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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

22 wks pregnant - to stay with controlling OH in London or leave and raise baby alone in Scotland with family?

416 replies

msatlantis · 25/01/2016 18:03

This is my first post (and a very long one), but I would really welcome some impartial views and advice, thank you in advance.

I have been with my OH for one year. We got introduced by mutual friends (one of my best friends "E", who is also married to one of his friends).

At the time we met, I had just gone through a divorce (no children) and had decided to leave my (good) job in London to return 'home' to my family in Scotland. I bought a flat in Scotland and spent my savings on renovating it.

So, I left for Scotland, but we ended up being in touch constantly, visited each other most weekends and after 3 months working and living in Scotland I decided to make the move back down south to be with him. We were crazy about each other.
At the time, I wanted us to 'date' for another few months before re-locating (again) but he didn't see the point in waiting and was quite distressed when I suggested this. He has a high-pressure, high-profile job which requires him to be in London. I returned to London on 1 July.

I was lucky enough to for my employer to offer me my previous job back. But I had no savings and depended on my OH for accommodation.

Then, it was as though the honey-moon period ended. I never seemed to be able to do anything right. This ranged from being accused of not giving his feelings due consideration to deliberately postponing the process of applying for my decree absolute from my former husband (the delay was due to the court process). I didn't "get" his job, didn't give him adequate "support" and didn't compliment him enough! He is tea-total, and if we were out for a meal at the weekend, he would get annoyed if I had more than one small glass of wine and feel the need to start a discussion about the 'dangers' of alcohol.

During the summer, my friend "E" sent me an email in which she said that she had met up with "J" (another man who she had introduced me to at the beginning of the year) and that he "said hello". My OH saw this email and took absolute offence to it, claiming that "E" was still trying to initiate a relationship between me and "J" despite us being a serious relationship. I spoke to "E", and this was not her intention, she was simply passing on a friendly message, but my OH was, and is still, fuming. He then accused "E" of being racist toward one of his friends, and of being manipulative toward both me and her husband. I have known "E" for 15 years and she is one of the sweetest girls I can think of and a true family friend. My OH then said he wanted me to stop email contact with "E", to limit text messages, and not to see her in the evenings. I felt quite vulnerable as I had moved back to London with no money and didn't have anywhere to go even if I wanted. I agreed, though continued to see "E" for lunches.

In August my OH and I were in Edinburgh for the weekend. We ended up having a big row where he accused me of "keeping things from him". He was paranoid about who I had been dating round-about the time he and I got together, and whether I was still in contact with any of these men (I wasn't). He said he had had enough and spat in my face. I was shaking and shocked, but chose not to do anything about it (now, I wish I had probably walked away at this point). The next day we had another row (think shouting/swearing), at which point I telephoned my Mum and sister to come round to the flat as I was shaking like a leaf. We ended up deciding to try and work things out and returned to London together.

Things did not improve much in late August, early September. His hatred toward "E" had become worse, I felt as though I could do no right, and one night he threw all of my clothes out of the wardrobe and all of my jewelery on the floor and told me to go (this was at 11pm at night). I told him I would leave the next morning. The next morning, he said he wanted to try and work things out. Again, for some reason, I agreed.

However mid-September I had had enough. I stayed with a work colleague one night after work and sent my OH an email saying I wasn't sure if things were going to work out and I needed some time out to figure out what was best for us. I returned to our flat the next day to find absolutely no trace of my belongings whatsoever. I couldn't get a hold of him, and it was only when I left a voicemail threatening to call the police, that his mother called me and told me all of my belongings had been packed up and were in her garage.

My Mum flew down the next day, and came with me to pick up some of my things (what we could carry as we didn't have a car). I stayed with my work colleague for a few nights and in my mind the relationship was over. My OH then started texting me saying he wanted us to talk, sent me flowers at work, and said that he still loved me. We met up and ended up talking, he convinced me to give the relationship another go. I then went to Scotland on my own for a few days, during which I didn't quite feel like myself. I discovered I was pregnant. I decided to delay telling him until I had figured out what I wanted to do.

When I returned to London, things were unusually calm between us and after about a fortnight, I told him I thought I was pregnant. He was really positive about the pregnancy and for a few weeks after that he was really sweet and attentive.

We went up to Scotland for my birthday in October. I went up two days earlier than him. On my birthday evening, I found messages on his phone which suggested he had taken another woman to dinner while I had been on my own in Scotland. He said it was a "group dinner", but I am still not sure I believe him.

