Crap DIL (long and possibly triggering)

[CrapDIL]

Please, please don't flame me - I feel very delicate about this

Background - PILs (moved 100 miles away a few years ago, still have a house locally which BIL "bought part of"/"invested in" (don't know, and don't care) and they visit every month or so)
BIL is over 40, lives alone in what (is? Was?) the family home, never had ANY sort of relationship AT ALL. 4 years older than DH.
ILs are extremely insular and DH has essentially been outcast anything outside of the immediate family (ie the 3 of them) doesn't exist).

Been with DH for 16 years, married for 7.

PILs have behaved questionably towards me to say the least over the years. FIL told me right at the start that he wished one of his boys would go out with one of my closest friends (ie not me). Wanted details of our financial situation (on a fairly regular basis, including inheritance that I was left by my grandparents). Talked down to DH at every opportunity. Made to sit in another room by myself when mil's family were visiting so that they could have a family meal. When my grandad died and I was distraught, comments included "why are you so upset? He was just your grandad" The list is endless and these are only off the top of my head.

I used to make a huge effort with them. Cooked a weeks worth of meals and even washed/bagged veg ready to cook when mil's dad died suddenly. Picked up packages, cleaned, offered and given lifts, entertained their relatives when they decided to go away when they visited from abroad.

Ds was very poorly when he arrived. 3 days in hospital, we desperately needed support (we thought Ds had died ), Ds in SCBU and vomited every single feed straight back up. PILs didn't bother to visit as the visiting times weren't convenient (first grandchild and PILs are retired, absolutely no other commitments).

FIL had an "event" before Christmas and was very unwell but is now recovering. I've spent a long time looking into how to support them both, looking at specialist websites etc. One of these sites has a talk forum. FIL told me that he had started posting (you can see where this is going, can't you?)

So, I happen to see a post today that blithely mentions that he would like to "swap DILs" for another poster that has been going onto this forum for support for her FIL. A throwaway comment, a passing joke. But it has hurt me very, very much. Out of DH, BIL and I, the two boys have done precisely fuck all, whereas I'm the one who has been trying to be supportive (including sending stuff via post) and to try to help.

I don't really know what I'm hoping to achieve by posting here, but I'm gutted. I've always known they don't like me but to see it in black and white feels like I've been punched in the stomach.

I'm over reacting, aren't I? (Feel free to offer a kick up the arse)

Your DH allowed you to sit in another room alone? Not very supportive
You need to get your husband to support you and stand by you.

Do you mean your dh assaulted you?

You don't have to accept jack-shit.

Are you still at the pub? Can you take a cool-down minute hour and then go home and try again. Things get said in anger and if you and DH were at it hammer and tongs maybe he will feel differently if he has a chance to cool down, too.

If he seriously believes it's 'all your fault' and is siding with his parents against you, I'm afraid you'll have a decision to make. All I know is that I wouldn't want to live in a marriage where I came below my iLs in my husband's loyalty. Especially if it meant indentured servitude to their wants and 'needs'.

I will say again that it's probably better that you not read FiL's posts since you already know how he feels about you, but I can understand why you do.

I agree with IAmPissedOffWithAHeadmaster comment early on in this thread. You just need to stop supporting them.

I think the comment on a the thread is really not relevant because you knew already they did not care for you. WHY did he tell you he was posting there and then post something horrible! Did he want you to see?

I think you can choose, tell him you saw comment and are disgusted, don't tell him.

Tell MIL and FIL that you are still upset they made you sit in another room when they had a family visit (this would royally piss me off!) ... or don't tell them.

Explain to your husband what you read, how you feel and/or how you felt being made to sit in another room! Then calmly say you will not be having any more to do with his parnts until you choose to. If they wish to include you in something you wish to do, then by all means do it. But make it clear to CH any rude comments and you will leave and take the car/expect him to come with you/get a taxi.

Really there are so many choices here that you can choose to do, and whatever you choose for you is right for you.

Oh dear sorry I need to read back a bit I missed some stuff!

Only return the same favours they do for you- obligatory birthday card/whatever is the norm for your family, do the same they do back
But as others say, i would from here on in,distance yourself, oher than polite cards/birthday greetings

He sounds as if he has already distanced himself on some level, & looking to joke in a mean way ? But i am unsure u can be certain, how did an u know it is him on the forums? It is funny how all feel annonymous on these threads, yet it is very public, and for all to work out I guess. it is sad if he has indeed been caught out being rude and mean about his own family

CrayDIL re "DH and I have come to blows tonight. It's over. Apparently it's all my fault as I've made it clear I hate them [sad-]"

Does this mean he hit you/you hit him, or just you got angry with each other?

If you did physically fight you need to seek some urgent help for this. If you just mean fell out then I think you need to look at all this in a very calm light!

Re "I've tried. I've tried so, so hard to include them." You know the answer, just stop, stop trying, it is beyond possible.

"Apparently I'm the one at fault as I have to accept what they are like - ie bend over and take it." Your husband is ill, please don't waste your or his breath/energy discussing this. put it on the back burner while he gets better.

