this hit home - bloke's blog

[stealtheatingtunnocks]

This is exactly what is wrong in my marriage.

Hadn't realised there was a nail, let alone that it needed hitting on it's head.

I am going to try to articulate to my husband why I need him to stack the glass in the dishwasher. Again. Sigh.

mustbethistalltoride.com/2016/01/14/she-divorced-me-because-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink/

*dishwasher

She's better off out of it.

He's still mostly in the same mindset.

"Helping"

Gives me the rage. It's not helping. Helping implies it's all her responsibility and he chips in a bit. As opposed to its household stuff that needs done by 2 competent adults.

And people wonder why it's women in their 30s and 40s who are increasingly petit img for divorce. I reckon all of this household stuff is a large part of it. Women were told they could have it all. Then they get married and have children and find out they have one adult who expects to be looked after as well as the children. Oddly enough when they are competently doing it all, sooner or later they think the only way to lighten to the load is to get rid of the adult who is not pulling their weight.

Petioning. Bloody autocorrect.

Apparently I can't spell.

DaggerEyes is my hero. Love that.

Ha. I'm going to send that to my friend. She nearly separated from her H and the thing she said to me was 'he never puts his cereal bowl in the dishwasher, he just leaves it on the side'. It wasn't the cereal bowl in isolation, it was a symbol of the general way he behaved towards her. Fortunately for them, when it got to breaking point he did accept he had fucked up and tried to make it better.

I linked to this on Facebook, DH (who will do anything asked of him but normally prefers to be instructed) was most of the way through giving the whole house a once over

Last year we had a major DIY project (as in 'oh shit, this needs fixed now' project). I have done all the DIY/decorating since we moved in here without any assistance from DW but this year I have been under severe pressure at work, had just come off medication and felt exhausted, so said to her that I didn't feel up to doing it myself, I was too tired and that if this was going to get done I needed her help.

I set on a date to start, bought everything I needed, then a few days before DW announced that she and DCs would be clearing off out of the house till I was done. Like some posters here I am fairly confrontation-averse, so swallowed it, as it followed a familiar pattern regarding this type of stuff.

My point is not to decry anything anyone else has said here (great posts, in the main). My point is that when it comes to responsibilities, I know from experience that a complete, oblivious lack of understanding of your partner's support needs at a given time and a willingness (nay, eagerness) to pass things off as someone else's responsibility is not completely restricted to men.

For the record, I wouldn't dream of leaving a cup out when it could go in the dishwasher, a pile of ironing undone, a washing machine unemptied, or a chicken un-roasted, and I don't understand those that can. Protestant work-ethic, possibly.

That's absolutely true, Nucky. Taking people for granted is not a sex linked trait.

So, anyone got some top tips about how to nudge more insightful behaviour from their partners?

I put a giant label on the butter saying "Butter in here" very PA, but very satisfying

DrSeth sounds like you might be interested in reading about Love Languages.

Interesting that somebody said they find HelpfulChap's nn grating, I always took it to be more about helpful advice on stuff the chap happens to know about, not housework.

That aside though. Holy shit, that article has resonated with me hugely. Like woolythoughts, I'm the woman who leaves everything. DH has said to me before that he experiences it as a "fuck you" but I still can't seem to match that up into actually doing things. I just notice afterwards that he's upset and then feel mopey and guilty.

Danger's tip to say "Fuck you DH, you do it" out loud just totally made me stop and think. I did it (okay I whispered it, he's right here!) and immediately thought, no, WTF, and went and put the plate in the dishwasher.

Now I'm rereading it, I'm irritated by the constant use of "a man" as though all men and only men have this problem, but I can put it aside enough to get the message. This bit especially resonated with me:

Men want to fight for their right to leave that glass there. .... The man DOES NOT want to divorce his wife because she’s nagging him about the glass thing which he thinks is totally irrational. He wants her to agree with him that when you put life in perspective, a glass being by the sink when no one is going to see it anyway, and the solution takes four seconds, is just not a big problem. She should recognize how petty and meaningless it is in the grand scheme of life, he thinks, and he keeps waiting for her to agree with him.

and

I think a lot of times, wives don’t agree with me. They don’t think it’s possible that their husbands don’t know how their actions make her feel because she has told him, sometimes with tears in her eyes, over and over and over and over again how upset it makes her and how much it hurts. ... Telling a man something that doesn’t make sense to him once, or a million times, doesn’t make him “know” something.

