It's not looking good is it?

[Saggingninja]

Have NC for this. I'll try not to drip feed.

Been together for fifteen years. I have a DD from a previous marriage.

We don't live together, partly because my previous marriage was very bad and I wanted to make a secure home for myself and my daughter. I then met my DP a few years later. He has three grown children and has always been a very good stepfather to my daughter. He often comes to stay with me and when my daughter stays with her dad (who lives nearby) I stay with him. It suits us both.

While staying with DP for Christmas, I noticed a card from a mutual female friend of ours (let's call her Helen) - very flirty and clearly referring to a hotel along the lines of 'don't go there again'. The word 'again' has stuck in my mind. I asked him what this meant and he said 'no idea'. He then said the card was 'years old'. I couldn't remember seeing that card before but I had nowhere to put this information so even though I was disturbed by it, I let it go. Then later that day when I was home, I received an email from Helen, hoping I'd had a great Christmas and chatting about seeing an actress friend of hers in a play, in a regional theatre, a few hours from where she (Helen) lives. My heart began crashing because the location of the theatre was on the train route which went past this hotel that my DP had 'no idea' about. The three weeks during which the play was on (so the time that my DP and Helen might have seen each other) I didn't see DP at all because I was so busy. And I knew that train route so well because I used to use that train route all the time when visiting my mother in hospital.

Helen and I have been close for several years. I'm fond of her husband and her teenage children. I love her company and I can't bear to think she might have betrayed me.

Putting the email and the card together put my friend and my DP together. I knew it was all circumstantial but my instincts were telling me something was up. DP said he had phoned Helen and (surprise) she couldn't remember making this reference to this hotel either. Surely I couldn't believe that 'he or she would betray me like this' etc etc.

I rang the hotel but neither of their names was on the hotel's list going back the whole of that year.

Not wanting to snoop (and to be honest it would be difficult because we don't live together) I asked him for access to his phone records which would reassure me. He texted that he would two days ago. I've heard nothing since.

I've heard nothing from Helen either although DP says he has spoken to her on the phone. If DP suspected me and I had the means to prove my innocence I would want to end his distress asap and hand over my phone records like a shot. He hasn't which says he has something to hide. Either that or he is angry with me for 'questioning' him and is punishing me. But that would be such a shitty thing to do.

Oh an his previous marriage ended when he had an affair with a friend of his (then) wife.

Please help. I'm feeling blank and physically cold. The script as I understand it is deny deny, then when you can't deny any more, minimise. We're still on denial.

[goddessofsmallthings]

I was desperately hoping that your instincts were wrong, ninja, but of course it's rarely the case that fearing or feeling that a partner is cheating can be ascribed to paranoia.

It would not be spiteful to tell the cuckolded husband that his dw has been playing away with your dp as he does deserve to know and it would be far better coming from you as he, and you too, may already be the subject of speculation if the cheating pair have been observed by others in your joint or respective social circles.

You now have a great deal to think about, but I would urge you to spare a thought for him as the truth always wills out and being the last to know is not an enviable state in matters of this nature.

I'm so sorry you became emotionally invested in a man who's got the morals of an alleycat and valued your friendship with a woman of the same ilk. They've humiliated themselves by their shameful and deceitful behaviour and
fully deserve to be shown up for what they are.

Fwiw, I think it highly unlikely that they engaged in a one-off shagfest liaison and it's probable that their affair has been ongoing until this moment in time and, if you don't tell her dh, may continue unabated.

What a pair of morally bankrupt cockroaches they are! They deserve each other.

[inlectorecumbit]

Remember OP when you talk on Friday that this is one (massive) but you are also questioning other events in the past. This may not be the only time he has cheated and l think you are starting to realise that.

[Elendon]

Saggingninja He's a liar and a cheat. He knew your past and decided you'd do. However, he got it wrong, hence his response that he wants you still.

I have only one word of advice to you. Dump.

You are a very astute woman.

[Binders1]

Saggingninja - I'm so sorry you are going through this. I recently found out my exp had been having an affair with OW throughout our 14 year relationship, who was his long term friend, married with 2 dc's and both our families used to meet for lunches and dinner.

I ended it immediately (didn't see the point in asking questions, they can spin whatever story they want afterall) and I did tell her husband after much deliberation, not for malice or revenge and he was grateful. (Turns out she had been unfaithful before).

