Crap DIL (long and possibly triggering)

[CrapDIL]

Please, please don't flame me - I feel very delicate about this

Background - PILs (moved 100 miles away a few years ago, still have a house locally which BIL "bought part of"/"invested in" (don't know, and don't care) and they visit every month or so)
BIL is over 40, lives alone in what (is? Was?) the family home, never had ANY sort of relationship AT ALL. 4 years older than DH.
ILs are extremely insular and DH has essentially been outcast anything outside of the immediate family (ie the 3 of them) doesn't exist).

Been with DH for 16 years, married for 7.

PILs have behaved questionably towards me to say the least over the years. FIL told me right at the start that he wished one of his boys would go out with one of my closest friends (ie not me). Wanted details of our financial situation (on a fairly regular basis, including inheritance that I was left by my grandparents). Talked down to DH at every opportunity. Made to sit in another room by myself when mil's family were visiting so that they could have a family meal. When my grandad died and I was distraught, comments included "why are you so upset? He was just your grandad" The list is endless and these are only off the top of my head.

I used to make a huge effort with them. Cooked a weeks worth of meals and even washed/bagged veg ready to cook when mil's dad died suddenly. Picked up packages, cleaned, offered and given lifts, entertained their relatives when they decided to go away when they visited from abroad.

Ds was very poorly when he arrived. 3 days in hospital, we desperately needed support (we thought Ds had died ), Ds in SCBU and vomited every single feed straight back up. PILs didn't bother to visit as the visiting times weren't convenient (first grandchild and PILs are retired, absolutely no other commitments).

FIL had an "event" before Christmas and was very unwell but is now recovering. I've spent a long time looking into how to support them both, looking at specialist websites etc. One of these sites has a talk forum. FIL told me that he had started posting (you can see where this is going, can't you?)

So, I happen to see a post today that blithely mentions that he would like to "swap DILs" for another poster that has been going onto this forum for support for her FIL. A throwaway comment, a passing joke. But it has hurt me very, very much. Out of DH, BIL and I, the two boys have done precisely fuck all, whereas I'm the one who has been trying to be supportive (including sending stuff via post) and to try to help.

I don't really know what I'm hoping to achieve by posting here, but I'm gutted. I've always known they don't like me but to see it in black and white feels like I've been punched in the stomach.

I'm over reacting, aren't I? (Feel free to offer a kick up the arse)

You can show your DC how a person should respond to someone belittling, undermining and taking advantage of them. How your PIL respond to a perfectly reasonable, calm statement of fact, "That's rude / unkind / hurtful / untrue. Please stop", is entirely up to them. The opinions your DC form of their GPs will be as a direct result of PIL's behaviour, not yours. You can't make someone a nice, reasonable person so stop trying at your own expense. Step back.

Unless you have DOORMAT tattooed on your forehead then just stop! They don't deserve you and to be honest if my DH sat in the dining room with 'family' and excluded me because they needed to have a family discussion then I would be having a 'discussion' with him!!

You don't have any control over whether your PIL like you. And if they don't, I wouldn't give them another minute of your time. I think your FIL probably realises the uncomfortable situation he's putting you in. I really sympathise, as my ex partner's father hated me, for no reason that I could ever think of, and used to slag me off pretty vilely in front of mutual friends and got shitty with them when they stuck up for me. I'd done nothing wrong, and ex DP was actually abusing me. He would be worse after he'd spoken to his father. I don't know if it was ex DP stirring but I think it was more likely that the apple didn't fall far from the tree. Different situation, not saying your DH is any way at fault, but tell him no more, you don't have to put up with someone treating you like that.

And you're not a crap DIL, you sound quite the opposite!

Right. New plan, new approach.

PILs are the only thing DH and I ever, ever argue about. He's deep in FOG and, sadly that isn't going to lift any time soon. However, he's all for confronting him immediately, I'm not. I want this to be in our Arsenal just in case we ever need to call upon it. FIL needs a safe place to post and, if it was deliberate on his part, I'm not going to rise to the bait. I suspect that if it was deliberate then there will be more to come; if there is, we either add that to what we have, or we light the fuse. Only time will tell, but it isn't the time for a big fallout. At the end of the day, FIL isn't well and I think any confrontation will be counter productive. For now, at least.

So, gone are the days of invites and running around for them and trying to win them over. They are never, ever going to change and it's time to stop bashing my head against that brick wall. DH believes I should stop bothering and leave them to it, so I've got his backing, your advice, and some pretty strong sentiments amongst my family that I should just give up. So that's what I'm going to do.

I think my reaction of "am I over reacting to this" is indicative of my/our conditioning. Yes, my dsis and I were brought up not to rock the boat and put up with a lot. It's only relatively recently that any of us have started to stand up for ourselves (eg with toxic aunt). For me to think that DH would think I was over reacting makes me realise how conditioned I feel he is, and I confess that I was shocked by his quiet anger tonight. He still accepts the unacceptable (eg when he was made redundant, it didn't matter because his brother "could" be made redundant too ) but I think even he can see that they have crossed a line now. I think that's the bit that I feel thankful for - that he can see that FIL was out of order and it's not just me "kicking up a fuss".