And over the past month or so, his behavior has been unpredictable and moody. At Christmas, he only agreed to us going up to Scotland to see my family for 3 days (we had a fortnight off) so that he could "rest properly". I miss my family SO much (we are very close) and I am told then when the baby arrives our trips to Scotland might only be once a year as we must put the baby first and it is unfair to travel with a little one. We never do anything fun because he's always tired. We discuss things only when he wants to discuss them. He couldn't make the baby's 20 week scan "due to work" at the beginning of January which I was really upset about. I then got accused of "guilt-tripping" him. A fortnight ago a huge shouting match (only he was shouting) ensued about money/looking at new houses. My OH acted like a petulant child toward me and his mother. I was left crying and shaking.

Last weekend, he completely took me by surprise by proposing. I didn't say "yes" immediately, which caused major offence - as I wanted to talk about it and I was still feeling shaken from the shouting match the previous weekend. He is adamant we get married before the baby's arrival in May even though I wanted to wait until the end of the year when I would feel more comfortable. Anyway, both my OH and his Mum put pressure on me to agree to a wedding in April.

On Friday, we ended up having a conversation about "E" - he said she is not permitted to be in our house at any time or see the baby once it is born, and that I am not allowed to send any photos of the baby to her. I said he was being disproportionate and I was told that he did "a lot" for me, that I should "be grateful" but that he had to "put his foot down" in respect of this. Given that "E" has recently moved to Manchester I am left feeling as though I am never going to be able to see her again. Is OH's controlling behavior only going to get worse?

Since our conversation about "E" he has been sullen.

I confided in my Mum this weekend and she is concerned. She said if it all felt too much I should just make arrangements to come back to Scotland and have the baby there. That my family would support me. I feel coerced by him... every time I think about leaving I seem to get drawn back into the fold. I don't know what to do now. There is no one in my family who is a single parent, and I am terrified. If we get married and I stay will I be able to take my baby to Scotland if things get worse? I know that if a friend of mine told me the above had happened to her, I would tell her she should have got rid of her OH a long time ago, but being in love and being vulnerable skews everything.

I don't know what to do. I thought about just not pandering to him over the next week or so (I usually try and keep the peace) and seeing if everything just unravels.

OP posts:
FinallyFreeFromItAll · 29/02/2016 14:58

He is also trying to guilt-trip me by saying that I have no consideration for his feelings, and that I will be taking his only child away from him if I move to Scotland permanently. Should I feel bad if his contact with his child is limited

No way in hell should you feel guilty! Your priority is to protect your child. If you don't protect your child then you should feel guilty.

Don't enter into any further discussion with him and talk to women's aid for help and advice. He knows exactly what he has done and guess what - he's still doing it.

PreemptiveSalvageEngineer · 29/02/2016 15:21

There's an old saying:

"Never try to teach s pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig."

I think a more accurate version of that should be "... It wastes your time and gives the pig more things to beat you round the head with".

Not quite the same snappy ring to it, but bear it in mind

He. Will. Never. Geddit.

Stop trying.

Good to hear you're still safe.

TheChocolateDidIt · 29/02/2016 15:26

Stop corresponding with him OP. I had a controlling OH. I dumped him, but he kept calling me etc. I had a new mobile phone and it took me weeks to work out how to access voicemail and messages! Turns out this was fortuitous. The messages went from nice, to manipulative to accusing and horrible to apologetic as my unintentional silence went on. When I eventually accessed the messages there was a final one saying 'sorry, I will leave you alone' and I heard nothing more.

Change your email address and cease correspondence. I reckon you'll go round in circles otherwise. And do not feel guilty about his access to your DC or that of his mother's. Its their fault not yours.

OohMavis · 29/02/2016 15:27

He's still treating you as his property, isn't he? Forcing you to explain yourself and trying to make you feel ashamed. He doesn't own you, you have no obligation to give him a good enough reason.

The time may have come to cut him off, for the sake of your mental health and the health of your baby. One-sentence replies to questions relating to contact or maintenance for the baby, no pandering to his guilt trips and manipulation.

I think you're incredibly strong Flowers

PhoenixReisling · 29/02/2016 15:52

Stop explaining,he will never understand.

Every time you explain etc, it is something he will use to beat you with.

Remember, this is psychological warfare.....so stop engaging.

Keep the email he contacts you with but get another and use that for everyday/work related things.

