Am trying to make sense of something I don't understand about me.

[Lanark2]

Hello,
I am trying to understand something about me that frankly I can't seem to get right, or get help from family or friends over, and I really would be very grateful for input from people here.

The problem is, that I don't feel appreciated, but its worse than that, it that I don't feel that anybody knows or cares who I am. Its not a weird emotional state, its just kind of true.

By that I mean that I can't remember the last time I had a conversation about things I am passionate about, out one of those end of week debriefs that reset your view of humanity, but on top of this, my e employer thinks I don't have skill in advance of my role, yet I have run projects that are bigger in scope than the department. I have had brilliant relationships, that seemed to just end, either when I was discussed too much by my partner and her friends, or that just fizzled out, and now I am often viewed as 'not boyfriend material' yet I always feel that I am in love with commitment, shared vision, would desperately love a family, and am without exception supportive of my partner, perhaps more than I am supportive of myself.
In my group of friends, I used to be viewed as the successful one, yet in the last six years have been bullied out of three jobs, sometimes aggressively, sometimes passively, and I can't put my finger on why so many things for me go the opposite to the way they go for others.

The relationship thing is the most puzzling, as my last relationship ended up with my partner being in a constant power struggle with me without my playing back, which just deflated everything.

any help or suggestions welcome.

Well the childhood thing is sort of interesting in that at school I was arty and alternative and a good verbal debater, so dismissable by the dull and geeky, who pushed me out of 'sensible' projects that I had actually initiated eg a tuck shop business.endorsed by teachers, young enterprise etc, but horror of horrors for them, I was also good at science, so I inadvertently stepped on their territory there too. I have always acted team-y and so am always blindsided by people acting against each other in the same environment.. I suppose.. Some of the friends thing is that when everyone were friends equally so was I, but as some couples started acting 'individually' ie in competition with other couples I guess I didn't know how to play that game as well, but it still doesn't explain fully why other people who are wankers and ineffective are doing better than me from EVERY angle..

And by every angle I mean every angle that the 'adult' world uses as a scorecard.. Kids..family..money in the bank..house..car..I feel like my genes are being written out of history, even though they are pretty good!..:)

When you helped "correct" these previous issues, was it actually your job to help correct them? Did you go to your supervisor and quietly say "by the way, I noticed these werent right on the previous email, you might want to review these" or did you send a loud "HA, you got this wrong you fool, I should have your job!" company-wide email?

When you say "can work at a higher level than an average person", tbh it sounds like you might be coming across as a bit of a "prince in rags", if you give off the vibe that your current job is beneath you and so are your co-workers then that will be picked up on.

It could be a combination of things:

1. You have a personality type that is resilient and self sufficient, so people often don't help you or think you can manage on the one hand and you don't like help on the other. This can be hard for others - they might think you don't need help or you aren't open and sharing in a relationship. Like you give nothing away about yourself so why should they. I suggest fake it till you make it with this eg. tell them a bit about how you are feeling in return to them telling you about themselves. After time you'll be more comfortable sharing. People like it. Some don't, so you don't always have to do this.

1. Your friends have naturally drifted into their own worlds and you have been left wondering where you fit in. Because you are resilient you don't tend to let people know you are lonely so the drifting sort of just happened.

1. You are working in an industry that you aren't suited to - maybe you could think of a career change. Or you need to speak to the manager above the manager about career progression and make it happen.

1. You might well rub some people up the wrong way because you don't fear calling them out on their mistakes. This has led to your feeling of isolation and you've had to put up with bullying. Again, you might well be in the wrong career - you might want to find one which suits your personality type. It must be frustrating knowing you can do better - you need to find a way of progressing proactively rather than focussing on what others are not doing right. Or do both. I don't thnk you're wrong calling people out on their mistakes, just don't focus on that over your own career development (courses you do in your own time, appraisals and discussion of how youcan develop and what they want you to do etc)

Of course, all this is based on your posts and my interpretation of them and could be totally off the mark. I would suggest a bit of counselling too regarding your childhood (you mention your family put you down or have low expectations of you).

And I would guess that once you look at your career you could start moving in a world more suited to you and have friendships with people on your level, male and female.

Please try and get some money together perhaps by working some more hours to get some counselling. You just wrote this 'it still doesn't explain fully why other people who are wankers and ineffective are doing better than me from EVERY angle..' and with everything else you have written I feel you could benefit from unpicking some of these hard held views you have and trying to let some of that stuff loosen up a bit. I don't have a scorecard for anyone else (perhaps just for myself but that is my own issue) and I think we need to try and live and let live, I genuinely believe that you are mistaken if you think everyone is scoring you on your success or lack of in life. Your genes are not determining your adult life, YOU are.