You have good support here, lean on them and listen to their advice/opinions and words. The conversation I had with OW husband were words that came directly from another poster and it was only when I saw them I knew they were right for me. The words I used to explain mummy and daddy weren't going to be together anymore, again massively helped by many posters.

The people on MN got me through the worse part - don't know what I would have done without them and yes, it's still pretty shit but I'm doing the best I can. Oh.. and RL support is imperative if you have it. My decision was very clear to me to the moment I found out but you need to make the decision that is right for you.

[SpecialistSnowflake]

Hi Binders, I was actually thinking of you when reading this thread! I hope all is well with you now

[Goingtobeawesome]

Im so sorry your instincts proved you right. When people have nothing to hide they would hand over their phone records. Reassuring a loved one who is feeling insecure is the right thing to do.

The chances are it was more than a one night stand or they planned for it to be.

Think about what you want now. Think about what he needs to do and say to make that happen. Decide on the bare minimum you want from him and what is a deal breaker. You could call him now and tell him it is over. You owe him nothing.

If you want to move on and stay with him then you could give him one chance to tell you everything and then you can move on. Of course you don't have to mean it and you can still change your mind but you have to be devious and think of yourself now. Not worry about his feelings.

[bjrce]

Op.
Your gut instinct was spot on. I think it's highly unlikely it was a ons. Or based on his history that this was the first time either.
They always "cry" how much they love you when they're found out.
I think your " friend" is one sneaky bitch with no conscience. Imagine having the check to mail you and knowing what she was up to with your partner. Its like she was goading you and her knowing her little "secret". Ffs!
I would have to let her know, I found out everything. What you do in relation to her husband is your own business.

[Joysmum]

As you said, this admission is probably the attempt to minimise a full blown affair.

Bloody good job you asked for the phone records to force the issue.

[whoreandpeace]

OP - are you okay? Cannot stop thinking about you and how sick and dizzy you must be feeling. I really hope you manage some sleep tonight - you will need all your strength. Odfod's post was full of good advice. Look after yourself - your DD needs you.

[Saggingninja]

Oh my God Binders I'm so sorry. I can truly say that I understand how awful it must have been. xx

[Saggingninja]

Whoreandpeace thank you for your kind words. I keep expecting to feel overwhelmed with grief and horror, but it (sort of) helps that I've got a lot of work on. Also my DD seems to know that something is up and keeps offering me tea and cuddles.

I may feel like ten tons of shit in a five ton sack tomorrow though.

Odfod some great practical advice. Thank you.

I think I'm keeping it all together till I see him on Friday.

[goddessofsmallthings]

Waving to Binders - the words I wrote had immediate resonance for you because they were ones that would have come to you in time, but of course at the time you were reeling with the shock of discovering your now ex-p's long standing duplicity in continuing to have sexual encounters with a woman he'd known prior to meeting you.

I know that phoning the dh in question was one of the hardest calls you've had to make. Binders, but, as I recall, he was fulsome in his praise of your courage and greatly appreciated the fact that he hadn't been left in ignorance of what his dw had been getting up to on the sly, and more especially as it emerged that your ex wasn't the only one she'd done the dirty with.

As anyone who's been in that particular situation can affirm, being the last to know is mortifying and being aware that others knew, and may have known for some considerable time, but didn't see fit to tell the betrayed partner/spouse only serves to rub salt into an already painful wound.

In effect it's a double betrayal because we look to our friends to be honest with us and discovering that we may unknowingly have been pitied by them is humiliating in the extreme.

[inlectorecumbit]

can l ask how old your DD is, if as your OP says you have been together 15 years and your DD is from a previous relationship she must be a late teenager, she will obviously know something is up, can you even tell her a wee bit about why you are so upset , even that you have had an argument, she doesnt need to know all the details

[53rdAndBird]

Pretty awful that he told you this over the phone rather than in person, too. What a sod.

It sounds like your instincts have been more trustworthy than he has, so far. I would believe them over him if you sense he's minimising the scale of this. But either way, it is an awful, awful thing to go through, and they have both been really cruel to you. I'm so sorry

[RivieraKid]

He called you to tell you about his 'ons' and have a self-pitying sob over being found out?

Wow.