So : let the battle to not give a shit commence!

You are not a crap dil. You do unfortunately have crap inlaws who have no respect for you. Stop all help immediately it's not something they're grateful for. You have a new Dc so you can use that as an excuse for stepping back personally I'd be making it perfectly clear i was backing off because they are ungrateful cunts but you are far too nice to do that
It's a pity you can't link us to the website your fil has bad mouthed you on. Id love to give him a piece of my mind.

I'm having to steer DSis from doing that too, Lynn!

That must be difficult as I want to give him both barrels and I don't love you like your dsis does. Im glad you and your DH are dealing with this how you want, you are being very grown up and measured in your response which shows how thoroughly decent you both are,

Lynn - that's really kind of you.

I get moments where I don't want to be grown up and decent - I want to throw all my shit out of the pram and instigate WW3

Thank goodness. I'm glad you have your DH's backing, you both have to stand firm on this.

If he's doing this for "effect" I would not give him the satisfaction of letting him think you've seen the forum. If he asks if you've been on it, I would say no, I haven't had time.

But bottom line is, don;t engage with them at all. Why be so desperate for them to like you? They're not your relatives, you don't need them, they just cause you angst. I would honestly step back and have nothing to do with them at all. Be strong together without them. You sound lovey. They won't deserve having you in their lives.

DIL

re this part of your comment:-

"He's deep in FOG and, sadly that isn't going to lift any time soon. However, he's all for confronting him immediately, I'm not. I want this to be in our Arsenal just in case we ever need to call upon it. FIL needs a safe place to post and, if it was deliberate on his part, I'm not going to rise to the bait. I suspect that if it was deliberate then there will be more to come; if there is, we either add that to what we have, or we light the fuse. Only time will tell, but it isn't the time for a big fallout. At the end of the day, FIL isn't well and I think any confrontation will be counter productive. For now, at least".

If DH is deep in FOG he is in no way strong enough to confront his dad currently. Any such confrontation with his father will likely go very badly for him because his father still has the overall power and control here. Will your DH be at all willing to see a therapist re his own father and family of origin?.

What both of you need to do is to raise your own far too low boundaries with his family and your own. I note that you were raised to put up with a lot and not rock the boat and that familial conditioning within you was a part of why you behaved with your ILs as you have done to date. You would not have tolerated this from a friend, family are really no different.

FIL posted on that forum deliberately and there will be likely more to come from him as well. Some disordered of thinking people as well do use illness to bring what they see as errant offspring back into line, its one of their many weapons of choice.

Glad you're going to take a step back.

This sounds so much like my DM and her ILs. GM never cared for her. In fact she never really cared for anyone but herself, I doubt even my GF, DF or us GC. She was a horrid piece of work, and when GF died most of the family just abandoned her. In her time of need there was no one there. Except my DM, who just couldn't do that to someone. Cue 7 years of hell and being treated like a skivvy. When GM died, DFs family used the funeral to complain about how DM just had to get involved. We're left shame faced when we called them up and asked just what they'd done for her. But hasn't stopped them slagging DM off at any opportunity.

Two things have since happened. All the stress my DM put on herself helping out her MIL (and in essence all her ILs) meant she got exceptionally ill not long after GM died. It was a nasty rollercoaster but my DM is now quite disabled. None of the ILs bothered even sending her a card when she nearly died.

Then an elderly aunt got ill. One of the most vociferous of the lot of ILs expected DM to start helping with her. No can do, DM had to say, I'm too ill and physically incapable of it. Cue accusations of her being exceptionally selfish.

DM rues everything she did. She now know she could never win that situation, except to say she didn't let an old lady die slowly alone. She now doesn't have the relationship she desperately wanted with her GCs thanks to her disabilities. She's still getting crap if she helps and crap if she doesn't with her ILs. We all wish she'd left DF to not deal with them.

What a sad story, strictly. Your mum sounds like a lovely, strong and compassionate woman.

Shame you can't post on that same forum about what appallingly behaved PIL you have, being rebuffed even when you try to help your FIL.

Good luck in keeping away from them from now on, OP. My own father dissociated himself from his father long before I was born and we didn't suffer from not having that particular grandparent in our lives. Both her grandfathers died before my own daughter was born, and she misses them because we talk about them with love and know they would have loved her. But someone as ghastly as your FIL sounds is not worth having in your son's life, honestly. More pain than gain.

It sounds like you and dh would do brilliantly if you fought each other's battles with the ILs. You can be indignant when they treat him like shit and vice versa!

