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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

It's long, I'm so in the wrong, but I'm in a mess and need a place to talk...

424 replies

AnotherFineMess16 · 20/01/2016 15:34

... if you could see your way fit to let me and reach a hand into the flames that I suspect are about to engulf me. I'm ready.

Nobody knows any of this. Some people know some things, but nobody knows it all apart from me and him. I suppose I'm at the point now I need an outside, objective opinion from somebody who, yes, might judge, but will do so from a place of fairness and neutrality (I hope). I thank you in advance.

16 years ago, I embarked on an 2 year long affair. He was married, I was single. I was 24, he was 30. Yes, there were kids involved, I know it was wrong, but I did it. I have no excuses, unless love/infatuation/lust is one. There is no other. It was wrong, we were wrong, I knew it, he knew it, yet we did it. There is nothing I can do to change that now. Long story short, he left his then wife and we were together. About a year afterwards, he dumped me from a great height. Completely out of the blue and it devastated me. "Karma" I hear you cry? Maybe so, I don't believe in it particularly, but this was certainly payback. A couple of months later, he came to me to tell me that he had gotten another girl pregnant. The dates suggest that she was impregnated either very close to the end of our relationship or just before. I have never had the stomach to ask too many questions, we were over anyway and I was already in a very, very dark place and physically and mentally could not cope with any more at this point. I'm not exaggerating when I tell you that I was in pieces. He wanted me back several times thereafter, but I couldn't and wouldn't. And, as it does, life moved on and so did I eventually. We stayed in touch throughout the years. The odd text, mail or (drunken) phone call. Ashamed to say there were a few nights together in there too. He would always tell me he made the biggest mistake of his life letting me go. I agreed with him. There is huge back story about his now ex wife and family and their (justified) hatred of me that also led to him dumping me, but the buck stopped with him and he just didn't love me enough, no matter what he says. I, however, sap that I am, always loved him, but the damage was so done and so was I. The whole thing really scarred me.

9 years ago I met a man. A lovely, kind, responsible man who I respected and had a deep fondness for. I knew I didn't love him passionately but I knew he would never let me down. Our sex life was never very good, but being in whatever dillusional frame of mind I was at that time, I thought I could live without it and that there was much more to life than sex. I was 31. We eventually married. We did not have sex on our honeymoon. In fact, we very rarely had sex at all. I would never tell anyone or disaparage my husband IRL, but he was unable to perform most of the times we tried. We eventually stopped even trying nearly 4 years ago. We haven't been intimate since. We both decided we'd like a child together, so as I had my own 'wimmins' problems, we used that as our excuse to go for IVF. We were very lucky and successful and we now have one child. It doesn't take a genius to work out the next bit...

Enter original MM. We got back in touch, we met, we slept together 4 months ago. We have now met 9 more times (it would be more but we live a distance apart) and have spoken/text/mailed eachother every day since. And here comes the cliche and I can hear myself, I know what I sound like, a fuckin' stupid idiot, but I love him. And I believe he loves me. We want to be together, properly and just do it right this time. Although, I accept it's been a very shitty start. Shortly after this first meeting, I finally sat with my husband and told him what I should have done months if not years previously, that the marriage was over. I did not tell him about the OM. We are now separated, although we continue to live together until we can find a suitable place for him to move into. We will co-parent our child and we are amicable right now. Probably due, in no small part to the fact that he doesn't know about OM. I know that we would have separated soon, regardless of the OM entering my life again. I was a fool to think otherwise.

OM is in a LTR, however, they are also in separate bedrooms, he tells me. I do believe him, as gullible as that makes me sound. He has told me he will leave in the next 6 months but he wants to make the break as 'gentle' as possible. They have no children together, but she has 2, one of which is a teenager and lives with them. He feels responsibility towards this child as well as wanting to spare his partner as much as possible. I do not agree with his strategy, but it is his plan so I will leave him to do it. We have agreed to have no more meetings and very reduced contact for the coming months until such time as we are free to pursue a legitmate relationship.