No I don't have a scorecard either usually, which is why when I look up and think 'well I must have achieved something by niw' I see whole estates of people in relationships and jobs with promotions, and me in a shithole with none of these things

That must be very hard to live with. I hope you can find a way to help yourself.

Maybe "scorecard" gives the wrong image, but certainly if you are 43 and have had no long-term relationships and thus no kids, no money in the bank, no house, no car and a job you hate I think people will judge you. If I dated you, for example, and found this all out, then yes, I'd see you as a risk: there might turn out to be very good reasons why you were in that situation. You would have to have a pretty attractive, reassuring personality to get me to take that risk. The thing is, none of us can read minds. We can't somehow see through to the real you and know that you are actually amazing: we can only base our guesses about what you are like on what you've done.

It does sound to me, too, like you could perhaps be in the wrong industry. Is it something arty/media-based? That can be a harsh place for people our age, when there are millions of fresh-faced arty types with new ideas coming out of college every year.

It would be interesting to hear any ideas you have for winching yourself up out of the shithole. Change of career? Move to a new town? Taking up a new hobby?

Yes, I agree. What are you doing to improve your situation?

This is really one of those situation where I think it would be very revealing to soeak to the people who know you in very different contexts.

Love yourself. You are not a bad person. But somewhere down the line you picked up that belief.
'A loving person lives in a loving world. A hostile person lives in a hostile world. Everyone you meet is your mirror.'- Ken Keyes.
'Your task is not to seek for Love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.'- Rumi, thirteenth century Sufi poet
'If you aren’t good at loving yourself, you will have a difficult time loving anyone, since you’ll resent the time and energy you give another person that you aren’t even giving to yourself'.- Barbara De Angelis

It's clear you are unhappy with your present situation but unless you stop focusing so obsessively on how unfair it is that people you don't like are doing better than you in terms of these arbitrary 'scorecard' things you seem to prize and how you are so helpless and misunderstood then it's not likely to change.

A lot of navel gazing going on tbh. The only point in fixating on problems is to enable you to fix things and move forward. Just fixating on problems gets you nowhere and is often a way to avoid making changes IMO.

If you don't have friends you need to make some, you need to lower your expectations re your friends 'getting the hidden me', not many people will be up for that intense a connection. Don't take money off friends unless it's a small short term loan you pay straight back.

If you are not progressing in your career then you need to work out why; you may not suit this career path as has been suggested. It is highly unlikely that it is just that 'everyone has it in for me'.

You shouldn't be dating or looking to date until you feel better about yourself and until you are over past relationships.

There's lots you could be doing instead of throwing a pity party about it being everyone's fault except yours that you don't like your life.

Quite honestly that is a really offputting attribute - much more offputting than not having 'ticked boxes' of career, family, house etc.

Some of your posts are reminiscent of some OLD guys I've met who are angry when a woman doesn't like them because they are 'doing everything right'.

Truth is unless you are happy and secure in yourself and you realise that there are no scorecards or tick boxes or 'keys' to working out how to have relationships, that they are about being honest, secure, vulnerable and intimate to varying degrees then you'll struggle with any kind of socialising at work or in your personal life.

I think you are still talking to those OLD guys in your last paragraph, not me, though I take the point, the fact is that I can't be strong enough to be vulnerable if you see what I mean, because I can't even get to the end of the month moneywise, so it really is like being a child in many ways.. I am doing three jobs to be like this, but in my last long term role I helped make a £60m a year difference to department income, but no one around me treats me as anything but the 'lucky to have a job' mantra, which is really depressing. All of this means that I don't want to start a relationship because a. I don't want it to be on 'rescuer' footing..its too damaging b. I don't want to start a relationship where we aren't building things up together and c. If I can't get anyone to see who I really am in a positive way, how am I going to show that to a new partner who is inevitably going to do the thing that ravenmum said. I am conscious of the double-bind men find themselves in..not supposed to be the patronising provider or chattel-owner, but on the other hand woe betide a man without a good job, car and house...

I feel like I need love, to become who I can be, but that I can't get love until I am who I can be...its odd

They are not people I have dated, I'm not talking to them, they are common on POF etal, getting all wound up.

The similarity is what you pointed out - that you think you need love to become who you can be.

That is a dangerous path. You are correct that you don't want to get into a rescuer dynamic but you have fixated on being rescued. That's your issue really.

All people need supportive relationships; romantic, professional and friendly, to really flourish but you absolutely cannot just decide you are not going to do anything for yourself at all because other people don't treat you how you would like and they never will.

Support is not about rescuing. Rescuing is about power.

This whole thing is not about other people, you are giving the whole world responsibility for things in your life you are not happy with and therefore creating your own helplessness IMO.

