs up to her behaviour, you are giving her the green light and saying 'it's ok to display this sort of behaviour'

It's not ok.

Yep, pax ... it's more than fair to say I don't know everything Also, my experience is limited mainly to addicts in recovery and those who are functioning well & haven't needed to face their addiction. With the first group, discussions have been intense and honest. With the second I'm only observing.

Then there are addicts coming off and on the rails, and the ones we all cross paths with now and again. Y'know, each instance calls for its own response and we won't all respond the same.

Fate - your love for your brother shines through all your posts. I'm very sorry, and angry, that you're dealing with such impossibly conflicted feelings. I can only hope this reaches a peaceful conclusion for you all - one way or another

Paxillan I think I monitor my drinking to the extent that I need to. I don't spot problematic drinking in others, although my mother is quick to do so. I make sure I'm not starting on my dad's path to dependence.

Garlic - I believe the addictive personality has a strong genetic element.

I had a boyfriend who realised he was an alcoholic at the grand old age of 22 and gave up then! Amazing man. He could not have a drink without carrying on to the passing out/puking stage.

I left him because of it and he stopped drinking soon after. I am still in touch with him and he hasn't had a drink for 31 years.

But, meant to add, he had a great close family and a childhood I envied.

GarlicBake your sense of self-importance is revolting. I was willing to quietly tolerate on the basis of your recovering alcoholic experience but you are now making statements way, way above your authority.

• I have realised that those attacking my viewpoint are defending painful decisions of your own and your feelings are raw...
• Please do believe I'm not remotely wishing to attack or criticise you...
• Does it sound to you as if I'm suggesting you 'could have stopped' your addict? I'm not...

These are all deflection. They say "Don't question or doubt me" in a passive aggressive way.

I've never met an addict who didn't experience childhood abuse. You try to infer that "expert professionals" (hmm) suggest that the abuse may not be interpreted as abuse by everyone. But was still abuse. ..."but the science is still fuzzy on that side of things"

It isn't. You have just interpreted it incorrectly.

What the researchers found was that childhood trauma (abuse and/or neglect) was significantly more prevalent among alcoholics than the general population. I don't think I would need to spend lots of money on research to have come to that conclusion.

What this does not say is that most addicts have experienced childhood abuse.

you are now making statements way, way above your authority.

My authority?

I'm bloody glad I've got a psych appointment next week. I'm going to have to take apart the self-doubt (and worse) this thread has evoked.

I obviously can't answer your post or Katenka's in any satisfactory way.

Garlic - Everyones experience is important and valued.

You don't need passive aggressively to shut down others because their experiences that don't match your own. They are just as right, even when they are different to your experience.

Someone wise once said "You know when you are a proper adult when you can be right without needing to prove it".

We all believe that what we did/are doing is the right thing. Otherwise we would do something else. That doesn't mean all other experiences and viewpoints are wrong. Everyone can simultaneously be right.

Yes, I do believe I wrote "there is really no need for agreement between us. It's just differing points of view". It almost looks like you're saying the same thing, except that was the post you chose to misinterpret as attempted "authority" and to attack very personally.

Nobody wants to read any more of this; I'll be leaving the thread to get on with itself now.

I didn't seek to disturb your self-doubt. I am sorry if I have. I really, really am.

It wouldn't take a psych appointment for anyone reading to see that suggesting my brother has almost certainly experienced childhood abuse will raise my heckles. Suffice to say we experienced no trauma as children. I continue to be offended at this statement you made about childhood abuse. But I am a fairly well-balanced person, I will get over it quickly.

Your other posts before that, I have a soft spot for. I like that you have introduced me to the term "soft landing". I think we were already doing this, but I didn't know it had an actual name.

Again, I am sorry

This thread is an example of the difficulty with many threads in the relationships section. We just don't know-we only have OP's perspective and that is skewed because she is drinking. Her father may be an arsehole-he may on the other hand be a concerned parent at the end of his tether and doing what he thought best. OP is certainly of an age to stop blaming him and take responsibility for her choices.
We are all inclined to project our own experiences onto the situation.

This happens all the time on MN. I find posters who are over sure and give hard opinion on little evidence are dangerous to be honest.

Garlic-you are assuming far too much.

Peace!

Sorry, that was to you Fate

Peace to you too. Its an emotive topic.

It is a topic that awakens all sorts of demons. I am glad for all of those who share their experiences with alcoholics, I think possibly even more important for the OP are those who have been the alcoholic in this, like garlic. How much harder to open up about that. Peace indeed and well done.

I an so sad reading this .
My emotional investment in trying to help an alcoholic friend was partly to blame for the end of my marriage.
And the irony was that my exH's dad was an alcoholic.
Ex tried to tell me I was wasting my time.. And damaging our family.

He was right.

Huge respect to all those who have slain the demon

Indeed, iminshock, slaying the demon is the big step.

Unless you lived in a family you don't have the background knowledge

I wish that would be universally remembered on here!

Yes, and not just on this thread! I think this almost every time I read a thread in which several members of the poster's family are apparently toxic and in cahoots together to make a scapegoat of the OP!

I obviously can't answer your post or Katenka's in any satisfactory way.

It's not about answering in a satisfactory way.

I hoping that you can see jumping in backing up and alcoholics abuse of their family isn't a good thing. That an alcoholic will grab on I that to justify their actions and their addiction.

If it's RL and you know the dad is an arsehole, that would be one thing. But you have no idea.

I thought we were have a discussion.