God, I do love him but I don't know if I'll ever be able to fully trust him and I'm so worried I'm going to be hurt again. Yet, yet, yet, I can't seem to stop it. What am I even asking for here? From you? I don't know really. A big bucket of wake up and smell the coffee maybe? I'm a fucking mess. Are we completely selfish bastards? Are we wrong for wanting to be together and have some sort of happiness for the rest of our days? Can anyone out there, any of you, see any hope or happiness coming out of this? I'm not a fool, really. I know we're not some modern day Romeo and Juliette, I know there is no such thing as 'soul mates' but if there were, he seems to be mine. He's my lobster... Has anyone had anything similar happen? Maybe you could tell me how it turned out? OK. I'm braced. Thanks for reading.

OP posts:
19lottie82 · 20/01/2016 20:13

OP if this was a generation down the line and your daughter was in this exact scenario, and came to your for advice...... What would you say to her? There's your answer.

You need to listen to your head over your heart on this one, otherwise things will end up even worse.

shazzarooney99 · 20/01/2016 20:13

Hes having his cake and eating it again and he will carry on doing it because you will forgive him.

Gobbolino6 · 20/01/2016 20:13

Exactly OP.

winkywinkola · 20/01/2016 20:19

Do you feel guilty about cheating on your stbxh? Poor bugger getting entangled with a cheating liar.

Did your lobster suggest waiting for six months and cutting contact or did you? Who suggested it?

Why are you waiting for six months to see if he wants you? That's what is happening here. Six months of your whole life. Gosh. What a waste of time.

You're simply waiting around again for this man who really seems to have no feelings for anyone but his own penis.

He may decide he wants to shag you again in six months. He may decide that actually you're far to willing and easy a doormat to be of any more interest.

You and all those other women (and children) he's devastated really struck gold there, didn't you?

Why don't you start again? Alone and fresh. No entanglements with married men. No causing hurt and damage to anyone.

Give yourself a little code to live and love by and make sure that your next partner meets your criteria which includes good sex.

Waltermittythesequel · 20/01/2016 20:20

I know one thing though, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it isn't a fucking lobster ;)

I quite like that. Maybe you have a chick lit novel in you, after all.

Bellyrub1980 · 20/01/2016 20:21

I've not read any other replies so as not to taint my opinion from your original post. Forgive me if the situation has changed since.

I think you should try to stay away from this man. He sounds toxic. I don't like him.

Cinnamon2013 · 20/01/2016 20:27

I haven't read the full thread, but have seen your latest update. It sounds like you are being v meet open to advice and that's really positive. I think I can imagine how hard it must be feeling pulled in two directions like this. You always have a choice, though. Fwiw I don't judge you at all on the affair situation, life is complicated sometimes. And a sexless marriage is no way to live.

I do, however, wonder about your child, and why they merit less than a line in your OP. Surely what's best for them should be featuring in your thinking here somewhere?

coffeeisnectar · 20/01/2016 20:27

I don't see what telling your dh would achieve apart from a messy split which will affect your child and as things should remain amicable for her, I don't feel he should be told.

As for this man.

He will still be sleeping with his partner.

He won't be using the six months to sort himself out. He will be waiting until you are on your own and ready so he can move in with you.

If he does get his own place and you don't want your dd involved then you will see him only 2-3 nights a week at most. Won't you worry about what he's doing on the rest of those nights?

And if he has his kids over and its the only night you have free you could end up barely seeing him.

The lack of trust is going to be a massive issue. He doesn't sound like a man who has lived alone and single but someone who overlaps relationships and moves straight into the next woman's house.

I would hope that in six months with some counselling you might want more for yourself than this. A man who you love, enjoy sex with and you trust. A man who is everything this other man isn't. A decent role model for your dd.

I really do think a year or two on your own would make you realise that you don't need a man and certainly not any man, not a man you will always worry is cheating but that you are happy on your own. And then is when you will be ready to find someone new, someone right for you and worthy of you.

I actually feel sorry for you effectively wasting years on this serial cheat. He's the one that got away, the one that never was. He's actually not worth it.

Ambroxide · 20/01/2016 20:28

He's a shit. I had a relationship with a man like this once. He kept me dangling for years. He ruined one relationship that I had and very nearly fucked up another beyond repair. Fortunately I came to my senses and kicked him out of my life. I am still peripherally in contact with him through mutual friends and he is still careering round the world fucking women up right, left and centre. He's a cunt and I was stupid to ever get involved with him. Don't be stupid, OP. You don't have to be. Just stop.

