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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

It's long, I'm so in the wrong, but I'm in a mess and need a place to talk...

424 replies

AnotherFineMess16 · 20/01/2016 15:34

... if you could see your way fit to let me and reach a hand into the flames that I suspect are about to engulf me. I'm ready.

Nobody knows any of this. Some people know some things, but nobody knows it all apart from me and him. I suppose I'm at the point now I need an outside, objective opinion from somebody who, yes, might judge, but will do so from a place of fairness and neutrality (I hope). I thank you in advance.

16 years ago, I embarked on an 2 year long affair. He was married, I was single. I was 24, he was 30. Yes, there were kids involved, I know it was wrong, but I did it. I have no excuses, unless love/infatuation/lust is one. There is no other. It was wrong, we were wrong, I knew it, he knew it, yet we did it. There is nothing I can do to change that now. Long story short, he left his then wife and we were together. About a year afterwards, he dumped me from a great height. Completely out of the blue and it devastated me. "Karma" I hear you cry? Maybe so, I don't believe in it particularly, but this was certainly payback. A couple of months later, he came to me to tell me that he had gotten another girl pregnant. The dates suggest that she was impregnated either very close to the end of our relationship or just before. I have never had the stomach to ask too many questions, we were over anyway and I was already in a very, very dark place and physically and mentally could not cope with any more at this point. I'm not exaggerating when I tell you that I was in pieces. He wanted me back several times thereafter, but I couldn't and wouldn't. And, as it does, life moved on and so did I eventually. We stayed in touch throughout the years. The odd text, mail or (drunken) phone call. Ashamed to say there were a few nights together in there too. He would always tell me he made the biggest mistake of his life letting me go. I agreed with him. There is huge back story about his now ex wife and family and their (justified) hatred of me that also led to him dumping me, but the buck stopped with him and he just didn't love me enough, no matter what he says. I, however, sap that I am, always loved him, but the damage was so done and so was I. The whole thing really scarred me.

9 years ago I met a man. A lovely, kind, responsible man who I respected and had a deep fondness for. I knew I didn't love him passionately but I knew he would never let me down. Our sex life was never very good, but being in whatever dillusional frame of mind I was at that time, I thought I could live without it and that there was much more to life than sex. I was 31. We eventually married. We did not have sex on our honeymoon. In fact, we very rarely had sex at all. I would never tell anyone or disaparage my husband IRL, but he was unable to perform most of the times we tried. We eventually stopped even trying nearly 4 years ago. We haven't been intimate since. We both decided we'd like a child together, so as I had my own 'wimmins' problems, we used that as our excuse to go for IVF. We were very lucky and successful and we now have one child. It doesn't take a genius to work out the next bit...

Enter original MM. We got back in touch, we met, we slept together 4 months ago. We have now met 9 more times (it would be more but we live a distance apart) and have spoken/text/mailed eachother every day since. And here comes the cliche and I can hear myself, I know what I sound like, a fuckin' stupid idiot, but I love him. And I believe he loves me. We want to be together, properly and just do it right this time. Although, I accept it's been a very shitty start. Shortly after this first meeting, I finally sat with my husband and told him what I should have done months if not years previously, that the marriage was over. I did not tell him about the OM. We are now separated, although we continue to live together until we can find a suitable place for him to move into. We will co-parent our child and we are amicable right now. Probably due, in no small part to the fact that he doesn't know about OM. I know that we would have separated soon, regardless of the OM entering my life again. I was a fool to think otherwise.

OM is in a LTR, however, they are also in separate bedrooms, he tells me. I do believe him, as gullible as that makes me sound. He has told me he will leave in the next 6 months but he wants to make the break as 'gentle' as possible. They have no children together, but she has 2, one of which is a teenager and lives with them. He feels responsibility towards this child as well as wanting to spare his partner as much as possible. I do not agree with his strategy, but it is his plan so I will leave him to do it. We have agreed to have no more meetings and very reduced contact for the coming months until such time as we are free to pursue a legitmate relationship.

God, I do love him but I don't know if I'll ever be able to fully trust him and I'm so worried I'm going to be hurt again. Yet, yet, yet, I can't seem to stop it. What am I even asking for here? From you? I don't know really. A big bucket of wake up and smell the coffee maybe? I'm a fucking mess. Are we completely selfish bastards? Are we wrong for wanting to be together and have some sort of happiness for the rest of our days? Can anyone out there, any of you, see any hope or happiness coming out of this? I'm not a fool, really. I know we're not some modern day Romeo and Juliette, I know there is no such thing as 'soul mates' but if there were, he seems to be mine. He's my lobster... Has anyone had anything similar happen? Maybe you could tell me how it turned out? OK. I'm braced. Thanks for reading.

OP posts:
Waltermittythesequel · 20/01/2016 18:35

I'm not seeing much evidence of self-flagellation, tbh.