DIL I have been in a very similar situation to you. I've always known that my IL's didn't like me, lots of things had happened in the past. However it was like an unspoken thing that I could cope with.
Last Easter DH's cousin came to stay with us. Whilst he was here MIL told him that they only tolerate me because they knew that DH would choose me over them. She also went on with a load of other nasty things.
Although I knew that they didn't like me I was really upset by this and like you say really hurt too.

DH did confront his parents once his cousin had gone home and MIL denied the whole thing and made out like it was the cousin making it all up to cause trouble.

A few months later the shit hit the fan (we were also living next door to IL's at the time) and we are now NC with them. As a result I read Toxic Inlaws and I have to say it really helped. Although we've gone beyond the point of any return or trying to have any kind of maintainable relationship with them, it really does give an insight into your own behaviour and theirs.

I think reading this book will really help you in your 'battle to not give a shit'.
It has certainly helped me to realise that nothing I ever did would ever be right as far as they were concerned. I could be perfect in everyway and I still wouldn't be good enough for them. To be honest you do sound like a near on perfect DIL and you won't ever be good enough for them. I suspect no woman ever would be.

I wish you and your DH the best of luck.

I think some people a hate figure in their lives, in which case the more effort you make and the kinder you are the more enraged they will feel that you are not supplying what they want.

The thing that gives you the most strength to detach is being 100% sure that if you did ever have to go NC, then your DH would be busy deleting their numbers from his phone. I am absolutely secure in the knowledge that if I chose to do a runner then DH would be right behind me.
This means I win. Or I could if I choose to. But I'm not that person. Yet.
And because I've detached, it means I can support DH better in his dealings with the oddbods which works for me because I married him not them. I can be the person who hands him the cup of tea after another frustrating visit to them and moves him back to normality. Then we can forget them until their next weird phone call.

Hurrah for you! I have a feeling that the 'battle' to not give a shit won't last very long. Once you realize how much more time you have for yourself and your own family, once you realize how much happier you are I think you'll have an 'unconditional surrender' to a peaceful life!

Please help me MN, I don't know what to do

Things have escalated somewhat. DH has been really unwell (in hospital) and whilst he was there fil posted a bitchy comment on his forum about how his new normal was going to be without his sons and grandchild.

DH actually confronted him about this. Fil's response was that I was the one at fault and that I shouldn't have been reading

DH and I have come to blows tonight. It's over. Apparently it's all my fault as I've made it clear I hate them [sad-]

I've tried. I've tried so, so hard to include them. Apparently I'm the one at fault as I have to accept what they are like - ie bend over and take it.

Please MN help me. I walked out - I went to the pub and left H with DS as I couldn't bear to even look at him.

I need to protect my son. But according to DH I need to accept how they are and just get on with it.

Please help me. I think it's over. I don't know what to do

When you say "come to blows" do you mean physically?

Oh sweetheart

It's not YOU they don't like! (How could anyone not like YOU? You're amazing!)
They're mean-hearted, spiteful people. Disordered. Read the book! The Toxic In-laws book. And get Toxic Parents for your DH.

Calm down, take a breath. You are a very lovely person and none of this has anything to do with you, it is not your fault, couldn't possibly be your fault. Your husband is up to his neck in FOG. This isn't about you, this is about a horrible group of people. Irredemable, I'd say. Them, that is, not you.

Stand firm. Don't let this sway you.

Do you want to be with someone who needs his daddy to run his life for him?

the answer is no

If he doesn't come round to the reasonable point of view that his parents have been abusing you for years and he has done FA about it then he is as bad as them TBH.

Take a deep breath.

If your dh is in hospital and this all blew up with him while he was sick/worried/in hospital, then I would wait and have another calm conversation with him at a better time telling him you need him to be on your side/support you/ NOT telling you to put up with your inlaws.

I would give him that chance if this all went down when he was sick.

But then after that, yes it is awful to realise that your dh doesn't have your back, is still bound to in laws. But they sound so bloody odd that it doesn't surprise me - he has put up to get along for his whole life so he probably has no frame of reference for people who want to live their lives without putting up with crap-he literally can't understand it.

YOu have been a lovely daughter in law to them. they are nuts. if your dh can't see this and would rather live apart than admit it, then that is a hard sad fact you will have to deal with-- but living away from all this drama and stupidity could be very liberating for you.

Two things.

(a) Your husband is deep in denial about his parents. This is sadly very frequent. But ultimately they are HIS problem, not yours. It is true that there is no need for you to read your FIL's posts - really, your husband's family is none of your business, so you shouldn't concern yourself with them, in any way.

(b) Do you want to stay with your husband? If so, you might agree with him that from now on he will be the only one to deal with them. Make it clear that you think they are toxic and you won't have anything to do with them. Let him know that you will support him if and when he decides to set firmer boundaries with his family, but you won't be dragged into such a toxic mess.

Also, you say that your husband confronted his father about what he was saying about you. Which means that he does stand up for you, to a certain extent. But he just can't deal (right now) with real confrontation.