CheersMedea · 20/01/2016 20:29

AnotherFineMess

Above someone wrote:

What sort of role model will he be for your daughter op? Is he kind, caring, loving, thoughtful, faithful and honest? The attributes you would hope she will one day choose for her future partner

Ask yourself this:

if your daughter came to you in future with this sorry tale, in exactly the same position as you and she had a little girl too, what would you advise her?

I bet your heart would break at the thought that your lovely little girl who deserved the world and someone to truly love who truly loved her was thinking of throwing her life away for a cheating tosser like this.

Ask yourself this:

what would my mother say if I told her this full story and asked for her advice?

Samaritan1 · 20/01/2016 20:29

He's a narcissist. Classic behaviour.

Please look this up and read as much as you can about the topic and the scales will soon drop from your eyes.

You need to talk to a counsellor asap. Be totally honest with them and they will help you find a path forward. Good luck.

Valentine2 · 20/01/2016 20:31

I feel so so sorry for the children involved from all sides. You should really really focus on your DC right now as you have seen yourself that you are prone to very big mistakes and really need to get your act together as now a child is involved.

choceclair123 · 20/01/2016 20:31

I've got a headache

bakeoffcake · 20/01/2016 20:32

"I'm trying to decide what I want"

You have said the you're taking six months to work things out so why are you wanting to make a decision now?Confused

ohtheholidays · 20/01/2016 20:32

OP I'm related to a man like the one you had the affair with.He's now on his 3rd marriage and in every single marriage he's been in he's cheated,any relationship that's lasted more than a few months he's cheated.

He's had children from two of the marriages and his behaviour has caused alot of long term problems for his children and his stepchild.
All of his children are adults now and they've all gone on to have disastrous relationships all 6 of them have come very close to marriage(lots of money spent and places booked)and then it's all fell through at the very last minute in part because of they're own behaviour and in part because of they're partners behaviours,they all seem to be attracted to the worst people possible.

Nearly all of them have children now and they're being dragged through the same things as they were by they're Fathers lack of commitment.

Nearly all of his family are NC with him now as were all done,it's just to exhausting to be apart of anymore.

I think sadly some people just aren't right for a serious relationship and like my relative I think the man you fell for is just the same.

I'd take some time out and just concentrate on yourself and your LO,that's what I did,I decided to end a bad relationship,I became a single Mum and just concentrated on my DC and myself.It was the best thing I ever did for us all.
I had breathing space to learn more about myself and what I needed and wanted and 3 years later I met my now DH and we've been together for just over 10 years now and were doing well.

It was definitely worth the wait. Smile

JeNeSaisQoui · 20/01/2016 20:44

OP 'yeah it's the old leopard and their spots isn't it? I really wanted it to be a case that he could and would change for me. Now, I'm not so sure. All these women can't be wrong.'

Since I can't see anyone else commenting on it, may I just say halla-fucking-lullah vis the above? Genuinely, thank fuck for that and you're right - 'all these women can't be wrong'

Whilst I don't condone what you have done, I don't believe my posts - or many many others - were judgemental at all; and I reckon to a large degree that's because it has been so patently obvious right from the get-go, then multiplied by your subsequent posts, that you really were someone in the grip of a fantasy and what you needed was a reality check & advice vis counselling (as opposed to what I suspect would have been the much more judgemental posts that would have come in response to the same situation but without the delusional and self-worth issues coming across).

I really really hope that when you read through the thread again, that your sentiment at top of this post are only strengthened. You deserve more than being someone's bit on the side, or hanging around for something which - if it does even happen - will only end with you being cheated on yourself and DD's life being upended again.

I think MN is fucking awesome as I'm guessing there's nowhere else you could offer the WHOLE story AND then get a thumping 250ish out of 263 messages all essentially saying the same thing; and I suspect you really needed that kind of collective clout to help shake you out of this.

Fontella · 20/01/2016 20:46

I don't know if you're missing posts or misunderstanding things but my marriage was dead, done, over, finished a long time before I slept with the OM. He was a symptom.