Re "I walked out - I went to the pub and left H with DS as I couldn't bear to even look at him." The pubs long shut so are you home now? Rememer alcohl may make you feel better but it won't sort the situation and if you need to be in charge a car or a baby or both, just be very careful.

Re "I need to protect my son. But according to DH I need to accept how they are and just get on with it. " Will you can't protect your son and accept mental abuse form your in-laws so you choose? (There is no choice, it has to be the former)

Re "Please help me. I think it's over. I don't know what to do." do you mean your marriage? Just be very calm with your dh, he is in hospital. the first course of action is for him to get better.

You STOP reading your father in law's antics, he clearly wants you to read them and gets some sick pleasure from it, this is all very unhealthy and by reading you are playing into his hands! Would you call him up and say verbally abuse me for 20 minutes, please? NO! So why go on line and read what he has read.... it is meaningless.

I suggest (and others will know better what to do but for the record I would....)

CONCENTRATE on your son and caring for him
BE THERE for your husband and visit him but say you will not discuss this until he is well
CONCENTRATE ON yourself and BE THERE for yourself, build up your own self esteem:
Read about self esteem issues and building up self esteem, available via internet, library. bookshop, us on mumsnet!
Pamper yourself and love yourself, bubble baths and favourite TV progs, whatever works for you, eat healthy yummy food and love yourself.

AND do not do anything for inlaws! You need to priorities your life, your son and your marriage, and you need to stop being a martyr to a family who do not care for you.

If you have read and understood all this you know you cannot go back to reading those posts and soaking in that poison.

You're so lovely, OP and as a PP said, the way your PIL treat you is not your fault, they are indeed toxic, spineless people who don't deserve a DIL like you!

I hope you manage to work things out with your DH, I so wish he could see what he has and see his parents for what they really are, awful awful people.

Everything that italiangreyhound said!

Thanks WhingyNinja! (great name).

Family loyalty does not equate to be being belittled!

No one has the right to make you feel bad.

Must go to bed now, but please can i add, if your in-laws accuse you of being selfish etc, please do not engage with them. You will waste further energy trying to convince them that you are nice and not selfish etc!

When the house has burnt down you don't try to paint the walls! The in-laws have burnt their own house down, (the house being their relationship with you!). You cannot do anything.

Look up gas lighting.... it's when people lie to you and make you think you are mad. If you come on here with name CrapDIL and say they don't like you and you know know they don't but you have done everything for them and then say you read FIL doesn't like you and you are surprised then they have so far succeeded in gas lighting you to some extent! They have made you feel there is just enough hope that if you do just enough they might like you? are you fooled by this? Please OP, do not be. We are 6 pages of strangers on the Internet and we think you have gone above and beyond the call of duty.

"I used to bite my tongue and hold my breath
Scared to rock the boat and make a mess
So I sit quietly, agree politely
I guess that I forgot I had a choice
I let you push me past the breaking point
I stood for nothing, so I fell for everything"

And I don't even like Katie Perry that much!

Hope you're doing okay, OP

Why thank you, Italiangreyhound

Oh no, DIL, so sorry that your H has done this to you. But I think you have to make a stand or, as you say, become their whipping boy for the rest of their lives.

I know which I'd rather do, and your H has drawn the line in the sand - so take him at his word. YOU know you are worth more than this, HE wants to let them win.

You don't want your DS (whose name you put in your last post, btw) to grow up seeing his mother treated with such disrespect, you've already said you didn't want that for him - so walk away and tell your H that you'll talk to him when he decides that you're worth more than a doormat.

I'm really very sorry that this has escalated like this :(

CrapSIL you mentioned your son's name and it was repeated by another poster. I have reported both posts as it might be better if the name was removed for your anonymity.

None of this is your fault. Do you have somewhere safe to be? I hope your description of having come to blows means an argument not violence.

I hope you can find a time of quiet with your DH to talk properly. If he can't see that you are being hurt by FIL here then you do have a big choice to make.

No, it looks like the DH is out of hospital, otherwise how could the OP have left their son with him?

He might still be feeling under par, but that's no excuse to become the mouthpiece of his parents and decide that it's all the OP's fault now.

The ILs appear to have been after breaking up this relationship from the off - and now they're going to manage it, BUT not because of their behaviour, because their son has decided that he'd rather lose his wife and mother of his child than stand up to his parents.
Not acceptable.

I think you should change your username to "Crap FIL".

Just because he's ill doesn't give him the right to treat others like rubbish. Many ill people aren't fortunate enough to have caring folk, such as yourself, around them.

You can't control any of this, just your reaction to it - if your husband wants to take his parents 'side', after everything that's happened, then there's nothing you can do

I'd separate for a while, preferably let him leave but if not, do you have somewhere you can go? Give you both some space to see if it's salvageable?

