My friend has been really rude to my DS

[Greedylittlehamster]

My DS (17) owed his friend (18) £10 from several months ago and had forgotten to pay it back. His friend had reminded him once a few weeks ago by text and DS said that his friend could drop round sometime and get the money. DS was hoping to see the friend and spend some time with him if he dropped by as they haven't seen each other in ages. My DS clearly wasn't viewing the problem as important as he says him and all his friends always borrow money off each other and it all evens out in the end as they buy things for each other.

DS's friend's mum is one of my friends and we meet up each week with other friends as a group. She had reminded me a couple of times that my DS owed her DS money and I had reminded my DS and told him to prioritise paying him back as it was obviously a concern. Thinking back I should have just given her the money but I felt my DS should take responsibility.

A couple of days ago, I was out and my DS was in the house on his own in the shower and he heard a very loud hammering on the front door. It must have been loud as he was in the shower at the other end of the house with music blaring out. He ignored it as he was in the shower and then he heard the house phone ringing and ringing so he got out of the shower and answered it. It was my friend at the door. She demanded that he get dried and dressed and come to the door and pay her DS back the money even though it would mean he would not have breakfast and may be late for work. Once he was downstairs and opened the door she really laid into him saying it was a disgusting way to treat his friend and how unacceptably he had behaved and accused him of getting back in the shower and leaving her waiting. She ranted on for a bit. DS did not have the money in the house so she made him get in her car and she drove him to the cash point. Both of her DS's were also in the car watching all of this. DS then had to drive 45 minutes to work and do an 8 hour shift having eaten nothing until his break much later. DS was very upset about the whole thing but kept his temper in front of her.

DS was in the wrong for not repaying the money and he admits that and I hope has learnt a lesson but I feel my friend's reaction was very over the top. If my DS owed someone £10 at 18 years old, I would not get involved. My son (17) has been very shaken by her aggressive manner and I will now have to meet her later in the week and am worried what I say to her and if I should stick up for my son even though he should have paid the money back in the first place. She is bound to say something when we meet as she is likely to feel pleased with herself. She also upset one of the other friends in our group before Christmas when she phoned my friend and told her off for her DS not contacting her DS regularly and how bad it was after all her family had done for my other friend. My other friend was very upset about this as it was the second time that it had happened and her DS is feeling forced into a friendship with the other young man by the actions of his mother.

I don't want to upset my friendship group but I do feel she is overstepping the mark.

I think this level of parental involvement in the finances and friendships of two young adults is frankly bizarre.

Yes, your son was obviously in the wrong for not repaying the money when asked. (In fact this entire sorry tale is like a parable for why you should 'neither a borrower not a lender be'.)

But what on earth was this woman's son saying to her about the unrepaid tenner in order to get her arriving at the house at breakfast time, banging on the door and phoning, and getting someone out of the shower, and forcing them off to a cashpoint??? Presumably her son told her, otherwise she would have had no idea...?

And isn't his friend (your 'friend's DS) now likely to be a laughing stock among his friendship group, for having a mother who desperately tries to revive flagging friendship groups and shows up banging on doors to retrieve lent tenners, like a mad bailiff? Does she think this is likely to revive a flagging friendship?

I would be dignified but very direct with the 'friend'. How your young adult sons deal with loans needs to be among themselves (and no money should change hands between those two again), but her aggressive, intimidating behaviour at your house certainly needs to be addressed by you. She should be left under no illusions that she doesn't get to behave like some kind of debt collector to the Krays.

Also, OP, the other thing that emerges from your post is why your son allowed himself to be bullied into opening the door, shouted at and taken to a cashpoint? He isn't a child, and I'm a bit taken aback that he went along with all of this. Maybe a talk about acceptable and unacceptable behaviour/boundaries, and what a dignified/defusing response would have been?

But - your son should have paid the money back way sooner. He was reminded several times, he asked the other boy to come to his house for it - wtf? Hope he's learned from that.

And I really don't think much harm will come to him having not had breakfast before work one day!

Also, if this is his version of events, have you asked your friend her version? Are they the same?

Your DS should have made more of an effort to pay the money back by taking it to him himself, not asking his friend to come to collect it! That is totally rude.

But your friend's reaction was bonkers.

Think you'd be better speaking to your son regarding his reluctance to pay his debts? And he wants to text his friend whining about how he feels? Bloody hell. Ridiculous. He sounds like a spoiled 6 year old.