I'd like to add/amend: Hearing something that you don't fundamentally understand does not mean that you now "know" it. Even if you think that you do. I don't know what it is - I've read countless posts on MN from women who feel unappreciated and put upon by their husbands and I'm able to articulate to DH that I understand this is how he feels and he's relieved that I understand but then frustrated when nothing changes. Having this expressed as "This is a really easy way to show that you love somebody!" and also the conscious action of associating the inaction with a "fuck you" has changed something, I think, somehow. Because the lack of action never, ever feels like an out and out negative, it feels neutral to me, and a lack of positive is bad but it's nothing like the addition of a negative. Recognising that it's a problem in this way seems to have made a shift. Whether it will stick or not... I hope so!

Anyone shared this and had a positive outcome with their husband? Mine is greatly offended, I always handle things wrong but I swing between worrying I've done it all wrong and should be more accepting, or that he is so passive and I should expect better.

I showed this to DP last night, he read it there and then and to morning I woke up to find him collecting all the dishes up and washing them (dishwashers on the blink) and he didn't come upstairs to announce this great triumph, it's like he just did it because it needed doing.

My husband hates being told what to do, however this can be me asking him, advice, supports, whatever, so frustrating. He read it grudgingly and said the man would probably have got divorced anyway, so he missed the point. I asked him to read it again but it's like pulling teeth, so unpleasant. He doesn't think anything is wrong, I've read the whole blog, I'm checking out emotionally already. Have ordered the book he linked too. If we ever split up and he asks why he was never warned ... Perhaps me sitting and reading 'How to save your marriage' might be a too subtle a warning.

I'm in bed with pneumonia. I've barely been out of it for ten days. DH is being brilliant working from home where he can, coordinating all the children's meals and school pickups, running them to swimming and football, etc.

But I'm still doing the brain-wifework. I had to do a meal plan from the online shop DH arranged; I had to sort the dirty washing before he could wash it, and fold it once it was dry. I have to tell him which days are lunchbox days and who had a bath when.

Last night I laid out in detail how we prepare for Wednesday morning (sport club before school) and DH was totally on board, even insisting I take a second dose of the painkillers/tranquillisers I've been prescribed when the first lot ran out.

They left for school without the uniform I'd neatly folded for them. School rang me, of course. At that point I realised there was no hope he'd have made a packed lunch so I ventured downstairs to do it. Two hours later and I'm just about recovering from the effort.

Thing is, he thinks he's doing brilliantly because he's doing absolutely loads more than usual. He just has no fucking idea how much headspace this all takes up, continually planning 6/12/24/48 hours ahead to work out who'll need to wear what when, and what foods go together to make a balanced diet and what needs defrosting, and how to be in three places at once.

The explicit fuck you Sally I'll leave this for Sally to do idea is really interesting. We've been looking at the MN idea of "don't put it down: put it away" for a while and I think this is the natural extension of it.

I'm a sahm with a 4 month old and a 4 year old, I'm also trying to run my own business from home in my 'spare' time.
I do about 99% of the work towards running the home. If there's a particular reason I can't cook dinner, dh will suggest a takeaway rather than cooking for us all.
I do all the school runs, the childcare, the food shopping, planning for holidays, birthdays etc, in addition to everything in the home.
I am utterly exhausted to the point of tears.

A couple of weeks ago dh told me I was 'living the dream' that I didn't have to go to work, and that by complaining about it, it was ruining 'his dream'.
He works doing a job he enjoys and is good at, with a lot of respect from his seniors, gets to 'work' from home one day a week, and gets paid well for it.
Then comes home and expects everything to be done for him, to the extent of leaving all of his dirty clothes on the floor like a teenager.

Not sure who is living the dream, but I'm pretty sure it's not me.

Trouble is he's also very sensitive about being asked to do more, as if he already gives his all, so if I show him the blog, he'll get all huffy!

Yes I also think that 'Fuck you, Sally' is a great idea and will certainly use this when DC are a little bigger. Well, maybe in some little bit milder wording.

Snorted at 'Perhaps me sitting and reading 'How to save your marriage' might be a too subtle a warning.' Kitty. Tsk of course it's too subtle, you have not ordered a big neon lights spelling out 'divorce imminent, caution!'