Just to reassure everyone, no it wasn't physical at all - he stormed off to the lounge and left me and Ds in the kitchen (that's the worst our arguments come to)

I'm on the sofa and DH will be up in a minute - not disappearing but I'll be back a bit later to read your replies properly

Thank you everyone - you would not believe how grateful I am for the support

Apparently I'm the one at fault as I have to accept what they are like - ie bend over and take it

You'll know best whether this is the right time to broach the subject, but at some point you'll have to find out once and for all whether he really means this, or if he's spinelessly taking the "placate whoever shouts loudest" way out. No doubt you'll be told "if only you'd just ...", but that's not the point now; these people are utterly toxic and either he accepts it and acts accordingly it or he doesn't

It's hard to see how you can carry on in a marriage where you're always put last - believe me I tried for too many years myself - so if he's really not prepared to step up you may have a hard decision to make. Just about the only good news, however, is that you can be certain of getting fantastic support on here

Mercifully I've also got fab parents - who I may well end up going to stay with.

Just to clarify some points - DH was discharged a couple of weeks ago and was signed off until yesterday. Fil posted on the first day he was in hospital, I don't know if he knew how bad his son was but he knew he was very unwell. He stated that he was "horrified" that his children hadn't rallied round and that he had to adjust to a new normal without his offspring and grandchildren (he only has 1)

DH and I have never been and are exceptionally unlikely ever to be violent. Just not like that.

Thank you for flagging up ds's name - I'll talk to HQ and see if they can amend.

Well, here's the update.

DH called at he beginning of his lunch break. He wants me to call fil. He is "sick of being piggy in the middle". He said that he has always supported me, which I have told him is utter bullshit. He just expects me to put up with it.

He has pulled the "what if they drop down dead tomorrow" card, as well as the "my mum and dad must be on the verge of a nervous breakdown" card. I've said to the first that that could apply to any of us and it doesn't mean that we have to put up with shit because of what "could" happen. I've said to the second that I don't care, they've brought it on themselves.

I have told him that Ds and I will not be visiting ILs in Essex until here is an apology. DH says that this will never be forthcoming and so, essentially, I'm going to stop them having any form of relationship with their grandson. I've told DH that I won't be moved on this. He put the phone down.

So, what now? He can't understand that I need to protect Ds - his only answer is "do you honestly think they'd ever hurt him?" Of course not, but physical harm isn't what he needs,protecting from.

I've downloaded toxic in laws.

Spoken to my mum at length and they are more than happy for Ds and I to go and stay for a while. I think I'm going to tell DH that either he goes to stay with BIL for a while or Ds and I will go to my parents; give him the choice. I don't know if I want to stay married to him.

I'm being accused of stopping Ds from having a relationship win his grandparents. How can I phrase it to make DH understand hat I don't want him around the influence of toxic people?

IMO there's nothing you can say. DH is so under FOG that he won't believe you. Moses could bring down tablets from Mt Sinai listing all the ways your son could be emotionally harmed and DH still would not believe. He probably doesn't believe in emotional damage to begin with, because if he did he'd have to admit that his parents are toxic.

I expect his idea of 'supporting you' is that he's 'let you' vent. That's crap.

Tell him that by refusing to have anything to do with his parents you are removing him from 'piggy in the middle'; if you don't see them, you'll have nothing to 'complain' to him about. And they will have no reason to complain about you as you won't be around to 'antagonize' them. You will go about your business blissfully unaware of their 'goings on' and they can live a 'stress free' life without you.

Would DH consider going to couple's counseling? My DH and I went through a very bad patch (not iL related) and he agreed to counseling because he thought that I'd be 'set straight' by the counselor. He was a bit surprised to find out that (gasp!) he needed an attitude adjustment much more than I did! Both of us had work to do and we got back on track with the help of a truly wonderful counselor.

That's going to be hard, because first he needs to accept that they are toxic. Until he accepts that, he's not even going to begin to understand what sort of damage they could inflict on your DS :(

You've got "toxic inlaws" - there are other books in that series, I'm pretty sure - how about linking him up to toxic parents? If he can read and understand what has happened to him, then maybe it'll open his eyes up - but he's not likely, at the moment, to read any of it or accept any of it either. I think he may come around to it at some point, but probably not in the middle of this situation.

I think you are right to take some time away, either by him going (he's unlikely to) or by you staying with your parents. It needs to happen for him to realise that you will not be moved on this. Well done for staying strong and good luck

As a small aside, I was also accused of "breaking up" MIL's family because I refused to countenance the idea of BIL at our family Christmas lunch. This was down to the fact that he is an aggressive, violent drunk who had, while we were staying at MIL's, picked a massive fight with DH that ended up with them both punching each other and furniture being broken all around us. DS1 was 22mo at the time. The police were called and the result was a restraining order against BIL, which MIL tried to stop - luckily the Police said that it had to happen because of DS1, and if either MIL or DH tried to prevent it they'd be done for obstruction.

But it was somehow MY fault that I didn't want this drunken abusive wanker at my house for Christmas lunch. Yeah, ok then.

So your DH will see this as YOUR fault because you're rocking his picture of his "happy family" - he's going to need a major attitude adjustment to lay the blame where it properly belongs, at his parents' (and to some extent, his own) feet.