I agree that my DS is in the wrong and not having breakfast won't kill him but I do feel her reaction was way over the top. He said that his friend reminded him only once but I did remind him a couple of times and asked him to make it a priority. I don't feel that it was my responsibility to pay the money back. It was his debt and if I keep bailing him out he won't learn to take responsibility. He has a part time job and could afford it. He just kept forgetting because he doesn't see the friend often. He actually invites his friend out quite a bit but the friend prefers to stay in a lot. I don't want to fall out with him over this as his Dad supports him 100% and he will just walk out and go and live with him because he feels so upset about it and I don't feel so strongly about his wrong doing in this to be wiling to risk that. We have talked about it a lot and he knows he was wrong. I think he said that he had apologised but I will check again.

Did she know your son would be home alone? I think I would be livid that she took advantage knowing he would be alone!

She sounds bonkers and I would distance myself from her and encourage your ds to distance himself from he ds.

On the other hand your ds should have paid back the money long before now!

This

She's over reacted but at the same time how many times did your son get told about it and did nothing, sorry but don't have much sympathy, I can't stand folk that think it's alright to borrow money (the amount is immaterial) and then somehow forget to pay it back, hopefully he has learned a hard lesson - pay your debts!

Yes, the mother has gone completely ott and sounds a bit bonkers, but ultimately I have no sympathy for your breakfastless ds. a) he should have paid it back as soon as he could after borrowing it b) once reminded the first time, he should have taken it round there c) he had endless reminders after that - hopefully this might have taught him the difference between the word 'borrow' and 'take'.
I have teens and hope if a friend were stuck they could help them out, but neither of them can afford to just lose a tenner - that's a lot of money at that age.

He actually invites his friend out quite a bit but the friend prefers to stay in a lot

Wants to stay in or is blackmailed/forced by his mother to stay in?

I wouldnt be at all worried about upsetting the friendship group tbh, as it seems she has pissed everyone off. I would inclined to let her bring it up in front of everyone and then, again in front of everyone, tear her a new one and tell her that she has pissed you all off in one way or another and that you are utterly sick of her over bearing and interfering behaviour. The only reason she gets away with it is because you all let her!

I don't think his friend was that bothered about the money from what my DS has said. They tend to pay each other back by buying tickets and drinks etc. I think she has somehow found out about it and then has made it her mission to get it back. Her DS was very embarrassed in the car. Similar things have happened before. My DS and other friends have regularly invited him to do things and he keeps saying no. My DS and him were in a gym together and my DS kept asking him to go together. His friend kept refusing. Then I had his mother on several occasions complaining to me that her DS didn't go to the gym because he had no one to go with and that my DS was never available. I mentioned it to my DS and he showed me all the texts between him and his friend where his friend had turned him down. The same has happened about nights out and other activities. Once she complained to all of my friends that her DS wasn't invited to join the group of friends travelling to a party and I knew that he had joined them and travelled with them because my son had talked about the journey. I think that her DS lies to her to get her off his back. I would much rather not be involved in which friends my some choses to meet as long as there are no major issues with his friends. I now feel I have to do something in this case.

Unfortunately, he will be the laughing stock of his friends for his mother's actions. He already is. My other friend's DS is a family friend and he gets really upset about her forcing the 2 of them to get together.

"He said that his friend reminded him only once but I did remind him a couple of times and asked him to make it a priority."

Why did he even need reminding?

And telling his friend to collect his own money is just taking the piss.

OTT from the mother, but who knows what her son has said?

Weird dynamic going on with her DS as well then.

Cut them loose. After you've told her just what you think about her "Big Woman" approach of bullying your 17yo like she did.

I think I would text and ask her what happened and did she hammer at the door? Give her chance to explain her side and perhaps a very different version of events.

At 18 they should be sorting own problems out and not getting mums involved over something quite petty. I'd be angry at my son or lending money that he couldn't afford to lend, but leave the emphasis on him sorting it out. As the mum had previously mentioned it o you, I would have asked my son to go and pay it back right then, as he has a car he doesn't have an excuse. He could have gone round and popped it through he door just to save you anymore embarrassment.

as it is now, until she has let you know her version of events I would not be prepared to speak to her. If her version is similar to ds' then I would be cutting her out, but if it was different, i.e. she knocked and waited and no ranting, then id be prepared to let it go this time.

^^This. She completely over-reacted but your ds treated his friend like shit. I suggest you drop the friendship and keep out of it tbh

My DS is planning on whining to his friend. They are both fine with each other. He wants to say to the mother how she made him feel when she was aggressive towards him. I think that's fine. He's not going to be rude back but want her to know that her behaviour was inappropriate for the situation and she could have expressed her views in a more appropriate manner. He genuinely wanted to see the friend and thought that would be a good opportunity to pay back although I have explained how that might have looked, it wasn't intended. He didn't fancy going round to the house as he fines the mum difficult and has received a stroppy text of her in the past for something that he didn't do. DS is very laid back with lots of friends.