Do the same with your phone.

Whatever, you do I would have you baby in Scotland and as others have said you only need to communicate with him re: contact when the baby is born.

Don't let him bully you regarding contact....msatlantis, you will have to travel to London so I can see baby/I want baby over night......

msatlantis · 29/02/2016 16:12

PhoenixReisling yes I need to stop engaging.

Keep any contact to the minimum regarding maintenance/contact (if any).

I have never had any sort of relationship with someone like this before, it really is something else.

OP posts:
Pinkheart5915 · 29/02/2016 16:13

Go to Scotland.

HopefulHamster · 29/02/2016 16:15

I'd be worried about the baby around the big dogs he doesn't look after properly, tbh. Sounds as if the dogs would be a factor whether it was him or his mum doing childcare!

Stay as far away from him as you can.

PhoenixReisling · 29/02/2016 16:17

msatlantis

You are doing so well and getting angry is good!

Wait until your baby is born.....that inner lioness will roar Wink

Flowers
PreemptiveSalvageEngineer · 29/02/2016 16:17

There's a line in West Wing, when reporters were harassing one of the lead characters: "Don't accept the premise of the question".

Don't accept that he even has the right to ask. Whenever you answer his harangues, you're giving validation to his fucked up belief that you own him One Damned Thing.

PreemptiveSalvageEngineer · 29/02/2016 16:18

Owe, not own. #badphone.

HazelBite · 29/02/2016 16:33

How about next time he emails just saying "I do not like you very much, you are not nice, stop emailing I do not want to engage with you any more"

Then just ignore him until you have to get in touch with him.

IonaNE · 29/02/2016 18:15

OP, I was horrified to read your original post and I'm so glad you have decided to move to Scotland and end it with this abusive male.
It has been suggested but just to repeat: do not put his name on the birth certificate. This ringfences your parental rights.
I think not engaging with him is the best way. However, when he writes things like you are "irrational", etc., I would be very tempted to throw this back at him and say that in this case he is much better off without an "irrational" etc. woman. This is an efficient way to shut people like him up.

Skiptonlass · 29/02/2016 18:24

I used to live in Edinburgh and I would move back in a heartbeat if it was possible. Fantastic city.

Please don't go back. Move to Scotland. If you're resident in England at the time of the birth he can take out an order to prevent you moving away. It's critical that you move.

Don't JADE - justify, apologise, defend or explain. As someone above says, if you do you accept the premise of the question. Keep communication to email, keep all emotion out of it and only respond to things that absolutely need a response.

All the best of luck to you. Edinburgh really is wonderful. Get this arse out of your life for good and start anew.

springydaffs · 29/02/2016 18:28

When you do [have to ] contact him, don't make any refetence to his points. Not even ' I'm not going to answer your points '.

msatlantis · 29/02/2016 18:51

Good advice.
"Don't accept the premise of the question".
And don't JADE.

What are the consequences of having him named on the birth certificate? What rights does he get with 'parental responsibility' that could negatively interfere with me and DC's life?

OP posts:
rumbleinthrjungle · 29/02/2016 19:17

It's a common trick of abusive people: they demand a reason they AGREE WITH before they will accept what you say as the truth.

He is never going to agree he is an abusive bastard who has badly treated you.

This IS a different ballgame, you are so right that people like this are something else. The only way to deal with them is to disengage, totally. Any attention you give him feeds him fuel.

rumbleinthrjungle · 29/02/2016 19:18

Meant to add: do make sure your midwives/health visitors are fully aware you have fled abuse and control from him. That is really important for them to know.

goddessofsmallthings · 29/02/2016 20:13

From www.gov.uk/parental-rights-responsibilities/what-is-parental-responsibility:

"All mothers and most fathers* have legal rights and responsibilities as a parent - known as ‘parental responsibility’.

If you have parental responsibility, your most important roles are to:

provide a home for the child
protect and maintain the child

If you have parental responsibility for a child you don’t live with, you don’t necessarily have a right to contact with them - but the other parent still needs to keep you updated about their well-being and progress.

You’re also responsible for:

disciplining the child
choosing and providing for the child’s education
agreeing to the child’s medical treatment
naming the child and agreeing to any change of name
looking after the child’s property

Parents have to ensure that their child is supported financially, whether they have parental responsibility or not."

*'Most fathers' means those who are married to the mothers of children born in wedlock and those who are named on the birth certificates of children born to unmarried mothers.