Not that you have to punish yourself but don't be disingenuous.

I mean; you're dishonest with your husband, yourself, your friends, perhaps your family...

Maybe MN could be the one place you are actually truthful?

Look, you know you're going to do what you want anyway.

Like I said, these things are always, always the same.

You would think that women would learn from the mistakes of others but no...

Meanwhile, you come here claiming you want advice when what you really want is the approval of strangers on the internet (why?) and sympathy. But you came to a site populated by women who are having this shit done to them on a regular basis.

I'd say that's the attention seeker in you, but that's only a guess.

And no, love, I'm not projecting. I haven't been cheated on.

I've just been on here a long time and trust me when I say your story has been played out countless times.

It rarely ends well and if it's going well, it's not the end.

Funinthesun15 · 20/01/2016 18:37

I'm starting to see what I need to do.

Start by telly your DH you cheated on him!

Funinthesun15 · 20/01/2016 18:38

Oh and no I've not been cheated on so no not projecting.

Christinayangstwistedsista · 20/01/2016 18:39

Walter

Spot on

AnyFucker · 20/01/2016 18:44

Limerance

It ruins lives. It's going to ruin yours, and by extension your child's.

This man is not capable of a grown up relationship. This will end badly.

bialystockandbloom · 20/01/2016 18:44

This has no doubt been said already, but if this man felt about you the way you do about him (ie that you're his soulmate/lobster/THE ONE) he would not have cheated on you before, and he would have spent the last 16 years pining for you as you have done him. He does not love you as you do him.

This isn't about bad timing/circumstances keeping you apart or anything - you two had a chance to make it work when he left his first wife for you. It didn't work then, he cheated on you, and it won't work now, for the same reasons.

I would cut him out forever, look forwards not backwards, focus on yourself and your dc.

ricketytickety · 20/01/2016 18:45

I've been che\ted on and it tears you apart. I have also been in the player trap and that is like a crazy rollercoaster. I don't think you are in the same league as your om. He's proper played you like a pro. I do think your pain is partly guilt at being lowered to his cheating level. Just step away before anyone else gets hurt, including you. I'm going to add that a hsppy home needs trust and stability and no sex is better than crazy player shit messing wth your head.

AnotherFineMess16 · 20/01/2016 18:45

That's pretty much the crux of it, isn't it? Can I ever, ever trust this man? It's a damn near unanimous, NO. And that's what I now have to deal with.

Maybe it's just like Waltermitty said, these things always play out and end the same. Maybe it's time I thought long and hard about that and realised that no, I'm not special to him. He may be to me, but it doesn't mean I am to am, regardless what he says.

That's it. Love isn't what you say, it's what you do. So, if, when the 6 months have passed and he's here and he's single and he wants to be with me... And people can naysay all they want, but I strongly, strongly believe he will... what do I do? Give him the chance or just pull the pin now?

I'll be thinking hard on that tonight.

OP posts:
CheersMedea · 20/01/2016 18:46

You would think that women would learn from the mistakes of others but no...

No one ever does though WalterMitty. Parents tell children; the children don't listen and have to find out for themselves. It's the same all over the world.

When emotions and sex are involved, I honestly believe people will do what they want to do. There is no telling them. There are tons of threads like this on MN - literal car crash threads- where the ending is clear as day to everyone except the OP blinded by her "love" for the bastard in her particular tale.

It's sad that the lessons don't get learned from but there you go.

AnotherFineMess16 · 20/01/2016 18:47

AF - I've done a lot of reading on limerance. Something I'd never heard about before hanging out and reading here. But yes, it's something I've suspected I'm experiencing. It's fucking awful.

OP posts:
Christinayangstwistedsista · 20/01/2016 18:47

No, the crux of the matter is why the fuck would you ever put yourself in this position

Jux · 20/01/2016 18:49

If this is true, a big fat 'if', then you are both liars, both deceitful, both self-delusional, both self-indulgent, both dishonest.

You should both be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves, but you're not.
You should both be disgusted by the behaviour of the other, but you're not.
In fact, you're both revolting human beings, and if there was a chance in hell that you'd stay together abd be faithful to each other, I'd be really pushing to get you both off the streets so no one else ever has a relationship with either of you.

If you really want redemption (you don't) you'd tell your poor h the whole truth and leave immediately with a bag of clothes and nothing else, but you won't. If you ever told him, you'd hang about like wet spaghetti oretending you want forgiveness from him and pretending that you love him and that you love your children despite blighting their lives by your continued presence.

I've reported your thread as I don't actually believe any of this is true, but just on the offchance that it is, you now know what you and your shitty boyfriend are.

AnotherFineMess16 · 20/01/2016 18:49

Why indeed Christina, why indeed. It's something else I've taken from this today. What's wrong with me? I need to spend time and do some work on that too.

OP posts:
Jux · 20/01/2016 18:50

I haven't been cheated on either, btw.

