If your father left you to die [Trigger warning for addiction/alcoholism added by MNHQ]

[WildeWoman]

By leaving you to die, I mean 'she's an alcoholic, what can you do'.

And you later found out that he may have been complicit in welfare fraud..........

Would you report him?

Validating that someone feels victimised when it is clear they are not is exactly the same as enabling them.

I get that was not clear in the first post by op, but coming back and making that statement after everything that has been said later by everyone including the op is questionable.

That is of course true, GarlicBake, but maybe the problem would have become apparent earlier if somebody had said that none of these behaviours are normal and that they are on their way to addiction.

Maybe that's what happened to those two-bottle-a week drinkers that were discussed earlier. They might have been the lucky ones with a loved one who stopped them at a point where that is still relatively easy and way before the homeless and almost dying on the street the OP experienced.

I had all the background knowledge regarding Zoe. Her family came to the therapy days.

Validating someone's feelings is not the same as agreeing to the person's explanation for those feelings, AF. How many times have you and I both told a poster she's entitled to her emotions? I can't imagine you saying "Your feelings are wrong".

In any case, I'd say every addict is being victimised. By their addiction.

He probably is an arsehole. He wasn't posting, anyhow, so why should I care what anyone thinks of him? It's still best for her if she undoes her attachment to him.

It's not about wether he cares or you care. You are backing up her thoughts of 'he left me to die in the street' which is probably not true.

Her own statements back that up.

Saying 'he probably is arsehole' when you have no idea, is backing her behaviour. And her own opinion that she is a victim of her father.

When in fact it's much more likely he has been her victim and cut her off

I had all the background knowledge regarding Zoe. Her family came to the therapy days.

I am sorry but you don't. You don't know the minute details. You know what they said at therapy.

But you don't know about the things they didn't say. When a relative is an addict it's all consuming for Everton involved. So much happens and drags you down you can't remember every detail. But you still feel dragged down by them

We shall have to agree to disagree with this one, GB. I think I am commenting from a much more "removed" place than you are.

Now that make me more able to comment truly objectively or it might be me talking a bunch of shit. The answer to that is certainly something we are entitled to make our own minds up about.

YY, paxillin, but who's got the crystal ball?? People work very hard to conceal sliding behaviours - from themselves, as well as everyone else. If you police another person's individual choices, you're not behaving like a rational adult. As already said hundreds of times here - only the addict can decide whether to be addicted, by how much, and what to do with that information.

Same with anything, really.

If you've asked your partner to give you a heads-up when you're opening a second pack of biscuits, it's up to them whether to take the responsibility and, if they do it, up to you to respect them. Trying to do any of that without informed consent would be dysfunctional.

WE're even allowed to talk shit to each other, AF

I think I am commenting from a much more "removed" place than you are.

I have no idea what GBs history or involvement in alcoholism is, but I don't have the luxury of that "removed" place and I find GBs posts troubling.

Does it sound to you as if I'm suggesting you 'could have stopped' your addict? I'm not. People's addictions can be interrupted, dependent on resources, but they can't be fixed without the addict's engagement.

My involvement: I was interrupted early. Rehab was the most transformative single experience of my life. When you're that close to a group of people in such an intense environment, you care a lot and learn a lot.

Just wanted to post to say that among the things I am grateful for today is newmamatobe's post

One thing I know from personal experience is that an alcoholic, living one day at a time in a healthy recovery is GRATEFUL.

Grateful to have owned the past and those harmed, and to strive to make amends to those people.

Grateful to be one of the lucky few who somehow managed to break free from the illness - for today.

Grateful to be a balanced human being and a useful part of society once again.

Unless you lived in a family you don't have the background knowledge

I wish that would be universally remembered on here!

garlic what exactly has the OP said that makes you think he is probably an arsehole. Rather than a man who has tried his best can't continue to do it?

Paxillan my father's an alcoholic and it does seem to run down his side of the family. Knowing that and knowing how like him I am, I monitor my relationship with alcohol very carefully. But I have made the choice to do this for me - I don't see it as someone else's responsibility to oversee my drinking.
After all, I'm the one who has to control my drinking, no-one can do that for me.
Thank you to the people who have posted on here. It's not easy reading, but it has helped me realised how detrimental my dad's drinking is to him and those around him.

It is important to remember that the OP's father arsehole-ness or otherwise is irrelevant.

Threats of malicious accusations and the attempt to turn others (including, it seems, randoms on the internet) against the person who won't cough up money to fund continued drinking are just another thing "wet" alcoholics do.

Gabilan you probably monitor your own drinking more than you need to. My grandmother (who also had an alcoholic father) did this to herself and others, she spots problem drinking really easily in almost strangers, but also spots it in herself when it isn't there.

Just going to post this for all on this thread dealing with an alcoholic/addict loved one. It bears repeating:

You didn't cause this

You cannot control this

You cannot cure this

Threats of malicious accusations and the attempt to turn others (including, it seems, randoms on the internet) against the person who won't cough up money to fund continued drinking are just another thing "wet" alcoholics do.

exactly. Which is why I can't understand why someone would say 'he is probably an arsehole'

When this is common technique of addicts

Yes, AcrossthePond55, I agree for the family member

"You didn't cause this
You cannot control this
You cannot cure this"

And for the addict

You did cause this
You can control this
You cannot cure this

It's a personal take. I think all addiction is a maladaptive response to trauma. I've never met an addict who didn't experience childhood abuse. I am told by expert professionals that it isn't always the case, but that some people are unusually vulnerable. So their experience may not be what anyone else would interpret as abuse, but was felt as such anyway. It can be a single instance. Part of that vulnerability might be a pre-existing tendency to addiction (ie, the brain's looking for a bad experience) but the science is still fuzzy on that side of things.

I have realised that those attacking my viewpoint are defending painful decisions of your own and your feelings are raw. I understand why you can't 'hear' what I'm trying to say but there is really no need for agreement between us. It's just differing points of view.

Please do believe I'm not remotely wishing to attack or criticise you.