He was a symptom? That's bollocks and you know it.

You ended your marriage AFTER you shagged the serial cheat, and you have lied by omission to your husband ever since. You even admit in your OP that the relationship is 'amicable' because 'he doesn't know about OM'.

Like I said earlier - your moral compass is skewed, and you lie to suit your own agenda. Not out of any real concern for your husband. You see things from the perspective of your 'normal' and that is a very different perspective from most of those responding to this thread.

Funinthesun15 · 20/01/2016 20:51

You ended your marriage AFTER you shagged the serial cheat, and you have lied by omission to your husband ever since. You even admit in your OP that the relationship is 'amicable' because 'he doesn't know about OM'

I agree.

The OM wasn't a 'symptom' at all. Stop kidding yourself.

Start

Blu · 20/01/2016 20:53

OP:
The problem with the 6 month moratorium to sort your shit out etc is that it is NOT 'time alone' to figure out who you are and what you want. It is 'waiting time' for him to leave is LTR and come racing back into your arms n his big white charger.

The way this comes across is that you may not be enjoying it, but you do come across as feeding on it. There are no 'flames' to 'engulf you' , etc.

You are ending your marriage: the right thing to do.
You need to spend some time learning to be by yourself as you come out of that marriage.
You can spend some time in counselling - that would be a really good idea.
The, if he really loves you, has left his LTR, has waited, you can consider whether you wish to be in contact.

No need for all this panic now.

What happened with the woman he left you for? Where is her baby?

Calm down, concentrate on leaving your marriage, looking after your DD and making sure she is secure, concentrate on settling her into a routine of seeing her Dad. That is enough emotional work to be going on with. Next stage, later.

beesandknees · 20/01/2016 20:54

OP read all the articles in this section of this website:

www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/category/mr-unavailable/

You should also read these:

www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/why-affairs-are-like-being-double-crossed-in-a-heist/

www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/theyre-just-not-that-special-and-why-putting-people-on-pedestals-makes-them-think-they-can-do-better-than-you/

www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/theres-no-such-thing-as-an-honest-cheat-and-other-thoughts-on-cheating/

www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/understanding-why-someone-fakes-a-future-with-you/

You are in deep shit and need therapy. You lust after an unavailable man because that feels safer than really being loved and respected. Get yourself sorted or your daughter is going to end up just like you.

ADishBestEatenCold · 20/01/2016 20:55

"I just really, really don't get the point of telling my stbxh any of this."

Because when it comes to the dissolution of your marriage, he will require all the information in order to make informed decisions for his part in his own and his DD's future.

For example, without this information he might (for various reasons) agree to you having residency/custody of your daughter; might agree to you retaining the marital home; etc etc. However if he ^knows% that his STBExW is a cheat, a liar and a manipulator, he might decide that it's not in his child's best interest for you to be her parent with primary custody. He may want 50/50, or even primary custody, in those circumstances. He may decide that you should be the one to move out.

And so on.

AnyFucker · 20/01/2016 20:59

That putting people on pedestals piece is bloody brilliant

AnchorDownDeepBreath · 20/01/2016 21:02

He cheated on his wife to shag you.
He cheated on you to shag another.
He is cheating on his current partner to shag you.
I'm seeing a pattern.

Read this whenever you feel yourself wanting to talk to him. Remember what comes next. It will hurt. You will have chosen it.

LovelyFriend · 20/01/2016 21:03

Lobsters are a fiver at Lidl these days

GiddyGiddyGoat · 20/01/2016 21:08

I couldn't bear to read the whole thread.. but really? Really? I think you are seriously deluded and behaving like an addict - turning a sordid mistaken dependency into some sort of Hollyoaks style drama. I feel sorry for you and sorrier still for your dc (and his). How about being on your own, finding out something about what has attracted you to this cunt of a man and doing some hard work to avoid making more terrible life choices. I think you should consider no contact WHATSOEVER while you have some therapy. What would you say to a friend who told you this tale of woe and drama? What would you say to a daughter? I can't help but feel there is something about the adreneline and rollercoaster drama of it all that excites you.

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