Asking her for her version is a good idea, but based on her history with my other friend and how my ds has described her reaction I feel it is likely that she did do what her said. My DS has been upset for his DS is the past for how his mum speaks to him at home.

I have talked to my son about not opening the door in future and that he can always close the door in situations like that. He could have also driven his car to the cash point himself rather than suffered the humiliation of her driving him. There is a history of emotional abuse with his father, so perhaps we are all a bit conditioned to accept it.

Sorry I meant "My DS is NOT planning on whinging to his friend.."

I think the mother acted oddly but your son has been quite unspeakably rude to be honest

Why was this boy to go round to your house to collect the money? Your DS should have returned it to him or done a bank transfer

My DCs are all under 3 so I don't have a teenager. However, if someone mentioned that my DS had borrowed money from their son and not paid it back, I would stump up straight away. No let the other boy get caught up and disadvantaged in some learning experience about responsibility that I want to give my DS. To be honest, I'd be really disappointed at that age that I was having to do that and he didn't know he should return the money ASAP.

Speak to her, don't take your son's word for it, he's already showed himself up as disrespectful, I am sorry but I wouldn't believe it as being truthful until I'd heard her version!

And don't judge her because some friend has told you a story, judge her on how she replies when you ask her.

You seem insistent on believing she's a mad woman, I guess she was mad out of anger, doesn't make her a loony.

She sounds fucking nuts!

If I were your DS I'd feel sorry for my friend too. Poor lad.

I think that this is your opportunity to model some appropriate behaviours for your son.

You should not display or retaliate with anger, even behind closed doors to your son.

You should ask him what he thinks he would do differently - ie pay the money earlier, and not feel the need to comply to be frog marched out of his house by anyone.

You could teach him that her behaviour was very unreasonable and hysterical - but he does not need to jump to that tune and should have a simple strategy to diffuse and not engage etc.

Important life lessons that no doubt he will need to deploy frequently.

You could encourage him to grow his own back bone and for him to approach her directly to say calmly x,y,z - with you standing by but not getting involved - you also might model for her how to let her own children grow.

You could also encourage him to chat calmly with his friend - I feel really sorry for her son.

She did express her views in a more appropriate manner. To you. Nothing came of it. You still don't actually know what happened but he sounds ridiculously immature and spoiled, not to say dishonest. And that's just from the facts you've given us. You still don't have both sides of the story from the morning. You need to stop indulging him.

She went way over the top, but it's such bad manners to tell someone who's done you a favour to go out of their way to come and collect the money they lent you.
Doesn't excuse her bonkers behaviour though.
Maybe her son is careless with money or frequently lends it to friends without getting it back and she flipped?

opens the DrMorbius bag of child rearing mantra's
As I always used to say to my DC's. If you give some the ammunition and they fire it at you, don't complain it's your fault.

This woman and her DS may be loons. Alternatively her DS may be owed thousands by other friends equally apathetic in paying back. The truth is you don't know why she acted as she did, but you do know that your DS's lack of urgency in repayinging the loan was the cause of all this unpleasantness.

Agree with drmorbus and will be filing away that quote for future use!

Your son was in the wrong, both you and he have acknowledged that.

On the face of all you have posted, she sounds frightfully overbearing and unable to detach, but there's always two sides to a story.

Get her version of events, calmly explain that your son has been upset by her aggressive attitude (and if she denies it, explain that she came across as aggressive whether she intended to or not) and that in your opinion the DC need to sort things out between themselves, and that it is not OK for adults to try to force their way into these situations. That you have had to advise your DS that next time someone hammers on the door and asks him to get in a car with them you would advise closing the door and resuming the discussion at another time.

Reiterate that you have had a long discussion with your DS about paying his debts, but that it does seem to have been a "clash of parenting styles" and perhaps best if we agree to stay out of these things.

She'll inevitably get the hump, but really she behaved so badly you have no choice but to say something.

This woman would not be my friend anymore. Yes your DS was wrong, we have established that so let's move on. Her reaction was completely disproportionate to the event. I'd be fuming at her coming to my house, shouting the odds at my child and then forcing him in the car to get the money. Given she has form for being overbearing in her sons life and upsetting other friends with her behaviour, I'd not have anything more to do with her. Maybe you need to show your son that you have his back. I'm sure he has earned his lesson now.