A lot of this resonated with me too. There are a lot of discussions around this subject going on in my house atm. I do wonder, though, whether his ex wife wver told him how she felt. Seems like a lack of communication both ways.

I am less likely to load the dishwasher (dh can't abide clutter and mess but somehow has no problem with crunchy floors and dust). But I'm only just managing to get him to realise how exhausting the whole thinking thing is. Choosing meals, remembering which child has to be where with what kit on which day. That sort of thing.

Since retiring my DH has taken over the bins and recycling, I think it suits him as it has to be done on a particular day so he doesn't have to judge if it needs doing or not.

The problem is he gets it all wrong Every Single Week.

I have now decided to respect his right to be stupid and leave him to it. I just hope that any letters from the council are addressed to him.

Mine saw it on facebook and without readind it sarcastically said I'll be sure not to leave a cup by the sink. Did eventually read it and said "I don't get it". This morning I got the kids to shift some of there stuff and he then picked his up and washed his cup (I think he is taking the whole cup thing as the issue). I did say I don't mind doing the cleaning as I am at home - but it's picking up after everyone that does me in, and may seem petty, but to me it's not. Think a lightbulb might have gone on then but we shall see. Might try the fuck you helhath route if not.

On this thread so many posters have forwarded it to their DH in the HOPE they understand it.
Why can't they be direct and tell their DH why they sent it.
People are not mind readers.

I've seen it from my friends marriage, he cooks something and according to the wive it's the wrong type of meal.
He does the house shop and according to her it's the wrong kind of shopping; it's too expensive or too cheap.
Then next time he thinks it's better to ask. She's not happy because she feels 'responsible'.

I agree with sije women should respect the right for the partner to be stupid.

Stumbly "So stepping back means we have to become comfortable that things won't be the way WE want them all of the time. They won't necessarily be to OUR standards."

I've tried that. Well, I've had a few long periods of being bedridden in pregnancy or ill or working very long hours.

And everything fell apart. No food. No meals. No washing done. A few years ago, when I had a number of contracts all finishing at the same time, my DH came into the bedroom one morning and said that he had no clean work trousers to wear. He ended up taking a day of leave.

It was then that I realised the situation was just ridiculous, and we had to make changes. But it is tricky because it's not just a question of doing tasks, but planning how and when they need doing - - and also putting mechanisms in place that make the work more manageable.

I've read a lot of mn threads about this issue, and what helped my DH somewhat was the notion that the domestic work was 50% my work and 50% his work. I said to him: "Why is washing and ironing your shirt my work? I have my own clothes to wash and iron."

He realised then, but the problem is that, after a few weeks, he slides back to not doing things again. And we end up with an empty fridge and no clean clothes.

Arsenaltilidie

Sorry, but your friend sounds like a nightmare to live with. Does her husband have no say in what is bought? Does he have no say in what he cooks?

I like it Dagger, I might borrow that idea....

And just to add...

What is so bizarre with my DH is that he saw the same dynamics play out with his parents and complained about it because he got so concerned and realised it has caused him health problems in his youth.

His mother worked long hours with night on-call shifts and his father did nothing in the house whatsoever (and both refused to entertain the idea of a cleaner). In the years before his DM retired, the house became dirty - - as in "mud trodden into bathroom mats and rugs" dirty. She simply couldn't keep up with it at all.

My DH said something and all hell broke loose. It was at that point he realised that his eye and skin problems as a teen had been exacerbated by the fact the house wasn't very clean.

But he still doesn't seem to equate a clean house with the necessity for him to do any domestic tasks.

I have the same issues and my marriage is just about finished tbh. He has started to do things around the house now but makes a big deal of it and I am expected to thank him for it . Breakfast things that are left out will be put away 'in his own time' and not mine so I get home from work to find nothing put away or tidied. I should leave lists of things he needs to do or he won't remember to do them apparently. I have stopped this and he has missed several medical appointments but doesn't seem to have learned from this.
I work full time and he doesn't work but still thinks he shouldn't have to do certain jobs. He even muttered something about 'womens work' once but wouldn't repeat the comment when I asked him what was said.
It's really disrespectful but his family reckon that you can't just get divorced over housework problems - totally missing the point.