AnotherFineMess16 · 20/01/2016 18:51

Jux - why the hell would I tell my stbxh? We are finished. And why would you report my thread? Weird, very weird. If you don't like it or believe it or whatever, just walk on by. Jesus.

OP posts:
CheersMedea · 20/01/2016 18:52

but I strongly, strongly believe he will...

Fine. Come back and post on this thread on 20th July 2016. I wager he won't have left of his own accord to be with you. He'll still be all "I need another 6 months to break it to her gently". He doesn't need to leave her to sleep with you as he well knows. And he's known it twice in his life - fully reinforced.

As that awful phrase goes why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?

AnyFucker · 20/01/2016 18:54

Yes, it's fucking awful

And you are fucking up your (one precious) life because of it

No one man is worth that. Not even this serial cheater with the Golden Cock. When the lustre starts to wear off (both the cock and off you ) his eyes will wander again. Imagine being stuck with the embarassing 60yo still going after OW but getting less and less successful. Will you stand indulgently by, knowing that you knew exactly what you got yourself into but too invested to call time ?

Funinthesun15 · 20/01/2016 18:54

Jux - why the hell would I tell my stbxh?

Because you committed adultery whilst you were married, before you split up.

You cheated on him.

You had an affair.

You slept with OM whilst still with your DH.

Any other way you'd like me to put it?

Shutthatdoor · 20/01/2016 18:55

why the hell would I tell my stbxh?

Because you cheated on him.

It isn't just OM that is an adulterer. You are too.

He deserves to know.

Jux · 20/01/2016 18:57

Because he deserves to know the truth of his relationship with you, and you deserve to take whatever consequences come from that.

But only a truly self-deceiving dishonest perseon would even need to ask that question.

AnotherFineMess16 · 20/01/2016 19:02

I'm sorry, but I don't understand that. I've already explained in more detail than I've ever gone into previoulsy as to why our marriage dead. Shit, it was barely consumated. Now why would I rub his nose in it? For what? To make him feel worse? The real reasons, which he accepts for the end of our marriage, are as stated. The OM/symptom, is of no relevance. And if that makes me self-deceiving, so be it. I can honestly say, no good would come of telling him about me having sex with someone else.

OP posts:
DoJo · 20/01/2016 19:04

Shouldn't the question be 'how can I make the breakdown of my marriage as easy for my child as possible?'. Why is the timescale for decision making all about your relationship (such as it is) with this man?

Instead of setting a time scale based on 'no contact' with him before making a decision, why not frame it as dedicating yourself to being there for your daughter, to meeting her needs in every way you can in the wake of your separation from her father, in devoting yourself to ensuring that you are making her feel as secure and loved and happy as possible without wasting emotional energy on worrying about what direction your next relationship decision is going to take.

If you and this man want to give it another go then it shouldn't be based on some artificial time limit that you have imposed on yourselves, it should be based on when you think you will be able to expend emotions on someone other than your daughter without it having a negative impact on her.

Thinking about him, worrying about whether he can be faithful, wondering what your lives together could be like will all be using up headspace which you could (and IMO should) be using to focus on your daughter, on her needs, on what your lives together will be like. Sorting out shared care, ensuring that you have both the practical and emotional considerations taken care of (as much as is possible) and helping her to adjust to her new life will all take six months and more to get onto an even keel, and I don't think you should even be considering pursuing any other relationship until you can honestly say to yourself that you have given her everything in your power to make her feel happy. I don't see how that can be possible under the current circumstances if your description of your current emotional state is accurate, and if ditching the idea of being with this man is what it takes, then that's what you have to do.

SagaNorensLeatherTrousers · 20/01/2016 19:04

But OP said your relationship is amicable right now, but wouldn't be if he knew about the OM. Why is that?

ricketytickety · 20/01/2016 19:06

I would say that the only way he would be single in 6 months is if his wife finds out about you (and possibly other women) and she kicks him out. There is no way he will tell you that is why he is single. He will want to keep the upper hand and tell you he has left her for you. Straight up that is what I honestly think. So no, I would not give him a chance then.

It is going to be hard for you to give up on this feeling, but you are not in love with him. You are in love with an idea that he has helped create but his actions show you he is a very different man.

AF hit the nail on the head with limerance. I have felt this and know exactly what you are feeling now. It's probably why you are writing about your feelings towards him in a slightly romantic, poetic way. It feels like a kind of madness. But you can come out the other side intact and with your head held high. You just need to say 'no more'.

Being single after all this will be good for you - you can settle back into yourself and love you for who you are, not your mistakes/want of an unatainable man. When you are ready, kind, honest, good men can be the best lovers because they give you pleasure for you and not to feed their ego. And they make amazing step-fathers. Or stay single and carefree - you will get to choose without feeling desperate for someone's love.

Jux · 20/01/2016 19:06

No, I don't expect you do understand it, the currency being honesty.

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