On paper many of us are 'not attractive'. I'm a young single mother of four - loads of people judge that horrendously. I've had a shit time, a shit upbringing, people can be mean. It doesn't hold me back in any way that isn't entirely related to the practicalities because if I want things to be better I have to make them better - no-one else will do it for me.

OK, so what can you do to kick-start a change? What industry do you think would be a better fit for your skills? What courses can you do to help you make inroads? What are your interests? Walking groups? Art classes? Can you join up? Just for yourself, not to immediately start a friendship or relationship with a fellow attendee.

I was once told that it's hard to feel loved unless you love yourself (as you'll always doubt it and wonder why would someone love me? And not believe it). So in this chicken/egg scenario about love and being who you can be, you need to sort yourself out first, which maybe therapy can help with.

And those tick boxes are usually much much more important to men than women.

When women get put off it's by considering what has caused a man to have never had a LTR, never achieved any success in a long career, never been able to make ends meet because it indicates they may have emotional problems which they are not taking responsibility for and which they may be looking for a woman to take responsibility for...

I've certainly been in LTR with all kinds of men from property owning high earners to most recent BF who has just moved out of his parents' home. People generally want to know they are not entering a risky relationship, it's not about money and cars.

I take your point, but its odd in that I have always seen relationships as made safe by each other, so previous relationships and situations to me are less relevant than where you are going together.. In fact this is helpful as in a lot of ways I feel like I am in 'park' keeping myself open to careers that could be compatible with a new partner who makes me feel comfortable with being me. Trouble is, that the expectation on an older man is not to be a great guy that shares our vision and helps build it, but someone who has a chunk of asafe vision that a partner can plug into.. I am still seeking that shared dream-making..

Also I find it weird, knowing what I do about structural issues that a man without a long career and an LTR or two is seen as risky. Worse for me is a serial LTR er for whom none of them were proper life commitments, and also if I met a single woman who had not been in an LTR and i liked her I would think 'cool now to start' not ' shit, mental' .. Are you saying that's naive?

If so, I think perhaps I need to start seeking women in relationships? .. I am not sure that's a good route. I think more I need someone who is ready for an LTR, not one who has serialfake ltrs

Thinking about shared dream making when you are single is a hiding to nothing. how can you plan a future around a person you haven't met yet?

Imagine the pressure on a new relationship where you have already planned a joint future before you had even met!

IMO you need to plan your life around yourself and your dreams.

Then you tend to meet people who either will or won't fit into that happily/share compatible dreams.

If you are slightly unconventional you need to accept that you may meet a lot of unsuitable people and people who won't 'fit' with you but are lovely but usually you do meet enough of a selection to actually have happy relationships.

One thing is for sure though, if you are unhappy and insecure you will either meet people who use you, you'll stay with unsuitable people too long or you'll end up alone.

You need to prioritise yourself, your dreams and your happiness. Be comfortable with being alone and being yourself and other people will certainly find you more stimulating and attractive.

You are still looking for a solution outwith yourself. You want the support of a relationship so you can then go forth and be something and be you.

What we are saying is, you need to do that yourself. For yourself. Then the rest is more likely to follow.

You sound almost resentful of women who you perceive to only want to plug into your success. I don't think many do at all. And surely, the sort of women who do want to do this aren't the sort of women you'd want anyway? So rather than be angry about it, just be pleased that you know early on you aren't compatible before you've wasted too much time.

And no it's not naive.

I generally am willing to get to know anyone and not judge them on their 'on paper' stuff.

Never having done any of the things I listed before would peak my attention. I'd date and get a perspective on why that was.

People on OLD generally will just count you completely out on paper though. That way of dating seems to be about getting through a high volume and people don't want to bother with anything that indicates risk.

Exactly, it's not about the money (well, to me anyway!). If you have multiple failed relationships and jobs, it might be because you have serious personality flaws or a mental health issue. If you are unable to support yourself it may mean you are incapable of doing other basic things in life, again because of some serious problem.

If it turned out that you had a good reason for being poor - a disability, mass redundancies, caring for a relative - that would ease my mind.

If you said it was because everyone was against you I would not be reassured.

And it also depends on the women.

A woman of your age is likely to have children already and most women are left holding the kids when relationships break down. If a woman with kids is looking for long term commitment it will be important to them that you will be able to be an equal financial partner and it's perfectly reasonable for them to just find you not a realistic proposition.

A woman in the same position who is not looking for long term commitment; living together/marriage may be happy to commit to a LTR with you if they like you.

If you are looking for marriage/living together then you will need to recognise that your financial position is relevant (but doesn't count you out and doesn't mean you are unattractive to all women) and look to date women who are in an equal footing financially.