[ImperialBlether]

OP, have you heard of hysterical bonding? You need to be aware of that before you see him on Friday. There's a Mumsnet thread here but you can Google it, too, as it's mentioned on a lot of sites.

There's also a useful thread here about what happens after hysterical bonding.

Btw, does anyone know whether Cogito is still around? She used to give some great advice.

[franklyidontgiveadamscarlet]

OP can I say its up to you if you want to stay with him but if he says to you lets get counseling for this problem or its your fault.
I would think no amount of counseling will stop a wandering dick.
He has form for this and will always to it.
And he was quite happy not to live with you after all these years.
I know that is what you wanted but even still he was most happy with this arrangement.
He never complained about it.
And you did nothing wrong but trust this man.

[franklyidontgiveadamscarlet]

"do it"
Dam sore eyes as not enough sleep lately

[CantGetYouOutOfMyHead]

Helen did not expect you to see the card. She sent it to his address and assumed he would tuck it away in a book. If would remain a lovely secret, a flirty aide-memoire.

Helen attempted to keep you onside, unsuspecting, by sending you the chatty email.

Your P didn't mean to let the cat out of the bag.

This was a secret you were never to be told.

Bin. Both.

I wouldn't let him in the door on Friday. What can he say that will make this right?

and courage.

[Cachareltastic]

Onwards and upwards

[Binders1]

Thank you Saggingninja and Snowflake for your messages.

Goddess - thank you also for your words. You are right it was definitely the right thing to do but you gave me the confidence in the words to use to make sure it was done properly and as we know it is what he would have wanted me to do. Your posts helped me greatly - thank you.

Saggingninja - I hope you manage to get a good night's sleep. I think it's an advantage that he doesn't live with you as it gives you the space particularly at the moment to think things through in your own mind. You will be in my thoughts. Make sure you look after you. x

[Marryoneorbecomeone]

Gosh OP I just saw your update! Ghastly! Sending you my very best wishes X X X

[Saggingninja]

Imperial I hadn't heard of Hysterical Bonding, but now I've read up on it I'm mentally armed. It makes sense. You see - the love is still there - all swirled into a toxic Mr Whippy of rage, betrayal and topped off with the flake of humiliation. And he really can talk the talk - he'll be crying, begging and trying to shag me all at once.

Inlect my girl is 16 so I told her why I was upset. She was sad as she really liked him - but she has a rl father who she sees a lot and she did say she understood why I worked so hard and stayed independent, 'so you don't have to stay in a bad relationship like my friend X's mum.' Thanks for your advice.

Binders - I'm sorry for all you've been through but reading your threads shows me you can get through it. I hope you are happy now.

Unfortunately - sorry self pity alert - I got up this morning, glanced at myself in the mirror and started crying again - I'm 46 - who will love me now. But made DD breakfast, showered, getting in some work before going out later - going to treat myself to a good haircut so I can meet him tomorrow feeling more confident.

More importantly, I will make a list of the things I need to say.

Thanks again mumsnetters. The help and support is invaluable.

[hellsbellsmelons]

Well you've listed the scrip of what come next anyway.
He will cry and beg and expect you to feel sorry for him.
So many of us comfort these arseholes who would still be doing it if they hadn't been caught. The tears are to manipulate and nothing more. To get your sympathy.
I'll bet he doesn't once ask how are you feeling on what you need to know etc.....
When he starts with the tears ask him why on earth HE is crying?
You are the one who has been betrayed and cheated on. Shouldn't he be comforting you?
I remember being hysterical the first time I saw my Ex after I'd found out.
I'd cried the entire plane journey over and when I saw him, I basically freaked out.
Like you, it was a 15 year relationship and by god it hurts. It's hard to describe really. But I wish I hadn't been so hysterical. I wish I'd have kept my dignity. But hey, feelings over take and it never goes according to plan.

I'd want to know about the note that fell out of the book and I'd be asking him to make sure he brings the phone records you asked to see.

I did the haircut thing and it does make you feel better.

I got together properly with my OH at the age of 44 so please don't despair. There are plenty of people in exactly the same position as you are right now and you will find someone who wants you.
Who wouldn't? You sound awesome!

I wouldn't let him in the house tomorrow either.
I'd ask to meet somewhere neutral and public so he can't try to manipulate with tears and hysterics.
You've got your head screwed on, you'll do fine.