Having been given excellent advice from unmarried women who have not named abusive sperm donors fathers on their dc's birth certificates, and from those who have done so and have lived to regret it, I'm saddened to see that you've asked this question as it seems you either haven't read what's been said here or haven't bothered to do your own research to find out the extent to which he will be able to exercise control, yank your chain, and generally interfere with your life and that of your dc if you are fool enough to name him on the birth certificate.

I have no hesitation in saying that the father of your dc-to-be is one of the most dangerous men I have read about on this board as, when he spat on you, he showed that he has nothing but contempt not only for you but for ALL women.

Imo he has issues with his mother that he is not acknowledging and he has turned his anger against her into rage against every other woman on the planet to the extent that NO WOMAN IS SAFE WITH HIM.

I advised you upthread to tell him that you were leaving the UK to give birth at the home of a distant relative in Canada or New Zealand, or tell him that you have miscarried, and CUT ALL CONTACT with him and I stand by that advice.

I make no apology for the length of this post as I am now fearful that, far from becoming Pheonix's "lioness", you will dissolve into a puddle of hormonal sentimentality on the birth of your dc and will be persuaded to 'do the right thing' by allowing him to accompany you to the Register Office so that his name can be put on the birth certificate to the great and lasting disadvantage of the child and of yourself.

tipsytrifle · 29/02/2016 20:54

Actually you can indeed align and assess how folk treat animals for life values and behavioural traits. I can't believe you would surrender the certainty of love and protection you can offer your child in Scotland for a brewing nightmare.

ratspeaker · 29/02/2016 21:17

To register a birth in Scotland it has to be within 21 days of the birth.
For an unmarried man to be registered as the father he has to attend and sign the register at the same time as the mother.

Do you really want to be in the same room as him when you are vulnerable just after having a baby?

If he really wants he can go through the courts, be declared the father and have his name added.

Personally I think you should have the baby in Scotland where you will have the support of your family.
Then Id forget to mention that you have less time to register than in rest of UK.

My friend had a father like your ex.
To the outside he was respectable citizen, successful ( think big house in/Morningside) , involved in worthy causes.
To his wife and family he was a dictating bully, he would pick fault with the slightest thing, made arbitary rules. It was their fault he had to smack them , throw away toys, throw out winter coats/clothes he thought were " common" ( without them having replacements)
He was incredulous when they left, she was mad, had influenced the children, he wouldnt pay the school fees etc etc.
My friend has needed a good councillor and CBT to gain any self belief
Please save your child from a life like that.

cheminotte · 01/03/2016 06:44

Glad you are OK Atlantis . Just to repeat what others have said

  • try and get signed off sick until mat leave starts
  • go back to Scotland and stay there, start looking for a new job there towards the end of your mat leave but don't resign until the last minute so you are accruing annual leave and pension contributions as well as continuity of employment.
  • DO NOT PUT HIM ON THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE ! - would you want him to look after the child if you died?
Kr1stina · 01/03/2016 10:17

Have your baby is Scotland supported by your loving family . Do not inform your ex of the birth . As soon as you are out of hospital , go along and register the birth. It's very simple , they give you a document when you leave hospital . You can do it the next day . So you need to think of names now Grin .

Once you have registered the birth , THEN ( if you wish) inform your ex of the baby's arrival. Personally I wouldn't tell him , id just cut all contact now.

But I suspect you believe that if you can just get him to understand why you left and agree with you, everything will be all right . It won't . Seriously, it won't .

wheresthebeach · 01/03/2016 10:25

His feelings aren't your responsibility.

Stay away and take care of yourself and your baby.

As everyone else has said - don't put his name on the birth certificate.

RiceCrispieTreats · 01/03/2016 10:44

I recommend that you have a trusted friend vet any emails from him, and give you a summary of anything concrete they might contain, filtering out the emotional manipulation and other abusive crap. I did that when I left my own abusive ex-H - stopped reading anything he sent me, and had someone vet his emails for me and just tell me if there was anything important in there I should know - and it was a great way to build my strength and not cave to the emotional manipulation.

And give yourself the right to stop contacting him. You can't convince him of something he doesn't want to see. Detach, let go. The fact that you know you were unhappy in that relationship is enough - you don't need anyone else to acknowledge it. He definitely never will acknowledge his own poor behaviour - and that's ok. Some people just can't face up to responsibility for their own actions.

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